Stat of the day:Raptors rebounding in the last 5 games

[supersub15]

I have noticed our wings standing around, expecting that JO or Bosh will get the rebound. (instead of just being aggressive & just going after it)

So how does that make O'Neal personally responsible for our crappy defensive rebounding?

[I_Like_Dirt]

So mostly you're discarding data to try and make if fit with your argument? That's about what I thought. At least you're honest.

For the record, I don't see a lot of people suggesting the team is very good at rebounding with JO, just that the team is bad at it without him and slightly better, but still terrible, at it with him. The team has definitely improved a lot on the boards of late, which is nice to see, but since the improvement started before JO got hurt I'm not so sure how much of that improvement I would credit to Bargnani. Personally, I feel that Moon and Bosh deserve the bulk of the credit (last night Graham and Bosh).

Would you be surprised to find out that the Raptors haven't been killed on the glass relative to their normal play with Bargnani in the game for the entire season? All season long the Raptors are only grabbing 0.4% more of the available rebounds with Andrea on the bench instead of on the court. What the team is sacrificing in order to maintain that rebounding ability, though, is on the defensive end, where the team gives up a whopping 8.6 more points per 100 possessions to the other team with Andrea on the court instead of on the bench. Basically, part (not all) of what is happening is that the team is sacrificing ever so small an amount of defensive position for a slight advantage in rebounding position.

The real key here is +/-, which definitely is a stat that needs to be used with care but is very much at the center of what is happening with Bargs. He is by far the worst player on the team in net +/- for this season at -10.9. The thing is, usually +/- varies so greatly that it usually takes about 30-40 games for a player to get his deviation under control, and we are sadly at that point now. And before you suggest that the past 5 games have been different, Andrea has only finished outside of the bottom three rotation players (i.e. 15 mpg or more) on the team in +/- twice out of the past five games. So the team doesn't get killed on the glass with Andrea out there, but they are definitely giving something up to maintain that rebounding number.

[Local_NG_Idiot]

Player 08-09 07-08 Last 5
Parker 2.8drpg 3.5drpg 4.8drpg
Moon 3.5drpg 5.0drpg 4.0drpg
Hump 1.6drpg 2.4drpg 1.2drpg (Snake in there though)
JG/Delfino 2.2drpg 3.6drpg 2.8drpg
Bargs 3.6drpg 3.1drpg 5.8drpg

Bargs is boxing out the opposing center so well these past 5 games that every teamate he plays with defensive rebounding numbers have gone up HUGE. On top of that he's grabbing an additional 2 himself!!!

Bargs for co-captain!! He's just making all of his teamates so much better!

[Cassius]

^Easy shots.

[MEDIC]

I have noticed our wings standing around, expecting that JO or Bosh will get the rebound. (instead of just being aggressive & just going after it)

So how does that make O'Neal personally responsible for our crappy defensive rebounding?

My post above stated that nobody is saying that O'Neal is personally responsible for poor rebounding.

All I am saying is that there have been a number of problems (for whatever reason) offensively & from a rebounding standpoint with JO on the floor. This team for whatever reason has not been able to make the adjustments necessary to play with JO. JO is not going to change his style of play for the team. It just hasn't been a good fit so far. Movement stops. Efficiency stops. Aggression stops.

I am not blaming O'Neal personally for doing anything (he has played his heart out). I am just saying our team has sucked with him as the starting C.

[jonny three time]

Edit: too late somebody else said it. But basically I think we're a better rebounding team when our C boxes out rather than him being a ball chaser and losing many to his own man. This is why we were a better defensive rebounding team last year.

[MEDIC]

With respect to the OP. It makes absolutely no reference to Bargs. It was other posters (myself included) that brought up Bargs rebounding style.

Some of you may be right. It may be the coaching change that has helped the rebounding #'s. Guess it'll take getting JO back in the lineup to see......

Bottom line is that this team has sucked with him as the starting C. I would love it if he magically came back, stayed healthy & the team played really well with him on the floor. I would be as happy as any Raptor fan out there............but if I was a betting man......

[MEDIC]

Edit: too late somebody else said it. But basically I think we're a better rebounding team when our C boxes out rather than him being a ball chaser and losing many to his own man. This is why we were a better defensive rebounding team last year.

Good post. No need to edit.

What Bargs is doing eerily resembles what Rasho did. Of course this is to be expected, as that's who he learned to play the C position from. Heck, even looks like Rasho sometimes out there (the way he moves his feet, the way he stretches his arms & doesn't leave his feet, the way he blocks shots, the way he boxes his man out & the way he tries to knock the ball to the perimeter when he can't get the rebound). Rasho only had over 7 rebounds a game once in his 10 year career (7.7). Most years he hovered around 5. Having said this, the consensus is that Rasho is a good defensive C, regardless of his rebounding numbers.

What Bargs does on D isn't as exciting as what JO does, but he is still very effective. He just goes about it in a different way.

[Avenger]

So mostly you're discarding data to try and make if fit with your argument? That's about what I thought. At least you're honest..

what on god's earth are you on about?What did i discard and what i my trying to fit in with what argument? I (and the source)did not discard or manipulate anything, it was just comparing the rebounding as bargnani at 5 vs the rest of the season and rebounding of 08/09 raptors vs 07/08 raptors.


You can make your conclusions and some people have obviously tried to explain it with their own ideas it but saying the data is invalid is silly and sidetracking to +/- is even worse considering my stat is fool proof and +/- is a big joke

[RockTHECasbah]

what are Moon's rebounding numbers with bargnani, o'neal and rasho?

[Avenger]

what are Moon's rebounding numbers with bargnani, o'neal and rasho?

i don't have the time to go and get the exact numbers but they are very good with Rasho, good with Bargnani and under average with oneal

[MEDIC]

what are Moon's rebounding numbers with bargnani, o'neal and rasho?

i don't have the time to go and get the exact numbers but they are very good with Rasho, good with Bargnani and under average with oneal

I don't think people want to see those numbers. Moon's rebounding numbers were horrible early in the year, as were his shot blocking numbers....