Why are some fans mad about ownership spending luxury tax?

[Throwback24]

I think a lot of fans simply want to feel like we are moving towards a championship & to many, committing to this team is not moving in that direction.

Personally.....I think it's the best route for now. You look at a team like the Mavs. They looked kinda like a treadmill-ish playoff team for a long time, then one year they finally got it done.

It take a bit of luck sometimes......just waiting for your time.

We are definitely not building a dynasty with this group, but with continuity & a bit of luck, you never know. It would be fun to at least see this team compete in the finals & I think it is still a possibility with this group if the right players are brought in.

This over everything. We're putting our armchair GM hats on.

[tecumseh18]

This really cuts to the heart of what it means to be a fan, and/or a REALGM poster. We're not just here for wins (otherwise I would have quit the Raptors five years ago).

Most posters here take the attitude: "What would I do if this was my team and my money?" We're intrigued by what it takes to be a well-run sustainable team in the NBA, especially today's NBA. And as mentioned above, when you have seasons tickets (as I do) you really do feel you have some skin in the game.

[metafisical]

I hate it when ownership goes into luxury tax, because I daydream that its my money and it hurts my feelings.

[kj_]

The earlier they go into the luxury tax, the faster this thing will collapse. The repeater tax...

This is the issue. Going into the tax is not in and if it's self a problem. But the state of the franchise going in can be a huge problem in the near term and for the long term health of the organization.


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[Mr.Raptorsingh]

And I'm not so sure MLSE will be willing to pay $13 mil. in luxury tax. That number probably has to be lower for them to sign off, I'd imagine.

[kalel123]

The real question is why aren't you mad about your team spending luxury tax on a team like the one we have, which has no hope of championship aspirations? No, you don't have to win a championship but there has to be some semblance of realistic chance at one and by that I mean, your championship hopes shouldn't have to rely on LeBron James, Stephen Curry, Kevin Durant, and Kwahi Leonard all breaking their legs at the same time before playoffs.

You look around the league, the only tax teams are either teams that are real contenders or teams that are badly run. Where do you think Raptors will fall if they go into luxury tax territory with this core? I just don't see how you can possibly support going into tax territory and it's entirely possible you would be worse off then you were last year.

These owners are in it to make money and Raptors owners are certainly no Mark Cuban so they are definitely in it to make money. There's a real chance if they get bad experience from this first time going into luxury tax, which is a distinct possibility, they'll be a lot more hesitant about going back into it for a team that's actually worth it down the line. Remember, it's not just the tax you are paying, based on my understanding, you also lose out on the tax sharing that other teams under the tax receive. I mean these owners and executives are smart people and there are very good reasons why most of them avoid the tax like the plague.

[Basketball_Jones]

I think it's hilarious and embarassing to be a tax team when you aren't even contending. It normally is a sign of bad contracts and spending. I don't think anybody thinks it hits their own personal wallets lol.

[Patman]

It's opportunity cost. MLSE will have a bad taste in their mouth if they go into the lux tax and the product on the floor underwhelms.

Just because it's not your money, does not mean you want to waste the opportunity. That's like if your parents say they'll buy you a car for X amount of dollars. It's not your money, but you want to get the most bang for your buck. If you make a bad choice, your parents aren't likely to bail you out and buy you another one.

[5thQuarter]

I think it's hilarious and embarassing to be a tax team when you aren't even contending. It normally is a sign of bad contracts and spending. I don't think anybody thinks it hits their own personal wallets lol.

When Bell and Rogers are the owners; if they have to pay up, it will reflect on their customers monthly bill

[I_Like_Dirt]

Just curious. We see this come up all the time. "Re-sign ______ and ______ suddenly you're a luxury tax team without a title."

Why are some people embarrassed to be a tax team while falling short of the Cavs or Warriors? It's a luxury tax, not a title or bust tax. This is different than simply being prudent with cap space to allow for the possibility of new free agent signings. That, we all understand.

I realize there are some CBA-implications for tax teams beyond the tax itself but they don't seem to be particularly limiting or like anything we've taken advantage of as a franchise before.

We are at a market disadvantage in comparison to the top 5 markets in the league with regard to weather and taxes and being in a different country but we have ownership with deep pockets so acting like a big market club and spending tax doesn't bother me in the least. If anything it sends a message to other young players in the league and their agents that Toronto is not cheap and will spend to retain talent in any situation where we are among the top 8 teams in the league. That's a good message to send to the league, not a bad one.

This strange insecurity with luxury tax needs to stop. It's a luxury this team ownership and this market can afford and a message of stability. It tells the league that we will be willing to keep future teams together, and penny pinching the way past Phoenix Suns and OKC Thunder teams have in the past is not happening in Toronto. Adrian Wojnarowski has reported on how we function like a big market club. Projecting wealth helps. Look at how easily Cuban was able to rebrand the Dallas Mavericks from the moment he owned them by projecting the image that he would not be cheap.

To be honest, I feel the reasons are similar to why so many lower income people vote for politicians that support tax breaks for the wealthy, or why fans in general tend to support owners over players where labour disputes are concerned, or even why people in general now are no longer nearly as pro union as they once were. Why tax the rich when I could be rich someday and I don't want to pay taxes?

There is a certain in-built concept that the decision impacts you. You cheer for the team and if the team isn't making as much money as possible while leaving as many dreams open as possible to a title, and when you cement the team in as not a likely title winner, people internalize it as a slight against them and think of it more as loser talk, that kind of thing. The reality is that a tax team is no further away from a title team than a non-tax team where the Raptors are concerned. Paying the repeater tax won't be in the cards because wealthy owners tend to prioritize making lots of money, and the advantages of repeatedly paying the tax aren't all that big unless you have superstars to pay that money to. But if a team wants to pay it, really, it shouldn't bother the fans.

Ultimately I've grossly oversimplified a bit here, but the connection is there.

[7 Footer]

Going into lux tax means higher ticket prices. Ain't no way in hell im paying a premium to watch these bum ass clowns take a ******* dump on the court!

[Hackett]

This idea that the Raptors are going to pass on the savings to the fans if they save 10 to 20 million is extremely funny and naive. I don't think any of you are season ticket holders.

The shakedown has been going on for a quite a while. It's nice to see some of that money making it to the floor. The team is beyond profitable, luxury tax is a pittance, they can easily afford to pay it and more.

For those of you who have never dealt with MLSE, lets just say there is never any foreplay involved. The Toronto market will be shaken for every $ possible, it makes no difference if they are in luxury tax territory or not, and they will get it.

[Hackett]

Going into lux tax means higher ticket prices. Ain't no way in hell im paying a premium to watch these bum ass clowns take a ******* dump on the court!

1stRowSports will miss your traffic

From reading the posts on here, I doubt any of you have more than a jersey invested in the team. Possibility of season ticket ownership and post count is inversely related.

Tickets are expensive, and in order to have that lifestyle you can't spend 8 hours a day posting on this forum.

[LastNameEver]

If your team doesn't have a chance of getting out the conference then the tax is a no go. It's next to impossible to improve a capped out team .. you can only tear it down.

[ballocks]

I'm afraid the Lowry decision this summer is purely financial- meaning he’ll sign if they can squeeze him in without paying tax, and he won’t if they can’t. And if that’s true, it’s excruciating to me how the future once again hangs in the balance of their continued refusal to take this step. Their self-imposed hard cap has demoralized past teams and devastated admins- from Grunwald to Babcock, Colangelo and now Ujiri?- and I wish fans would follow this thread's lead by exerting more pressure on the organization to step up. They should not be making decisions on how and when to contend based solely on budget, especially since it's clear that running this team is sustainable either way. Imagine McGrady wanted to re-sign in 2000 and we said, “Sorry, Tracy- we do want to max you out but don’t want to pay the penalty. Hope you understand. Good luck in Orlando.” There are some differences, of course, but the point remains that a system needs to be developed to retain talent in spite of fluctuating payrolls, otherwise the team will get stuck chasing its tail. Spending for the sake of spending is not good business practice, but not spending for the sake of not spending is hardly better.

Straight dumps (like they’re attempting with Val) are not going to improve this team or reinforce anything positive.

I don’t want to take away from the fact that I am excited for Joseph and Wright. I think those guys will eventually thrive in new roles. I just think the franchise is far healthier, hungrier and more competitive with Lowry, and assets can be better managed than by simply letting them walk to the detriment of today’s lineup.

To be honest, I don’t like playing the UFA game at all- be it for adds or losses. Notwithstanding Durant and Lebron, that ship has sailed away from this league imo. I’d rather build via DGRT (draft/grow/retain/trade)- which would be a more responsible ‘rule’ to live by as far as I'm concerned. The obsession of coming in under an almost arbitrary cap set by collective bargaining is hard for me to defend anymore. The Raptors have won 50+ in back to back seasons while enjoying unprecedented organizational depth and loyalty- yet there’s Ujiri on draft night with body language befitting someone about to get waterboarded. If you’re successful, players want to stay and you’re making money hand over fist, you have only yourself to blame for somehow feeling trapped by your embarrassment of riches.

For years (decades?) they’ve promised to make the commitment “when the time is right”- but if that’s not now, that’s not ever.

peace

[islandboy53]

If your team doesn't have a chance of getting out the conference then the tax is a no go. It's next to impossible to improve a capped out team .. you can only tear it down.

Lebron disagrees.

[Johnny Bball]

There is no pleasing this fanbase. People swore up and down for 2 years that MLSE would never pay the tax even when management said they would, and people complained about it and we were screwed and we would have to blow the team up, and now that they will spend into the tax, people are actually complaining, and now want to blow the team up. If MLSE didn't spend into the tax, I would be right ticked off because its near impossible to win in this league without that committment from ownership to spend.

[Tofubeque]

I'm reminded every season of how much worse our ownership situation could be. We could have Jerry Reinsdorf, who starts a rebuild by trading Jordan Bell for pocket money.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

Just curious. We see this come up all the time. "Re-sign ______ and ______ suddenly you're a luxury tax team without a title."

Why are some people embarrassed to be a tax team while falling short of the Cavs or Warriors? It's a luxury tax, not a title or bust tax. This is different than simply being prudent with cap space to allow for the possibility of new free agent signings. That, we all understand.

I realize there are some CBA-implications for tax teams beyond the tax itself but they don't seem to be particularly limiting or like anything we've taken advantage of as a franchise before.

We are at a market disadvantage in comparison to the top 5 markets in the league with regard to weather and taxes and being in a different country but we have ownership with deep pockets so acting like a big market club and spending tax doesn't bother me in the least. If anything it sends a message to other young players in the league and their agents that Toronto is not cheap and will spend to retain talent in any situation where we are among the top 8 teams in the league. That's a good message to send to the league, not a bad one.

This strange insecurity with luxury tax needs to stop. It's a luxury this team ownership and this market can afford and a message of stability. It tells the league that we will be willing to keep future teams together, and penny pinching the way past Phoenix Suns and OKC Thunder teams have in the past is not happening in Toronto. Adrian Wojnarowski has reported on how we function like a big market club. Projecting wealth helps. Look at how easily Cuban was able to rebrand the Dallas Mavericks from the moment he owned them by projecting the image that he would not be cheap.


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because wright is up for an extension; norm will be a rfa next year, we need money to pay these people...paying a broken down lowry, broken down ibaka and old ass tucker will limit our ability to keep our young players. i don't give a rat's ass about the luxury tax or mlse having to pay it other than that it limits our ability to keep our team competitive in the future.