OT: $ in TO

[Kid Vicious]

I'm seeing tickets for $200 USD. Where are you looking that $400 is the lowest?

Ticket prices dropped after the Game 5 blowout. Tons of bandwagon fans who just wanna be 'seen'

[refshateRaps]

So I was looking at Stubhub for tickets to Game 6. The cheapest tickets to sit anywhere in the lower bowl were nearly $1,000 per ticket! The absolute cheapest tix to have your nose bleed are around $400.

By comparison, in Cleveland you can get tix for $100 for very decent seats.

Is anyone else surprised at just how many serious ballers are living in TO? I know it's an affluential city, but I had no idea of the extent.

It's not like the economy is booming or we have major corporations (other than banks, which are laying off people). It's pretty much Financial services and that's it.

Any theories? Old country money? Curious what people think.

We are still in the midst of the biggest Housing boom EVER in this City which has lined he pockets of many Torontonians. That coupled with the biggest money printing scheme to transfer wealth in the US over the last 7 years got a lot of wealthy people here even richer.

I mean our main Business is housing & the only thing that can stop it are higher rates (unlikely) or a global market meltdown (likely at some point).

The bankers with the dough aernt the ones getting laid off.... And they will be the last if disaster happens to strike. Even the average family who owned a home for atleast 5 year feels like ballers based on equity.

What a time to be alive. The City is still "booming" & balling inside the biggest debt cycle we've ever seen. Enjoy it while it lasts...

[maternal85]

Let's not forget that the Raptors are also Canada's team which means there will always be interest from outside of Toronto to go to a game throughout the regular season and playoffs. If people are willing to overpay, there's no incentive to lower prices.

I don't like the whole "Raptors are Canada's team" narrative, I mean it's cool to be a fan of the Raptors if you live outside of Southern Ontario but it's not like people are coming in from Montreal or Calgary to go to Jurassic Park. The Raptors would be just as successful if its only fans existed in the GTA.

Yes they are. People coming from Ottawa and Montreal regularly. Same with the west coast. I know a few people from Calgary and Edmonton who bought TICKETS right after the game 4 win and will be attending game 6 today.

[OAKLEY_2]

Toronto is the financial capital of Canada with a population of 6 million in the GTA. Lots of people with lots of money. Basic supply/demand economics.

Yes and no. I think in capitalism (United States variant) we aggressively invent scarcity to drive up the prices of commodities in order to make fortunes. With the kind of cultural demand there is for competitive pro sports in the GTA they could move the event to Skydome and sell a lot more tickets but the business model floats on a precise calculation of number of seats and seating pricing. If you know you are always at over capapcity in terms of seating you not only have cost certainty but you can start to project revenue growth based on raising prices for your seamingly scare commodity. This drives the price up and up and they sit back and watch what customers will tolerate. Since it is a "fun" proposition much like vacations, the sky is the limit. In cities like Atlanta high school football and stock car racing might be a bigger cultural draw hence the business model does not work as well. Less disposable income and other choices. Same for Cleveland. They play in the Quicken Loans arena. Should be called: The Money Changers Sports Palace "breaking knee caps since 1776.

[mashiach]

Montreal>Toronto

[theaub]

Toronto is the financial capital of Canada with a population of 6 million in the GTA. Lots of people with lots of money. Basic supply/demand economics.

Yes and no. I think in capitalism (United States variant) we aggressively invent scarcity to drive up the prices of commodities in order to make fortunes. With the kind of cultural demand there is for competitive pro sports in the GTA they could move the event to Skydome and sell a lot more tickets but the business model floats on a precise calculation of number of seats and seating pricing. If you know you are always at over capapcity in terms of seating you not only have cost certainty but you can start to project revenue growth based on raising prices for your seamingly scare commodity. This drives the price up and up and they sit back and watch what customers will tolerate. Since it is a "fun" proposition much like vacations, the sky is the limit. In cities like Atlanta high school football and stock car racing might be a bigger cultural draw hence the business model does not work as well. Less disposable income and other choices. Same for Cleveland. They play in the Quicken Loans arena. Should be called: The Money Changers Sports Palace "breaking knee caps since 1776.

I mean...are you suggesting the Raptors play their playoff games at Rogers Centre? Outside of the multiple logistical impossibilities with doing that, there was a reason the Raps built their own arena...

[OAKLEY_2]

Toronto is the financial capital of Canada with a population of 6 million in the GTA. Lots of people with lots of money. Basic supply/demand economics.

Yes and no. I think in capitalism (United States variant) we aggressively invent scarcity to drive up the prices of commodities in order to make fortunes. With the kind of cultural demand there is for competitive pro sports in the GTA they could move the event to Skydome and sell a lot more tickets but the business model floats on a precise calculation of number of seats and seating pricing. If you know you are always at over capapcity in terms of seating you not only have cost certainty but you can start to project revenue growth based on raising prices for your seamingly scare commodity. This drives the price up and up and they sit back and watch what customers will tolerate. Since it is a "fun" proposition much like vacations, the sky is the limit. In cities like Atlanta high school football and stock car racing might be a bigger cultural draw hence the business model does not work as well. Less disposable income and other choices. Same for Cleveland. They play in the Quicken Loans arena. Should be called: The Money Changers Sports Palace "breaking knee caps since 1776.

I mean...are you suggesting the Raptors play their playoff games at Rogers Centre? Outside of the multiple logistical impossibilities with doing that, there was a reason the Raps built their own arena...

Not saying that at all. I am saying they are creating a false scarcity so they can easily jack the prices. Pretty simple. They create an air that there are 19,000 who spend like Wekerle even though he is one of a handful driving a Bentley.

[OAKLEY_2]

Montreal>Toronto

City or teams or both?

They have one team. Habs. They have some great neighbourhoods but it is a very different city (size and scale) than Toronto. Montreal is a beautiful city and they are smart enough to preserve their old town. Toronto is paving their heritage with bland condos and the only thing holding back developers from destroying the entire place is the existence of old neighbourhoods. Once condos have laid waste to all the Yonge and Bloors they will have no choice but to build out on the lake. I don't think land development is anything more than an investment play paying higher than normal rates of return. Like any mediocre stock the rates might yield but the equity is questionable or put another way - inflated. = bubble = duck and cover.

[LiSTWithLani]

Montreal>Toronto

I get that you're the messiah, Mashiach, but definitely not in terms of the investment, market for jobs or stability. For fun, you might have an argument!

[Shaazzam]

Heh, I live in the 905 and after 8 years I could sell my house for at least double what I paid for it.

[Shaazzam]

I remember a couple years ago hearing somebody like Peddie or Tannenbaum on with McCowan and they said that MLSE does their regular season pricing, including concessions etc on the premise that someone would attend one game a year, and what would they pay if they were only going to that one game.

[YogiStewart]

Look at the housing prices. I have always wondered who are these people and how do they have so much money!

i've been looking into investment properties and into opening up my own business in Toronto.
i have learned that there are people with a pantload of money out there.
lots of uneducated people bought commercial properties in the 1980s because they had no other options. those people now have empires.
they are money making machines that continue to buy (because they have the cash to do so) and will sell their properties that they bought for $500000 for $3-4 million.

if you have ANY money, i'd get some friends together, start a corporation, and buy a commercial property. your return in 4 years will be stupid. talking about $1 mil buildings getting you $1.5 million in 4 years. of course, you will have to be a landlord (or pay someone to manage your buildings) but a $100000 return per year on what may be a $250 000 initial investment? pretty amazing

[deeps6x]

The problem is stubhub..
That is the only way to get legit 2nd hand tickets which by all accounts makes stubhub the defector company to get paid $ for commission fees etc.

So stubhub can charge an arm and a leg and they jack up the prices by default...

So Stubhub is making a ton of money off the Raptors playoff success.

Does anyone know how much MLSE is making for each extra playoff game? Someone suggested $7M a couple weeks ago. Is that realistic?

[theaub]

Yes and no. I think in capitalism (United States variant) we aggressively invent scarcity to drive up the prices of commodities in order to make fortunes. With the kind of cultural demand there is for competitive pro sports in the GTA they could move the event to Skydome and sell a lot more tickets but the business model floats on a precise calculation of number of seats and seating pricing. If you know you are always at over capapcity in terms of seating you not only have cost certainty but you can start to project revenue growth based on raising prices for your seamingly scare commodity. This drives the price up and up and they sit back and watch what customers will tolerate. Since it is a "fun" proposition much like vacations, the sky is the limit. In cities like Atlanta high school football and stock car racing might be a bigger cultural draw hence the business model does not work as well. Less disposable income and other choices. Same for Cleveland. They play in the Quicken Loans arena. Should be called: The Money Changers Sports Palace "breaking knee caps since 1776.

I mean...are you suggesting the Raptors play their playoff games at Rogers Centre? Outside of the multiple logistical impossibilities with doing that, there was a reason the Raps built their own arena...

Not saying that at all. I am saying they are creating a false scarcity so they can easily jack the prices. Pretty simple. They create an air that there are 19,000 who spend like Wekerle even though he is one of a handful driving a Bentley.

I don't think that's fair though.

Based on what we're seeing, there are way more than 19,000 people who would line up to pay MLSE prices for these playoff games. If anything, they have priced their tickets accurately. The issue here, as some have noted, are the insane fees that get added to the overall cost and make it untenable for most to attend unless they have either a lot of disposable income or were able to get in at SSH prices.

If I take tonight's game as an example (prior to the mini-downswing after game 5).

For a pair
- Fanzones for SSH cost $252
- TM face printed on tickets is $418
- Hypothetical sell on re-sale site for (roughly) 100% SSH profit of $500 net of seller fee
- Buyer pays approx. $640 with fees (10% seller fee, 18% buyer fee)

That's a lot of concurrent increases right there.

[RIP Kobe]

It's getting too expensive to live in Toronto. Everything is going up except my salary.

[mobifree]

Heh, I live in the 905 and after 8 years I could sell my house for at least double what I paid for it.

I too live in the 905, and my house price nearly double in 4 years.
If I were to sell my house, I'd have nowhere to live as I wouldn't be able to afford to buy a similar house, unless I go to a small town like London, Guelph or Windsor (and I have no intention of doing that).

In the past towns to the north of the GTA (Keswick, Georgina, Uxbridge) were a viable option, no longer. Those prices are now insane too.

[Woody Allen]

It's just not that Toronto is richer, it's just that the immigrant population heavily prefers sports like basketball. Soccer also has a very bright future in Toronto. It's not an ordinary North American city.

[Shaazzam]

Heh, I live in the 905 and after 8 years I could sell my house for at least double what I paid for it.

I too live in the 905, and my house price nearly double in 4 years.
If I were to sell my house, I'd have nowhere to live as I wouldn't be able to afford to buy a similar house, unless I go to a small town like London, Guelph or Windsor (and I have no intention of doing that).

In the past towns to the north of the GTA (Keswick, Georgina, Uxbridge) were a viable option, no longer. Those prices are now insane too.

Yeah no kidding amigo. I get agents knocking on my door or calling my house once a week telling me that I can get xxx for my house and they have a buyer all lined up. I simply tell them that's great, but if I sell in this market, I have to buy in this market too. That said, we might need to sell and get a bigger house. And I'd prefer to move before my daughter hits grade 1. But I really don't want to have to commute more than I already do... we might actually go a little west (of thornhill) but still probably in the 905.

[BigShotBargs_77]

Ummm I know of a group of 5 from Halifax who were at Jurassic Park for 3,4 and will be for 6 not to mention two games for Miami and one for Indiana. I get to see all the pics and videos and be jealous. Don't be that fan from Toronto, so many expect it.

[OakleyDokely]

As crazy as it sounds, home values in Toronto are still relatively undervalued compared with other big cities around the world. Foreign investment is starting to trickle in at a higher rate now. We are seeing the same thing in Vancouver where home prices have ballooned.

With all the foreign money coming in and the consistent mass immigration to Toronto/Vancouver yearly, I think home values will only continue to rise. Probably not at the same rate as the last 5-10 years, but I don't see any downturn any time soon at least for detached and semi-detached homes, where the supply is low and the demand is high. The condo market is a lot more fickle though.

Best time to buy real estate in Toronto continues to be yesterday.