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WTF! Moon is 3rd in the league in TS%!

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Re: WTF! Moon is 3rd in the league in TS%! 

Post#21 » by Eating a Book » Fri Nov 7, 2008 9:26 pm

Phenomenologist wrote:Yah. At first I would cringe every time he shot a long J, but it seems like he may have made some progress on that end (though of course the sample is still pretty small). My guess vis-a-vis the total matador act on the boards would be an injury. I say this because it's not only that he's playing on the perimeter more (and not mixing it up as much down low), but when he does go up in traffic he's losing the ball as he's bringing it down - I saw him do this at least 3 times last game alone. I'm almost certain he has some injury related to his hands or wrist area (just look at his insanely high TO ratio).


A big part of the rebounding dropoff is that Moon's been told to leak out on defensive rebounds. We're trying to get some easy buckets, I guess.
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Re: WTF! Moon is 3rd in the league in TS%! 

Post#22 » by Hendrix » Fri Nov 7, 2008 9:26 pm

steve_steamer wrote:(true shooting) % as opposed to shooting percentage? what is wrong with fg%??? jamario is not a high fg% player anyways..but he is off to a good start this year % wise..but his boards are extremely low..and you cant credit that to J.O. cuz he is not rebounding either!!! check stats..



FG % doesn't give you an acurate portrayl of a players efficieny. For example if I were to shoot 100 3's and make 50 of them I'de be shooting 50fg%, and have 150 pts. If you were to shoot 100 2pt'rs and make 50, you'de be shooting the same fg%, but have 50 less points. Then it adds ft % too so you can see exactly how efficient someone is with the total attempts they try and shoot the ball. Take a look at the dispariy between Billups TS%, and FG%. FG% tells you hes inefficeint but the truth is he's one of the most efficient players in the league.


Either way, Wayyyyy to early to be talking about TS% Sub.
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Re: WTF! Moon is 3rd in the league in TS%! 

Post#23 » by Alfred » Fri Nov 7, 2008 9:31 pm

TS% is not only worth paying attention to, it's the best shooting stat available IMO. It condenses a scorer's scoring ability into one stat.
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Re: WTF! Moon is 3rd in the league in TS%! 

Post#24 » by cdel00 » Fri Nov 7, 2008 9:33 pm

Moon after 4 games

7-10 from 1
6-10 from 2
6-10 from 3

Then he also has 1 OReb, 7 Steals, 4 Blocks, 7 TOs for a total of +5 possessions.

Very productive :)
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Re: WTF! Moon is 3rd in the league in TS%! 

Post#25 » by Pchu » Fri Nov 7, 2008 9:36 pm

08HEMI wrote:total sucky %

On a serious note he has been shooting the ball well but his rebounding is gone, his defense has been bad and he still can't dribble and attack for the life of him. Moon is not a godo enough shooter for this to keep up and so if the other parts of his game don't show up soon he and the raps are gonna to be in trouble.


His D has been ok. It's decent against Philly, Golden States and very good in Milwaukee. Tayshaun just killed him. Gotta give it up to Prince though, he showed me some moves that I wasn't expecting. I especially like his head and shoulder fakes.
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Re: WTF! Moon is 3rd in the league in TS%! 

Post#26 » by ahson » Fri Nov 7, 2008 9:36 pm

Damp got the 1st place, that pretty much tells the story. Sorry
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Re: WTF! Moon is 3rd in the league in TS%! 

Post#27 » by Egg Nog » Fri Nov 7, 2008 9:41 pm

J-Roc wrote:Looking at that list, it would appear TS% is not a stat worth bothering with. Sorry.


It's actually a great stat... one of the best ways to accurately show offensive efficiency.

Moon has been a teriffic shooter so far, it's just that he isn't going to stay on that list. Taking a really close look at stats is never a very good idea at this time of year, and this is an example of why. If Moon keeps it up, he'll smash all-time records for 3-point percentage and fg% for his position ...so yeah, not going to happen.
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Re: WTF! Moon is 3rd in the league in TS%! 

Post#28 » by halfcourt » Fri Nov 7, 2008 9:42 pm

TS% is one the best stats there is although i like eFG% a lot too ,its just that 4 games is not enough to make much conclusions
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Re: WTF! Moon is 3rd in the league in TS%! 

Post#29 » by Shaazzam » Fri Nov 7, 2008 9:43 pm

halfcourt wrote:TS% is one the best stats there is although i like eFG% a lot too ,its just that 4 games is not enough to make much conclusions

What is the difference?
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Re: WTF! Moon is 3rd in the league in TS%! 

Post#30 » by Phenomenologist » Fri Nov 7, 2008 9:45 pm

Scrapdoomfraud wrote:
Phenomenologist wrote:Yah. At first I would cringe every time he shot a long J, but it seems like he may have made some progress on that end (though of course the sample is still pretty small). My guess vis-a-vis the total matador act on the boards would be an injury. I say this because it's not only that he's playing on the perimeter more (and not mixing it up as much down low), but when he does go up in traffic he's losing the ball as he's bringing it down - I saw him do this at least 3 times last game alone. I'm almost certain he has some injury related to his hands or wrist area (just look at his insanely high TO ratio).


A big part of the rebounding dropoff is that Moon's been told to leak out on defensive rebounds. We're trying to get some easy buckets, I guess.


Wow, that knowledge makes me seethe with anger, but, for Sam Mitchell, it sadly sounds about par for the course. The audacity of telling Moon to stop doing what made him so effective for a team lacking heavily in athleticism is stunning. And all so that he can leak out on the break? Let's face facts - for all the incredible things that Calderon does, running the break is without question NOT one of them. He's extremely conservative and doesn't seem to have a great feel for when and where to make the outlet pass. And that's fine - part of the reason he's got such an insane pure point rating is because he plays a safe game. And I have no problem with us primarily being a half-court team, since that clearly plays to our strengths (especially with Ford gone). But, if that's the case, largely losing our second best rebounder (and best by position) is clearly not worth some half-assed attempt at a transition game. And this is especially true given JO's struggles on the boards thus far. It would be an egregious mistake to continue down this road, but not unexpected given Sam Mitchell's absolutely atrocious skills of deduction. I'm wondering if his assistant coaches are just "yes men" or if they are similarly incompetent. One other thing - to whatever extent this may or may not explain Moon's disappearing act on the boards, it certainly cannot fully explain it. He's plummeted from 8.9/40 to 2.4/40, so even in this small a sample size, I'd be hard pressed to believe that there isn't some other underlying cause, say, an injury.
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Re: WTF! Moon is 3rd in the league in TS%! 

Post#31 » by supersub15 » Fri Nov 7, 2008 9:45 pm

Shaazzam wrote:
halfcourt wrote:TS% is one the best stats there is although i like eFG% a lot too ,its just that 4 games is not enough to make much conclusions

What is the difference?


eFG% merges FG% and 3FG% into one stat
TS% merges FG%, 3FG% and FT% into one stat
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Re: WTF! Moon is 3rd in the league in TS%! 

Post#32 » by J-Roc » Fri Nov 7, 2008 9:45 pm

OK fine, TS% is a great stat. For the long run. But it's not worth bothering with for now. Actually, Moon had better have a damn good TS%, because he's not doing what he's supposed to be doing, which is rebounding and stopping his man on the perimeter. If he was shooting his normal %'s, he'd be a disaster right now.
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Re: WTF! Moon is 3rd in the league in TS%! 

Post#33 » by halfcourt » Fri Nov 7, 2008 9:45 pm

Shaazzam wrote:
halfcourt wrote:TS% is one the best stats there is although i like eFG% a lot too ,its just that 4 games is not enough to make much conclusions

What is the difference?

TS% accounts for free throws,2pt FG's and 3 pointers where as eFG% accounts for regular 2 pt FG's and 3's.
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Re: WTF! Moon is 3rd in the league in TS%! 

Post#34 » by Shaazzam » Fri Nov 7, 2008 9:47 pm

Cool thanks guys.
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Re: WTF! Moon is 3rd in the league in TS%! 

Post#35 » by J Dilla » Fri Nov 7, 2008 9:47 pm

It appears he's making every shat like Jose Calderon. Im guessing all he worked was on jumpshots in the summer while ignoring his ball handling.
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Re: WTF! Moon is 3rd in the league in TS%! 

Post#36 » by J-Roc » Fri Nov 7, 2008 9:51 pm

In other news...

WTF! Dampier is 1st in the league in TS%!
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Re: WTF! Moon is 3rd in the league in TS%! 

Post#37 » by Phenomenologist » Fri Nov 7, 2008 9:53 pm

J-Roc wrote:In other news...

WTF! Dampier is 1st in the league in TS%!


Actually, historically (at least in the last 2 seasons before this one), this is pretty consistent. Dampier is a high percentage converter, because he gets all his points off putbacks and dunks. His TS% is high, but he can't create shots for beans, which is why he's considered pretty mediocre.
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Re: WTF! Moon is 3rd in the league in TS%! 

Post#38 » by Idunkon1stdates » Fri Nov 7, 2008 9:55 pm

J-Roc wrote:In other news...

WTF! Dampier is 1st in the league in TS%!

Why is that surprising? He's a big man who gets few offensive touches. When he does, it's a dunk or a shot within 3 feet of the basket. Kwame Brown was in the top 5 in FG% a few years ago. It's not because he has a stunning array of post moves. It's because he was fed alley oops and given looks at point blank range.

e: beaten

I don't get why people are saying TS% is useless. Is FG% useless? Of course not. But both stats require context.
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Re: WTF! Moon is 3rd in the league in TS%! 

Post#39 » by execoftheyear » Fri Nov 7, 2008 10:01 pm

I'd blame Sam for his poor rebounding stats. If you watch the games you'll notice that instead of crashing the glass, he'd be leaking out for the outlet pass. Sam mentioned it in preseason that with the addition of JO, Moon would be able to leak out.

As for his shooting, I'm quite surprised he's shooting so well. He'd probably be shooting an even higher percentage if he didn't hesitate on some of his shots.
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Re: WTF! Moon is 3rd in the league in TS%! 

Post#40 » by Phenomenologist » Fri Nov 7, 2008 10:08 pm

TS% is, far and away, the best statistic to describe scoring EFFICIENCY. But as was illustrated with the point about Dampier, a high TS% doesn't necessarily equate to being a good player. That's why I'm such a big fan of John Hollinger's PER statistic. It takes nearly all the relevant (adjusted) statistics and combines them in a meaningful way. Of course PER, like any other stat, has it's flaws. For one, it tends to overvalue volume scorers. For another, it doesn't have a built-in adjustment for players who get limited minutes PER GAME (which is why you end up with a player like Carl Landry sporting a similar PER to Dirk, Bosh, etc.). And, of course, it also doesn't say a whole lot about how good a player is defensively, though that flaw is inherent and made clear by Hollinger at the outset. Overall though, it's a fantastic metric that is criminally undervalued by the media and fans alike.

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