Can someone explain the Cap implications of trade

[Carnage]

Can someone post the cap implications of this deal? For example, how much cap space will we have and what it would look like if we resign Delfino, our 1st rounder, etc?


Thanks

[J-Roc]

Yeah, now that the deal is finalized, what do we have moving forward?

[cram]

I think its about 10mm for a new player.

[Superboy316KING]

The trade deadline hasn't passed yet. You should wait and ask that question after the deadline because i doubt BC is done.

[brownballer]

The trade deadline hasn't passed yet. You should wait and ask that question after the deadline because i doubt BC is done.

i hope so.....

[Local_NG_Idiot]

Just posted this in another thread, Capologist please correct anything if I'm wrong.

And there's the rub with this deal. If the raps release everyone they can (Marion, Parker, Joey, Jawai, Solomon, & Voskhul) that leaves the raps with:

Bosh, Bargs, Jose, Kapono, Banks, Hump, Ukic and this years 1st round pick (8 players) which their salaries end up at 46mil give or take 1/2 a mil depending on where the 1st rounder lands.

High side of the 09-10 projected cap is 61-62 million, low side 59-60 depending on revenues, the economy, and player salaries (remember there are quite a few very big contracts expiring this year and those players won't get 1/2 what they make now).

So, all that said the Raps could have anywhere from 13 - 16 million.

But wait, if you execise Joey's qualifying offer that adds 3.4million to the 46 which brings down the cap amount to between 9.5 & 12.5

IF Marion resigns for say 8 and Joey is still here that will leave 1.5 to 4.5 mill to sign 2 more players to make the minimum 12 man roster.

Here's the kicker now, IF you re-sign Marion to say 12 a year and keep Joey, the MLE and LLE kick in. So if BC overpays Marion, they have more money to actually sign those last 2 players.

Why do you think Marion is open to re-signing here all of a sudden?

[boshjonesford]

Yeah, now that the deal is finalized, what do we have moving forward?

ill tell you what we have



Banks and kapono

2009 2010 2011
10 mil 10 mil 10 mil

[kmsmith5]

Why wouldn't we use all or part of the $12million on a player like Ariza or Marvin Williams? Also, why is everyone so upset about Banks' contract? it's not the end of the world. We have cap space in 2009 and 2011 offseasons.

[dagger]

Just posted this in another thread, Capologist please correct anything if I'm wrong.

And there's the rub with this deal. If the raps release everyone they can (Marion, Parker, Joey, Jawai, Solomon, & Voskhul) that leaves the raps with:

Bosh, Bargs, Jose, Kapono, Banks, Hump, Ukic and this years 1st round pick (8 players) which their salaries end up at 46mil give or take 1/2 a mil depending on where the 1st rounder lands.

High side of the 09-10 projected cap is 61-62 million, low side 59-60 depending on revenues, the economy, and player salaries (remember there are quite a few very big contracts expiring this year and those players won't get 1/2 what they make now).

So, all that said the Raps could have anywhere from 13 - 16 million.

But wait, if you execise Joey's qualifying offer that adds 3.4million to the 46 which brings down the cap amount to between 9.5 & 12.5

IF Marion resigns for say 8 and Joey is still here that will leave 1.5 to 4.5 mill to sign 2 more players to make the minimum 12 man roster.

Here's the kicker now, IF you re-sign Marion to say 12 a year and keep Joey, the MLE and LLE kick in. So if BC overpays Marion, they have more money to actually sign those last 2 players.

Why do you think Marion is open to re-signing here all of a sudden?

You don't need to overpay Marion because you are forgetting about Delfino, who has a caphold, too, around $5 million like Joey.

Here's a scenario using $47,476,000 million for nine players as a base. That includes $1.25 million for our pick - it could be up to $500,000 higher, but we'd have to hit an amazing lottery jackpot for it to rise any more.

Okay.

Sign Marion for $7 million - subtotal $54.5 million
Sign Joey for $3 million - subtotal $57 million
Sign Carlo D for $4 million - subtotal $61 million
Use full MLE ($5.4 million) - subtotal $65 million
Sign bench big ($1 million) - subtotal $66 million
Sign Printezis ($500,000) - substotal $67 million

That's 15 players, with about $3-4 million left under the tax.

Or we could not sign Printezis, but use $3 million to re-sign AP as a bench guy.

The key is, who is the MLE guy?

Or, we don't use the MLE, but do some kind of contract trade, shorter (let's say JK) for longer, taking back $6-7 million.

So we'd be

C - AB, Bosh, Bench big, Jawai
PF - Bosh, AB, Hump
SF - Marion/Delfino/Kapono/
SG - MLE/Delfino/pick
PG - Jose, Roko, Banks

This is one scenario where we keep spending close to the tax limit. The MLE player could also be a big. Our first round pick would be BPA.

No matter what, we're bound to be deeper overall with any version of this scenario.

Who the MLE player is would have a big bearing on how much better

Now, we could also go the cap space route, renounce everyone, make on significant signing, and then add very cheap players. That wouldn't let us spend as much overall.

[supersub15]

You don't need to overpay Marion because you are forgetting about Delfino, who has a caphold, too, around $5 million like Joey.

Here's a scenario using $47,476,000 million for nine players as a base. That includes $1.25 million for our pick - it could be up to $500,000 higher, but we'd have to hit an amazing lottery jackpot for it to rise any more.

Okay.

Sign Marion for $7 million - subtotal $54.5 million
Sign Joey for $3 million - subtotal $57 million
Sign Carlo D for $4 million - subtotal $61 million
Use full MLE ($5.4 million) - subtotal $65 million
Sign bench big ($1 million) - subtotal $66 million
Sign Printezis ($500,000) - substotal $67 million

That's 15 players, with about $3-4 million left under the tax.

Or we could not sign Printezis, but use $3 million to re-sign AP as a bench guy.

The key is, who is the MLE guy?

Or, we don't use the MLE, but do some kind of contract trade, shorter (let's say JK) for longer, taking back $6-7 million.

So we'd be

C - AB, Bosh, Bench big, Jawai
PF - Bosh, AB, Hump
SF - Marion/Delfino/Kapono/
SG - MLE/Delfino/pick
PG - Jose, Roko, Banks

This is one scenario where we keep spending close to the tax limit. The MLE player could also be a big. Our first round pick would be BPA.

No matter what, we're bound to be deeper overall with any version of this scenario.

Who the MLE player is would have a big bearing on how much better

Now, we could also go the cap space route, renounce everyone, make on significant signing, and then add very cheap players. That wouldn't let us spend as much overall.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a team automatically lose its MLE and LLE if it's under the cap? The only way to use the MLE is if we keep Delfino's and Graham's cap holds, which would put us over the cap. But in that instance, we HAVE to re-sign Marion, because we won't be able to sign anybody else. Good leverage for Marion's agent.

[whiterasta80]

Good summary daggar, and that's probably the best course of action. Unfortunately that's why its so frustrating to have Banks coming back and no Kapono/Anthony exchange. Marvin Williams is probably the best (IMO) high ceiling option this offseason, and that course of action doesn't allow us pursue him (short of a S&T). If we get an expiring instead of Banks then we can bid on anyone we like.

[Carnage]

Just posted this in another thread, Capologist please correct anything if I'm wrong.

And there's the rub with this deal. If the raps release everyone they can (Marion, Parker, Joey, Jawai, Solomon, & Voskhul) that leaves the raps with:

Bosh, Bargs, Jose, Kapono, Banks, Hump, Ukic and this years 1st round pick (8 players) which their salaries end up at 46mil give or take 1/2 a mil depending on where the 1st rounder lands.

High side of the 09-10 projected cap is 61-62 million, low side 59-60 depending on revenues, the economy, and player salaries (remember there are quite a few very big contracts expiring this year and those players won't get 1/2 what they make now).

So, all that said the Raps could have anywhere from 13 - 16 million.

But wait, if you execise Joey's qualifying offer that adds 3.4million to the 46 which brings down the cap amount to between 9.5 & 12.5

IF Marion resigns for say 8 and Joey is still here that will leave 1.5 to 4.5 mill to sign 2 more players to make the minimum 12 man roster.

Here's the kicker now, IF you re-sign Marion to say 12 a year and keep Joey, the MLE and LLE kick in. So if BC overpays Marion, they have more money to actually sign those last 2 players.

Why do you think Marion is open to re-signing here all of a sudden?

You don't need to overpay Marion because you are forgetting about Delfino, who has a caphold, too, around $5 million like Joey.

Here's a scenario using $47,476,000 million for nine players as a base. That includes $1.25 million for our pick - it could be up to $500,000 higher, but we'd have to hit an amazing lottery jackpot for it to rise any more.

Okay.

Sign Marion for $7 million - subtotal $54.5 million
Sign Joey for $3 million - subtotal $57 million
Sign Carlo D for $4 million - subtotal $61 million
Use full MLE ($5.4 million) - subtotal $65 million
Sign bench big ($1 million) - subtotal $66 million
Sign Printezis ($500,000) - substotal $67 million

That's 15 players, with about $3-4 million left under the tax.

Or we could not sign Printezis, but use $3 million to re-sign AP as a bench guy.

The key is, who is the MLE guy?

Or, we don't use the MLE, but do some kind of contract trade, shorter (let's say JK) for longer, taking back $6-7 million.

So we'd be

C - AB, Bosh, Bench big, Jawai
PF - Bosh, AB, Hump
SF - Marion/Delfino/Kapono/
SG - MLE/Delfino/pick
PG - Jose, Roko, Banks

This is one scenario where we keep spending close to the tax limit. The MLE player could also be a big. Our first round pick would be BPA.

No matter what, we're bound to be deeper overall with any version of this scenario.

Who the MLE player is would have a big bearing on how much better

Now, we could also go the cap space route, renounce everyone, make on significant signing, and then add very cheap players. That wouldn't let us spend as much overall.

That is nowhere near a playoff contender status. Its looking more and more like that for this team to jump into contenders tier they will have to trade one of Bosh or Andrea as they are the biggest trade assets

[isyed]

Just posted this in another thread, Capologist please correct anything if I'm wrong.

And there's the rub with this deal. If the raps release everyone they can (Marion, Parker, Joey, Jawai, Solomon, & Voskhul) that leaves the raps with:

Bosh, Bargs, Jose, Kapono, Banks, Hump, Ukic and this years 1st round pick (8 players) which their salaries end up at 46mil give or take 1/2 a mil depending on where the 1st rounder lands.

High side of the 09-10 projected cap is 61-62 million, low side 59-60 depending on revenues, the economy, and player salaries (remember there are quite a few very big contracts expiring this year and those players won't get 1/2 what they make now).

So, all that said the Raps could have anywhere from 13 - 16 million.

But wait, if you execise Joey's qualifying offer that adds 3.4million to the 46 which brings down the cap amount to between 9.5 & 12.5

IF Marion resigns for say 8 and Joey is still here that will leave 1.5 to 4.5 mill to sign 2 more players to make the minimum 12 man roster.

Here's the kicker now, IF you re-sign Marion to say 12 a year and keep Joey, the MLE and LLE kick in. So if BC overpays Marion, they have more money to actually sign those last 2 players.

Why do you think Marion is open to re-signing here all of a sudden?

You don't need to overpay Marion because you are forgetting about Delfino, who has a caphold, too, around $5 million like Joey.

Here's a scenario using $47,476,000 million for nine players as a base. That includes $1.25 million for our pick - it could be up to $500,000 higher, but we'd have to hit an amazing lottery jackpot for it to rise any more.

Okay.

Sign Marion for $7 million - subtotal $54.5 million
Sign Joey for $3 million - subtotal $57 million
Sign Carlo D for $4 million - subtotal $61 million
Use full MLE ($5.4 million) - subtotal $65 million
Sign bench big ($1 million) - subtotal $66 million
Sign Printezis ($500,000) - substotal $67 million

That's 15 players, with about $3-4 million left under the tax.

Or we could not sign Printezis, but use $3 million to re-sign AP as a bench guy.

The key is, who is the MLE guy?

Or, we don't use the MLE, but do some kind of contract trade, shorter (let's say JK) for longer, taking back $6-7 million.

So we'd be

C - AB, Bosh, Bench big, Jawai
PF - Bosh, AB, Hump
SF - Marion/Delfino/Kapono/
SG - MLE/Delfino/pick
PG - Jose, Roko, Banks

This is one scenario where we keep spending close to the tax limit. The MLE player could also be a big. Our first round pick would be BPA.

No matter what, we're bound to be deeper overall with any version of this scenario.

Who the MLE player is would have a big bearing on how much better

Now, we could also go the cap space route, renounce everyone, make on significant signing, and then add very cheap players. That wouldn't let us spend as much overall.

Thanks for posting that. The latter should not be an option for 2 reason A) there are no significant free agents who could be considered as star players unless you believe Marvin William is that B) The minor moves and min players around would not be good enough to field a good enough team going forward.

I like you original idea of resigning Marion, Joey, AP, Delfino and maybe Rasho with LLE. The MLE is a a key player and the next trade that BC does/not do will indicate what the MLE might be used for. If Joey and AP are traded then the MLE is most certainly will be used for a wing player. Maybe Childress? If No one significant is traded and kept till the offseason then a big might be our answer. The big might be Darko. Darko for the full MLE might be a solid player. Still young and a nice player to be the 3rd big behind Bosh and Bargnani.

Edit: Darko is not a free agent next year. My mistake. But another big could be had using the full MLE.

[_venom_]

I would be MORE than happy if after this offseason we have a team of:

C Bargs/Varejao (MLE)/Jawai
PF Bosh/Humphries/Scrub
SF Marion/Delfino/Graham/Printezis
SG Henderson (1st rder)/Kapono
PG Calderon/Ukic/Banks

That just shows you how problematic JO's contract is in regards to our finances. If our owners had no problem going over the luxury tax then you could easily justify keeping JO but since we can't go over the tax, trading JO had to be done.

[isyed]

I would be MORE than happy if after this offseason we have a team of:

C Bargs/Varejao (MLE)/Jawai
PF Bosh/Humphries/Scrub
SF Marion/Delfino/Graham/Printezis
SG Henderson (1st rder)/Kapono
PG Calderon/Ukic/Banks

That just shows you how problematic JO's contract is in regards to our finances. If our owners had no problem going over the luxury tax then you could easily justify keeping JO but since we can't go over the tax, trading JO had to be done.

Forgot about Varejo.

If Varejo opts out we can offer a full MLE for 5 years. Varejo would be a perfect 4/5 behind bosh and bargs.

[Courtside]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a team automatically lose its MLE and LLE if it's under the cap? The only way to use the MLE is if we keep Delfino's and Graham's cap holds, which would put us over the cap. But in that instance, we HAVE to re-sign Marion, because we won't be able to sign anybody else. Good leverage for Marion's agent.

By re-signing Joey (say 3 years $10 mil) and bringing back Delfino (say 3 years $12 mil), you're essentially replacing their cap holds with actual values - which is OK.

You're partly right about Marion also. In order to be able to use the MLE and LLE, he would either have to be re-signed or signed-&-traded. The remainder of this season is essentially a tryout period for both the Raps and Marion, but if he expects anything more than the MLE on the open market, he better start treating it as a contract audition. I think a 4 year $30 mil deal is reasonable for Marion, though 3 years $25 mil would be even better. If he plays his brains out, then he's much more easy to sign & trade, in which case we can set the value of his next contract to work within the parameters of a trade for other players currently under contract.

It's hard o say who would want him, but the fact remains he's a very good uptempo player, very good rebounder and decent everywhere else. The thing is his age and apparent lack of effort in Miami since they weren't willing to give him a big extension. That mindset should go out the window with this trade since he'll have to earn any new contract with his play.

[Local_NG_Idiot]

Thanks for posting that. The latter should not be an option for 2 reason A) there are no significant free agents who could be considered as star players unless you believe Marvin William is that B) The minor moves and min players around would not be good enough to field a good enough team going forward.

I like you original idea of resigning Marion, Joey, AP, Delfino and maybe Rasho with LLE. The MLE is a a key player and the next trade that BC does/not do will indicate what the MLE might be used for. If Joey and AP are traded then the MLE is most certainly will be used for a wing player. Maybe Childress? If No one significant is traded and kept till the offseason then a big might be our answer. The big might be Darko. Darko for the full MLE might be a solid player. Still young and a nice player to be the 3rd big behind Bosh and Bargnani.

Edit: Darko is not a free agent next year. My mistake. But another big could be had using the full MLE.

Pachulia, Wilcox, Bass (a little undersized), and Gooden are about the best the unrestricted FA class has to offer. That's pretty much the order I'd be offering them the MLE as well.

[AB_21]

Question for resident capologists:

Should we let go of all bird rights, how much money do we have to spend to fill how many roster spots.

[cookieman]

You have to wonder if BC has already discussed the terms of a possible extension with Marion's agent, and if this played a major factor in the trade. We know he's hinted at keeping the player hey acquires (likely a Marion reference). So I suppose the real questions are - what does Marion command in an extension, and what 2 guards might sign for the MLE?

[CPT]

Can someone do a comparison of where we would be capwise if we had not traded for O'Neal in the first place, and where we are now?