There's Levels to this...

[TheGoodDoctor]

So I was just thinking about the teams that are left and really now more than ever does this final 4 show how there are different levels to this....game. It shows us what is required to be a championship calibre team, how far we have to go and what we all know is the real missing factor here. Just look at the core of how it works...



Championship Calibre: a true superstar and 2 complimentary all-stars Curry with Klay & Draymond, LBJ with Kyrie & Love
Contender: 2 superstars but no real 3 all star who brings it all together (KD & Beastbrook)
Pretender: 2 complimentary all-stars (DD & KL), no superstar that brings it all together



Now course over some will throw out Shaq & Kobe but unless you're talking 2 top 10 players all time it's generally not the case to get around it. Even the majority of SAS championships came when Duncan was the superstar and Manu & Parker were the all-stars, the brilliance of Pops coaching and addition of Kawhi had offset what step Duncan had lost but for the most part there's generally a trinity of star players with a superstar at the core ie/ MJ + Pippen and Rodman or Grant, LBJ plus Wade/Bosh, Garnett plus Paul & Allen. Right now we got the 2 complimentary all-stars and they're probably not even as good as the other teams complimentary duos which is probably offset by our depth.

Unfortunately I'm not sure there's any light at the end of tunnel in this rant but really it just further highlights to me that we're going to need at minimum to ADD a Paul George and more so a Kevin Durant to what we have if we want to be a true contender that has realistic championship aspirations. Adding a PG or KD without offsetting the loss of say DD or even bringing in a Cousins type of player will most likely not be enough to really get the Larry O'Brien trophy. Masai is going to need to work some miracle or start re-strategizing for a new 5 year plan.

[LLJ]

A lot of it is just lucking out on a superstar and going from there. Unfortunately there's a better chance we take a step back and don't see the ECF again for another 15 years than there is at making a championship leap. And sometimes through no actual fault of this organization either. There's a lot of luck involved in this sport when it comes to landing the right players.

Basketball is an unfair sport where any team that doesn't have a superstar has almost a less than 1% chance at a title. Unfortunately, there are only about 5 or 6 true superstars in any given NBA season, and even then only about 3 or 4 of them have a real shot at a title. People cite the Spurs and 04 Pistons but those models just aren't easy to do either.

Being a good franchise is about drafting well, making good use of assets and then grabbing/lucking out on a superstar when the moment presents itself.

[KL78192020]

Wow you just figured this out now. Breaking news team needs superstars to win it all!!

[TheGoodDoctor]

Wow you just figured this out now. Breaking news team needs superstars to win it all!!

It's not just superstars, genius...hence why even though OKC may have the 2 most talented superstars together they're not considered the actual championship calibre team. Learn to read and you'll see the point was more than just superstars but how it's constructed but thanks for coming out champ.

[jonny three time]

Wow you just figured this out now. Breaking news team needs superstars to win it all!!

It's not just superstars, genius...hence why even though OKC may have the 2 most talented superstars together they're not considered the actual championship calibre team. Learn to read and you'll see the point was more than just superstars but how it's constructed but thanks for coming out champ.

He's not wrong though genius. All OKC has/had to do was tweak the guys around KD and Westbrook to find the right fits. We have to find a true superstar. Those are very different situations to be in. He never said every superstar team will win it all. You just randomly accused him of saying it.

[Naysorn]

JV will be a superstar.

Bruno and the 9th have superstar potential.

Just wait on it. We are going to be great.

[Zeno]

So if OKC traded Westbrook for Demar and Lowry they'd have a better chance at the title? I think not.

[EventHorizon]

I think this off-season is a time when a re-tool actually makes sense. By this I mean swap out your key/core pieces. e.g. let Derozan go, and swing a trade for Paul George. I wonder if Gasol would sign with the Raps if they part with DeRozan?

JV/Bebe
FA/PP
George/JJ
Carrol/Powell
Lowry/CoJo

[OptimalOptimist]

Why does a retool makes sense when we are having the best season in franchise history?

[Mikistan]

JV will be a superstar.

Bruno and the 9th have superstar potential.

Just wait on it. We are going to be great.

Yeah man JV is a beast i agree, it all comes down to his usage and development of his quickness now - they bulked him hard, he can bang with the big boys, but you need to run him out of the high post, give him the ball and run screens off and around him, he can pass over everyone, hit cutters, drive and dish, shoot his mid ranger -- and thats all without even asking him to work on 3s, get him on that lebron diet and keep cutting him before a clean bulk, none of that mcdonalds beer **** anymore

the 9th pick is our ace in the hole tho, and is giving something up to perhaps risk it on murray a good idea?:D

[EventHorizon]

Why does a retool makes sense when we are having the best season in franchise history?

Escape the treadmill and try and take the next step that the OP is talking about.

[Dennis 37]

NBA teams should have a 30 man roster so they can have a full development team in the D-League. The only was to fight superstar talent is with extreme depth.

[Vlade Divac]

JV will be a superstar.

Bruno and the 9th have superstar potential.

Just wait on it. We are going to be great.

Can you see how dumb your statement looks?!?

"Bruno and the 9th have superstar potential"?!?! You don't even frickin know who is going to be drafted and you pronounce him to be a superstar?!?

Bruno is a dead weight on our bench who has better chances to be cut then to be rotational player, let alone superstar. I mean seriously what are the bases you come up with such statement? Did your Physical Education teacher tell you?

[Sherlock]

So I was just thinking about the teams that are left and really now more than ever does this final 4 show how there are different levels to this....game. It shows us what is required to be a championship calibre team, how far we have to go and what we all know is the real missing factor here. Just look at the core of how it works...



Championship Calibre: a true superstar and 2 complimentary all-stars Curry with Klay & Draymond, LBJ with Kyrie & Love
Contender: 2 superstars but no real 3 all star who brings it all together (KD & Beastbrook)
Pretender: 2 complimentary all-stars (DD & KL), no superstar that brings it all together



Now course over some will throw out Shaq & Kobe but unless you're talking 2 top 10 players all time it's generally not the case to get around it. Even the majority of SAS championships came when Duncan was the superstar and Manu & Parker were the all-stars, the brilliance of Pops coaching and addition of Kawhi had offset what step Duncan had lost but for the most part there's generally a trinity of star players with a superstar at the core ie/ MJ + Pippen and Rodman or Grant, LBJ plus Wade/Bosh, Garnett plus Paul & Allen. Right now we got the 2 complimentary all-stars and they're probably not even as good as the other teams complimentary duos which is probably offset by our depth.

Unfortunately I'm not sure there's any light at the end of tunnel in this rant but really it just further highlights to me that we're going to need at minimum to ADD a Paul George and more so a Kevin Durant to what we have if we want to be a true contender that has realistic championship aspirations. Adding a PG or KD without offsetting the loss of say DD or even bringing in a Cousins type of player will most likely not be enough to really get the Larry O'Brien trophy. Masai is going to need to work some miracle or start re-strategizing for a new 5 year plan.

This is right. We're at the pretender level (Lowry/DeRozan/Valanciunas). We're hanging out where teams like Atlanta (Horford, Milsap, Teague/Schroeder), Clips (Paul, Griffin, DeAndre) and Memphis (Gasol, Randolph, Conley). Those are all solid teams, and have had good runs, but haven't been able to crack the upper echelon.

I'd argue though that over the Spurs 19-year history with Tim Duncan, they've actually floated between your three levels from year-to-year. What they managed though was to always stay at that level where they were within striking distance of championship calibre, and when opportunity struck, they were able to take advantage.

In another thread, someone made the comment that what we need to do now is tread water -- swim parallel to the shore rather than get sucked up by the rip-tide. That's exactly right. We have to stay close and when opportunity presents itself (disgruntled superstar, big-time FA opportunity) we make our move to get into that top tier.

And for what it's worth, among recent champions, Miami (for the 2006 run) Dallas and Golden State all hung out in this tier for a while before everything fell into place. Obviously Golden State is an amazing story, but no one out there predicted that Steph would go from shoot-first weak-ankled point guard to unanimous MVP-level transcendent superstar and that Draymond would turn into an all-defensive team lynchpin. Miami lucked out in that when Shaq got pissed enough at Kobe that he demanded out, they had an intriguing young team and the assets needed to trade for him. Dallas was able to bring in guys like Chandler and got an MVP-level performance from Dirk when they won it in 2011 (and the LeBron/Wade/Bosh Heat didn't yet have their supporting cast set up nor their full mojo running).

So stranger things have happened.

[Double Helix]

RANKED FROM WORST LEVEL TO BEST

9) No-man's land lotto team missing the playoffs regularly and picking 7-13 at most with nothing but role players.

8) No man's land with a star player not good enough to lift you into the playoffs but could be part of a big 3 if you added via FA or traded assets. Think the Knicks.

7) First round fodder lead mostly by 30 year old vets with no upside for more. Think the Mavericks at present.

6) Lotto team with at least one player who looks to have top 15 league-wide potential in their prime. It's a great place to start but it may not lead out of the first round if management isn't careful for a few reasons. One, because these phenoms are sometimes so good they don't let the team get another top 3 pick immediately afterward and 2 management is scared of losing them so they sometimes accelerate rebuilds around them and add vets too soon. (KG and Cousins and VC teams come to mind).

5) Second round fodder with no upside for more.

4) Lotto team with at least 1 player with top 15 league-wide potential and anther with top 30 league-wide potential (This kind of core should usually max out at least in the 2nd round but sometimes hasn't. Still, I put it above #5 because the upside means it could be more and the hope with 2 young impact stars will make you think it might happen.

3) Conference Finals fodder with no upside for more. Making it here is an actual accomplishment because other teams below either won't with their cores or are hoping to get here due to their prospects but may not. Basically where we made it to this year.

2) NBA Finals contender with only a solid chance to beat the champion favorites of the era. Think the Stockton/Malone Jazz.

1) NBA favorite for NBA Championship. Repeat Rockets. Bulls. Warriors. Heat in the big 3 era.

[bluerap23]

JV will be a superstar.

Bruno and the 9th have superstar potential.

Just wait on it. We are going to be great.

Yeah man JV is a beast i agree, it all comes down to his usage and development of his quickness now - they bulked him hard, he can bang with the big boys, but you need to run him out of the high post, give him the ball and run screens off and around him, he can pass over everyone, hit cutters, drive and dish, shoot his mid ranger -- and thats all without even asking him to work on 3s, get him on that lebron diet and keep cutting him before a clean bulk, none of that mcdonalds beer **** anymore

the 9th pick is our ace in the hole tho, and is giving something up to perhaps risk it on murray a good idea?:D

I have watched enough basketball to definitively say that JV will not be a superstar. He has potential to become an All-star, but that is his absolute ceiling.

[LJKO]

So I was just thinking about the teams that are left and really now more than ever does this final 4 show how there are different levels to this....game. It shows us what is required to be a championship calibre team, how far we have to go and what we all know is the real missing factor here. Just look at the core of how it works...



Championship Calibre: a true superstar and 2 complimentary all-stars Curry with Klay & Draymond, LBJ with Kyrie & Love
Contender: 2 superstars but no real 3 all star who brings it all together (KD & Beastbrook)
Pretender: 2 complimentary all-stars (DD & KL), no superstar that brings it all together



Now course over some will throw out Shaq & Kobe but unless you're talking 2 top 10 players all time it's generally not the case to get around it. Even the majority of SAS championships came when Duncan was the superstar and Manu & Parker were the all-stars, the brilliance of Pops coaching and addition of Kawhi had offset what step Duncan had lost but for the most part there's generally a trinity of star players with a superstar at the core ie/ MJ + Pippen and Rodman or Grant, LBJ plus Wade/Bosh, Garnett plus Paul & Allen. Right now we got the 2 complimentary all-stars and they're probably not even as good as the other teams complimentary duos which is probably offset by our depth.

Unfortunately I'm not sure there's any light at the end of tunnel in this rant but really it just further highlights to me that we're going to need at minimum to ADD a Paul George and more so a Kevin Durant to what we have if we want to be a true contender that has realistic championship aspirations. Adding a PG or KD without offsetting the loss of say DD or even bringing in a Cousins type of player will most likely not be enough to really get the Larry O'Brien trophy. Masai is going to need to work some miracle or start re-strategizing for a new 5 year plan.

We have a superstar or rather another All-star that is not name Lowry and Demar and his name is Jonas Valanciunas; Our clown coach just doesn't see that

[lobosloboslobos]

Great posts in this thread!

I agree with everyone!

[YogurtProducer]

So if OKC traded Westbrook for Demar and Lowry they'd have a better chance at the title? I think not.

Depends what Lowry you get really. No Westbrook means more Durant and I think Lowry is the superior second option than Russ is. Derozan would be good off the bench in OKC land as well.

Westbrook is far and beyond the best the player of the 3 but Lowry was pretty great this year

[Mikistan]

So I was just thinking about the teams that are left and really now more than ever does this final 4 show how there are different levels to this....game. It shows us what is required to be a championship calibre team, how far we have to go and what we all know is the real missing factor here. Just look at the core of how it works...



Championship Calibre: a true superstar and 2 complimentary all-stars Curry with Klay & Draymond, LBJ with Kyrie & Love
Contender: 2 superstars but no real 3 all star who brings it all together (KD & Beastbrook)
Pretender: 2 complimentary all-stars (DD & KL), no superstar that brings it all together



Now course over some will throw out Shaq & Kobe but unless you're talking 2 top 10 players all time it's generally not the case to get around it. Even the majority of SAS championships came when Duncan was the superstar and Manu & Parker were the all-stars, the brilliance of Pops coaching and addition of Kawhi had offset what step Duncan had lost but for the most part there's generally a trinity of star players with a superstar at the core ie/ MJ + Pippen and Rodman or Grant, LBJ plus Wade/Bosh, Garnett plus Paul & Allen. Right now we got the 2 complimentary all-stars and they're probably not even as good as the other teams complimentary duos which is probably offset by our depth.

Unfortunately I'm not sure there's any light at the end of tunnel in this rant but really it just further highlights to me that we're going to need at minimum to ADD a Paul George and more so a Kevin Durant to what we have if we want to be a true contender that has realistic championship aspirations. Adding a PG or KD without offsetting the loss of say DD or even bringing in a Cousins type of player will most likely not be enough to really get the Larry O'Brien trophy. Masai is going to need to work some miracle or start re-strategizing for a new 5 year plan.

This is right. We're at the pretender level (Lowry/DeRozan/Valanciunas). We're hanging out where teams like Atlanta (Horford, Milsap, Teague/Schroeder), Clips (Paul, Griffin, DeAndre) and Memphis (Gasol, Randolph, Conley). Those are all solid teams, and have had good runs, but haven't been able to crack the upper echelon.

I'd argue though that over the Spurs 19-year history with Tim Duncan, they've actually floated between your three levels from year-to-year. What they managed though was to always stay at that level where they were within striking distance of championship calibre, and when opportunity struck, they were able to take advantage.

In another thread, someone made the comment that what we need to do now is tread water -- swim parallel to the shore rather than get sucked up by the rip-tide. That's exactly right. We have to stay close and when opportunity presents itself (disgruntled superstar, big-time FA opportunity) we make our move to get into that top tier.

And for what it's worth, among recent champions, Miami (for the 2006 run) Dallas and Golden State all hung out in this tier for a while before everything fell into place. Obviously Golden State is an amazing story, but no one out there predicted that Steph would go from shoot-first weak-ankled point guard to unanimous MVP-level transcendent superstar and that Draymond would turn into an all-defensive team lynchpin. Miami lucked out in that when Shaq got pissed enough at Kobe that he demanded out, they had an intriguing young team and the assets needed to trade for him. Dallas was able to bring in guys like Chandler and got an MVP-level performance from Dirk when they won it in 2011 (and the LeBron/Wade/Bosh Heat didn't yet have their supporting cast set up nor their full mojo running).

So stranger things have happened.

in our first 19 years as a franchise we had only flash in the pan success (peak), now we are trying to create winning with consistency over a longer period, however that may be needed (plateau), and permanence is that championship level (not 5 not 6 not 7...)



article from 2 years ago when we needed to resign lowry and masai just picked bruno - i think the model still works, and the past 2 years in retrospect have followed it up -- the big issue is if we implode at any point, the instability would push us back into peak mode, and would take a decade to get back into being perceived as a consistent team

masai totally needs to resign demar, but the trading him later or retooling with lowry, or even the bringning someone other than casey in can happen, if only 1 or max 2 happen -- if he does all the changes at once, we likely see it crumble