Bosh on the Block? What would you offer?

[hyper316]

do not want

[tsherkin]

Nah, not worth it. Won't take us over the top, can't be a #1 anymore and was t hot as a creator/clutch guy anyway. Plus, he's a huge medical risk. Not worth th effort or resources.

[Wraps_fan]

Can someone tell me what use Bosh would have on our team?

Did you guys watch Bosh in his prime with the Raptors? He's an iso player that generally needs the ball to be effective. You guys are crying enough for JV to get more touches, imagine Bosh in that equation too.

We don't need Bosh, we need a PF that can be a positive for us on the court even when he doesn't score, like a Serge Ibaka

Have you watched Bosh play basketball the last 6 years? The man barely knows how to iso anymore.

He's one of the best catch/shoot stretch bigs in the league and one of the best pick and roll defenders in the league. He's only exactly the type of big man NBA teams want right now.


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He wasn't an isolation oriented offensive player with LeBron because LeBron is an absolute master at distributing the basketball.

You guys misunderstand my point. I'm not saying Bosh wouldn't be good, I'm saying there's no point to relegate Bosh to a 3rd wheel offensively to purely catch and shoot, you'd be giving up assets for that, when you can basically get the exact same thing out of Patrick Patterson.

I'd much rather Serge Ibaka as our starting PF than Chris Bosh

You are absolutely dead wrong about Bosh "not being able to iso anymore"

Bosh finished 3rd in the NBA in points per possession in isolation out of all players with 82 or more isolation possessions last year

Bosh iso'd more than CJ McCollum, Jimmy Butler, and Eric Bledsoe, just to name a few.

Bosh scored more points per possession on isolations than Curry, Lillard, KD, should I keep going?

Catch and shoot, yes, he's good, but you can find much cheaper PFs to stretch the floor and be relegated to a catch and shoot 4th option and play defense, hell we already have one of them in Patrick Patterson who's probably a better defender at this stage of his career than Bosh is.

[Duffman100]

Catch and shoot, yes, he's good, but you can find much cheaper PFs to stretch the floor and be relegated to a catch and shoot 4th option and play defense, hell we already have one of them in Patrick Patterson who's probably a better defender at this stage of his career than Bosh is.

And yet, for 2 offseasons in a row, we've struggled to add one. We added Scola and Sullinger.

Let's not overrate Patterson here, his shot disappears for ridiculous stretches.

[Wraps_fan]

Catch and shoot, yes, he's good, but you can find much cheaper PFs to stretch the floor and be relegated to a catch and shoot 4th option and play defense, hell we already have one of them in Patrick Patterson who's probably a better defender at this stage of his career than Bosh is.

And yet, for 2 offseasons in a row, we've struggled to add one. We added Scola and Sullinger.

Let's not overrate Patterson here, his shot disappears for ridiculous stretches.

Patterson/Bosh basically have identical 3pt shooting %s in the last 2 seasons.

Patterson has been the common denominator on all of our best line-ups over the last 2 or 3 years, you could make a realistic argument that he's our 4th or 5th most valuable player right now.

Unfortunately he just has this weird thing of not being a very good starter

I don't understand how you guys seem to not realize that trading for Bosh, who would likely cost a package like Ross/Patterson/Delon/1st round pick is a good idea when you are just going to relegate him to being a catch and shoot player.

I'm a huge Bosh fan too, I was actually happy he left us since our FO never built a real team around him he deserved to go to a better team, but I don't see how trading for Bosh makes us much better, if at all.

[Scott Hall]

What would I offer for an ex-Raptor who's 32 and has re-occurring blood clots and has dawged us in the past?

Probably that GIF of him saying "7 Games? This ain't going no 7 games" after game 1 against Miami

[Matty]

Nah, not worth it. Won't take us over the top, can't be a #1 anymore and was t hot as a creator/clutch guy anyway. Plus, he's a huge medical risk. Not worth th effort or resources.

We're not bringing him to be a No.1 guy, I thought that's what we were paying DeRozan for?

Anyways even if his numbers revert to the Big 3 days it's still very impressive numbers for a 3rd option, although he would likely take the reins as the No.2 guy and allow Lowry to be more of a facilitator.

[tsherkin]

We're not bringing him to be a No.1 guy, I thought that's what we were paying DeRozan for?

So why bother? He's a health risk who is losing athleticism, lacks post skills and has a highly replicated skill set. He's just not worth it. He's a Name, not a really useful player to us. Based on what we could expect from him, what makes him that much more appealing that Patterson? Very little.

[Matty]

We're not bringing him to be a No.1 guy, I thought that's what we were paying DeRozan for?

So why bother? He's a health risk who is losing athleticism, lacks post skills and has a highly replicated skill set. He's just not worth it. He's a Name, not a really useful player to us. Based on what we could expect from him, what makes him that much more appealing that Patterson? Very little.

Because in order to be a serious contender you need a triple-threat, having 1 option that is sup-bar to begin is not enough. What's the point of a post player anyways, it's not like we have players that are eager to past the ball down the post. The NBA is swiftly moving away from that game, at least for the remainder of this decade.

[nitrous]

We're not bringing him to be a No.1 guy, I thought that's what we were paying DeRozan for?

So why bother? He's a health risk who is losing athleticism, lacks post skills and has a highly replicated skill set. He's just not worth it. He's a Name, not a really useful player to us. Based on what we could expect from him, what makes him that much more appealing that Patterson? Very little.

You could make the same case about Demarre Carroll. A known health risk with chronic health issues in addition to being injury prone. James Johnson many times last season was able to offer a similar skillset to Carroll on a contract way cheaper minus the chronic health issues. I think we can all agree Ross doesn't offer much to this team either and seems to be an expensive duplication of what Powell offers on a much cheaper contract. You package Carroll and Ross, I don't see what we have to lose other than the equivalent of Carroll being out once again and the fact that Powell will take the minutes Ross receives currently.

We played 56 games without Carroll last season and the season before won all our games without him. Bosh might still be able to contribute meaningfully and offer championship veteran experience that no member of this team can offer. I honestly don't think this is a whole lot more risk beyond what we are already doing with Carroll. I'm also not entirely sold on the insistence of holding onto Ross when we have Powell on a much cheaper contract.

[carlosey]

The guy is probably one of the top risks in the NBA right now. Everyone knows his situation and letting him play is basically playing with fire.

His career is pretty much done. He can try but I cant see teams lining up to give him a chance at this point.

[tsherkin]

Because in order to be a serious contender you need a triple-threat, having 1 option that is sup-bar to begin is not enough. What's the point of a post player anyways, it's not like we have players that are eager to past the ball down the post. The NBA is swiftly moving away from that game, at least for the remainder of this decade.

In no way, shape or form will adding Bosh make a serious contender of our team. We need to upgrade from Demar to do that, and Bosh is not an upgrade from Demar. His drive game has atrophied, so he's basically a slightly better version of Patterson on offense at this point. That's not a consequential addition. That's what you don't seem to be tracking. He's not actually a really impressive offensive player, hasn't been since leaving here. He adapted, he's still good and useful when he plays, but he's not a guy who can handle a significant amount of usage... and that means that he isn't the kind of player we need.

He's older, he's got health concerns, he isn't a dynamic offensive player at all any longer and hasn't been in several years (nor should he be anyhow). He's not the kind of player who helps us take the next step. Yes, having one option who is subpar offensively is a problem for us, but ultimately, not having a superstar is our problem. That's about the size of it. We aren't going to get much further than we have without that changing, and going after an older guy like Bosh who didn't have the skillset we needed when he was in his 20s isn't going to be the move we need to make.

[BismackonLebron]

Just thinking out loud for fun.

Bosh for Carroll

Lineup:

Lowry /CoJo/Delon
DeRozan /CoJo/Ross
Powell/Ross
Bosh/Patterson
Valanciunas /Sullinger /Poeltl

Leaves us pretty thin for having a big defender Sf, but we could manage. Maybe trade for a James Johnson type or sign one for insurance.

The Lowry /DeRozan /Powell /Bosh/Valanciunas lineup looks pretty deadly at least on paper. I think we could compete with Cleveland if Bosh was healthy.

Lowry = Kyrie. Lowry the better teammate and facilator, while Kyrie is the better scorer.
Derozan > Jr Derozan better at everything, but 3 pt shooting
Powell <<<Lebron Lebron has the edge in every facet.
Bosh = Love Bosh the better defender, while Love the better offensive player, but that's arguable as well.
Val >TT Val is better at everything but defense

I think we could really give Cleveland a run for their money, so sign me up if it's a Bosh for Carroll type deal. If it fails, it's true were screwed, but I'd rather take a shot at greatness than stay in mediocrity because this current team even when fully developed will never eclipse the Cavs. I'm not even worrying about the Warriors since the are in a different conference and you build your team to beat your conference rivals.

[Tacoma]

LOL @ those proposing Carroll for Bosh. They're not in the same league. Carroll is a career bench player before ATL and even when healthy he's never going to be as good as he was in ATL again. He peaked in ATL and it's downhill from there. Bosh is a health risk, but so is Carroll. Health-wise, it's a wash. When healthy, however, I'll take Bosh over Carroll any and every day of the week. But...

Bosh is not returning. He burned his bridge when he griped about Toronto after he left. Bosh circa 2016 is a shadow of his former self and he plays only only for himself and for his legacy. He's got his rings and no longer has the desire to win. He has no desire to return to the city he never cared for and we should have no desire to see him return. Move on.

[triple_threat]

Because in order to be a serious contender you need a triple-threat, having 1 option that is sup-bar to begin is not enough. What's the point of a post player anyways, it's not like we have players that are eager to past the ball down the post. The NBA is swiftly moving away from that game, at least for the remainder of this decade.

In no way, shape or form will adding Bosh make a serious contender of our team. We need to upgrade from Demar to do that, and Bosh is not an upgrade from Demar. His drive game has atrophied, so he's basically a slightly better version of Patterson on offense at this point. That's not a consequential addition. That's what you don't seem to be tracking. He's not actually a really impressive offensive player, hasn't been since leaving here. He adapted, he's still good and useful when he plays, but he's not a guy who can handle a significant amount of usage... and that means that he isn't the kind of player we need.

He's older, he's got health concerns, he isn't a dynamic offensive player at all any longer and hasn't been in several years (nor should he be anyhow). He's not the kind of player who helps us take the next step. Yes, having one option who is subpar offensively is a problem for us, but ultimately, not having a superstar is our problem. That's about the size of it. We aren't going to get much further than we have without that changing, and going after an older guy like Bosh who didn't have the skillset we needed when he was in his 20s isn't going to be the move we need to make.

The health concerns are real, but to call him "slightly better" than Patterson offensively is outright laughable.

I mean, aren't you talking about the same Patterson who, at age 27 and in his athletic prime, put up 6.9 ppg and 1.2 ppg on 41.4 fg in 25.6 mpg while playing significant minutes against opposing benches by virtue of coming off the bench most of the time himself?

Patterson can't create a lick offensively, for himself or for others, nor can he capitalize offensively when others create for him. He is a subpar role player offensively.

Bosh would be a better offensive player if he was in a wheelchair; as long as he got his two legs, he is significantly better than Patterson on that end of the court.

[nitrous]

Bosh would be a better offensive player if he was in a wheelchair; as long as he got his two legs, he is significantly better than Patterson on that end of the court.

Pretty much. Bosh on freethrow shooting alone basically averages 5-6pts a game.

[Patman]

Bosh would be a better offensive player if he was in a wheelchair; as long as he got his two legs, he is significantly better than Patterson on that end of the court.

Pretty much. Bosh on freethrow shooting alone basically averages 5-6pts a game.

This. Bosh can score in many more ways than Patterson. Bosh CAN shoot, but that's not all he can do. Patterson is borderline useless on offense when he can't hit a 3.

You have to guard Bosh pretty much anywhere on the court:
http://vorped.com/1-nba/2015-2016/player/838/chris-bosh/shotchart/

Compared to Patterson, who has much less spread:
http://vorped.com/1-nba/2015-2016/player/1230/patrick-patterson/shotchart/

Not to mention that Bosh got to the line 5.4 times per 36 minutes, which obliterates Patterson's paltry 0.4 per 36. There's really no comparison here.

[OAKLEY_2]

Bosh would be a better offensive player if he was in a wheelchair; as long as he got his two legs, he is significantly better than Patterson on that end of the court.

Pretty much. Bosh on freethrow shooting alone basically averages 5-6pts a game.

Sorry if you acquire Bosh you are on the hook for 3 years and 75 mil. Carroll's costing us 45... I might do it if Riley would part with Josh Richardson in an expanded deal. Of course we clearly know Richardson and Winslow are not for sale so nothing to see here.

I think we need to give Sully every opportunity to shine as a starter. If he excels I could see us walking from Pat, dumping Ross and re-upping Sully and Lowry. Sully is is just 24. Then going with Sully and a Pascal and JV with Poetl. All young front court.

[tsherkin]

I mean, aren't you talking about the same Patterson who, at age 27 and in his athletic prime, put up 6.9 ppg and 1.2 ppg on 41.4 fg in 25.6 mpg while playing significant minutes against opposing benches by virtue of coming off the bench most of the time himself?

Patterson can't create a lick offensively, for himself or for others, nor can he capitalize offensively when others create for him. He is a subpar role player offensively.

You understand that I'm factoring in the likelihood that he won't be playing very much as a result of his health, yes?

Bosh would be a better offensive player if he was in a wheelchair; as long as he got his two legs, he is significantly better than Patterson on that end of the court.

No, this is flatly incorrect. Bosh shoots more. That's about the only major difference in their ability to exert influence over the offensive side of the game at this stage of Bosh's career. Toronto Bosh? No problem, easily superior to Patterson, absolutely. Miami Bosh, very much not the same player. Between the declines in footspeed and ability to gain the rim and his health, his utility is pretty limited. Half a season of Bosh disrupting our offensive flow isn't worth it.

Even though he's technically more efficient than Demar, regular-season Demar is a better playmaker than Bosh has ever been at any point in his entire career and Bosh isn't a good playoff performer either, so that's not really a factor about which we are geared up to care. I'd rather have Demar's playmaking and draw rate than Bosh's 3pt shooting. Meantime, getting Bosh into the lineup means moving Demar and losing the value of his dribble penetration, which Bosh does not help us with, and that's not an intelligent move at all, given how our entire offense pivots around how Kyle and Demar attack the perimeter defense, and how Bosh is incapable of handling that kind of load.

[triple_threat]

I mean, aren't you talking about the same Patterson who, at age 27 and in his athletic prime, put up 6.9 ppg and 1.2 ppg on 41.4 fg in 25.6 mpg while playing significant minutes against opposing benches by virtue of coming off the bench most of the time himself?

Patterson can't create a lick offensively, for himself or for others, nor can he capitalize offensively when others create for him. He is a subpar role player offensively.

You understand that I'm factoring in the likelihood that he won't be playing very much as a result of his health, yes?

Bosh would be a better offensive player if he was in a wheelchair; as long as he got his two legs, he is significantly better than Patterson on that end of the court.

No, this is flatly incorrect. Bosh shoots more. That's about the only major difference in their ability to exert influence over the offensive side of the game at this stage of Bosh's career. Toronto Bosh? No problem, easily superior to Patterson, absolutely. Miami Bosh, very much not the same player. Between the declines in footspeed and ability to gain the rim and his health, his utility is pretty limited. Half a season of Bosh disrupting our offensive flow isn't worth it.

Even though he's technically more efficient than Demar, regular-season Demar is a better playmaker than Bosh has ever been at any point in his entire career and Bosh isn't a good playoff performer either, so that's not really a factor about which we are geared up to care. I'd rather have Demar's playmaking and draw rate than Bosh's 3pt shooting. Meantime, getting Bosh into the lineup means moving Demar and losing the value of his dribble penetration, which Bosh does not help us with, and that's not an intelligent move at all, given how our entire offense pivots around how Kyle and Demar attack the perimeter defense, and how Bosh is incapable of handling that kind of load.

I'm not sure what demar's playmaking ability has to do with bosh being much better than Patterson offensively. The only argument I raised is you calling bosh "slightly better" than Patterson offensively (you conveniently quoted my entire post except for that). That is it. I even acknowledged the health concerns, so I'm not debating that.

When bosh plays, he's a way better as a shooter, slasher, shot creator for himself, shot creator for others (not in the mold of a guard like demar, that was a silly comparison by the way, but by virtue of demanding more attention from the defense), way better at getting to the FT line. I mean the bar isn't set that high with Patterson, he's just that bad on offense.

The fact that bosh is past his prime just means bosh >>> Patterson offensively instead of bosh >>>>> Patterson. Both the numbers and the eye test support this.