Can we now say Chris Bosh isn't the one to blame?

jay632 · Post #21 » by **jay632** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 3:36 am

bosh is not at fault, team team surrounding him is uterly disapointing. calderon is playing half ass for some reason, bargs is invisible during defense. and our best player is a rent a player pops umsul bumsul.

Trax416 · Post #22 » by **Trax416** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 3:45 am

He is one of the top PF's in the NBA.

He is the only player in the NBA who is top 10 in PPG and RPG. Only PF who is top 5 in FTA/FTM. Leads the league in 30-10 games. Averages better numbers in every single category save for one, then former MVP Dirk.

It's not Bosh's fault. Bosh is putting up similar numbers to Tim Duncan and KG at this stage in their career.

What do people expect from him? Seriously, Raptor fans are horrible.

Death Knight · Post #23 » by **Death Knight** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 3:48 am

F this thing about surrounding Bosh with better players. Bosh is the one that needs to surround others. Bosh is a second banana. Why the hell would you try to surround players around a second banana? You only surround first bananas.

Lay_U_Out · Post #24 » by **Lay_U_Out** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 3:54 am

disahstar wrote:
boshjonesford wrote:The team sucks bosh is ok, dude is shooting 50 percent from the field and avraging 23 and 10 thats solid

if you repleace him with
Al jerferson
Tim Duncan
Kevin Garnett
Elton Brand
Lamarcus Aldridge
Pau Gasol

our record would still be similer (we would be a bad team)

its not bosh at all its the coaching and the players that are around him (Bosh is the only player who doesn't have another guy avragin at least 15ppg, Andrea is like 14.6)

We target our best players when the team plays bad (ala - paul pearce, kobe, Dawene, Andre Iggi at the beginning of the year)

our couching and supporting cast / bench is horrible bosh is fine.

guy, did you finish school??

+1 lol.

But seriously, Bosh has never been the real problem on this team. Does he have some flaws? Yes, as does almost every player in the NBA...the only difference is Bosh does not have the supporting cast to hide his flaws. But 20+ ppg and 10 rpg are pretty solid numbers if you ask me.

If Bosh was a creator of the bounce like Kobe, LBJ and Wade his numbers would look that much better as he might make his teammates that much better. But we can't really fault a guy for not being a creator if that's not what he's here to do.

Mufasa_Reloaded · Post #25 » by **Mufasa_Reloaded** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 3:57 am

I said this on the PC board but it's really not Bosh being a pussy that's stopping him in 4th quarters and important moments. It's the fact that he scores in two ways (mid range j, drive from top of key), which makes him very easy to lock down on if you want to, which is most often in 4ths when everyone knows we're going to go to him no matter what

The way to fix this would be to recognize teams doing this when they begin and then take advantage of it through going to other players and avoiding Bosh. Of course in the Smitch/Triano era that's rocket science to their 2 + 2s.

The big solution of course is a scoring wing who can facilitate and break down the offense so we don't have to rely on Bosh... but of course we've wanted that for years

J-Roc · Post #26 » by **J-Roc** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 3:58 am

I think people are still missing the main point. We need to decide SOON if this guy is a max player. His defense is brutal and he still hasn't developed a back to the basket game, which will be crucial when he starts to lose his quickness advantage.

Mufasa_Reloaded · Post #27 » by **Mufasa_Reloaded** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 4:01 am

Short answer: He's not. Long answer: If he learns how to play defence and pass out of doubles with a good coach, he might be. But after 6 years can a change like that happen?

But in truth I don't think Bargnani is being traded anytime soon and maybe rightfully so at his cheaper price and the fact that he could be right there with Bosh next year, and we absolutely CAN NOT compete with this Bosh/Bargnani thing, so that combined with Bosh's flight risk, age, and knees, I say moving CB is the overwhelming correct decision.

Trax416 · Post #28 » by **Trax416** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 4:03 am

J-Roc wrote:I think people are still missing the main point. We need to decide SOON if this guy is a max player. His defense is brutal and he still hasn't developed a back to the basket game, which will be crucial when he starts to lose his quickness advantage.

He is a Max player, but we don't have the team for a max player. We would be better of getting an all-star and two high quality players to go with this years Pick, Jose and Andrea, then we would be going max, 130 million for Bosh and signing a bunch of scrubs to help him.

34_fifty · Post #29 » by **34_fifty** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 4:07 am

no one sane ever said bosh is no use to the team.....whoever said it was high or just dont watch enough basketball or just trying to be rebels...w/e imo this should be locked

TheMainEvent · Post #30 » by **TheMainEvent** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 12:23 pm

I never BLAMED Bosh for the team's crappiness. I blamed the team... everybody that was on this team this season is to blame. I would think most people had the same sentiments.

But I did blast Bosh for disappearing for a month and a half, when the team needed his production the most. There's a big difference there.

lemondrop · Post #31 » by **lemondrop** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 12:44 pm

Wether he is or isn't the #1 problem we still have to worry about him leaving in 2010 because there is a very real chance he is gone in one year not because of the fans but because he simply doesn't like it here much. Aside from this season the mass majority of fans in Toronto have shown Bosh noting but love throughout his career and I have yet to hear any Bosh sucks chants in the ACC. So I think you are blowing this up bigger than it actually is and I maintain my belief that Bosh is leaving in 2010 so regardless if he is the problem or not he needs to be moved before he walks for nothing. For the record though I don't think he is the #1 problem but he is part of it and some of the blame goes to management for trying to build around player of his style.

ldnk · Post #32 » by **ldnk** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 1:28 pm

Yes, this isn't Bosh's fault that the team sucks. However, how did this recent stretch lead you to this conclusion? You create a thread with absolutely no content when there are 300 threads on this subject already.

Bosh is a large part of the problem with the play of this team because he is the leader but he also backs down when facing a tough opponent. His numbers aren't good against the top teams and he shies away from physical defense. The fact that Bargnani gets stuck guarding the Yao's and Shaq's of the league while Bosh gets to stay away from them speaks enough for Bosh being a part of the problem. The guards are the big issue with the team but Bosh is not blameless.

J-Roc · Post #33 » by **J-Roc** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 2:05 pm

I guess this thread is based on the last game, where Bosh went off for points and free throws, but where he again was bad on D and we lost.

BangorB · Post #34 » by **BangorB** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 2:09 pm

Simply, the team is not good enough!

andrew2good4u · Post #35 » by **andrew2good4u** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 2:41 pm

I stopped reading after "babies and dumbasses"
How do u expect people to take u seriously?

Natural11 · Post #36 » by **Natural11** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 2:53 pm

raptorballa wrote:Its obvious that you don't watch a lot of raptors games. Is bargs bad? Is bosh bad?
If you think ppl who put up 15+ points and about 9+ boards for most games are bad, then your dumb?

Like most others said, its the bench, not Boah nor Bargs

That's almost clueless enough to be considered trolling, but in the event that you're actually serious, the game is a lot more complex than some statistical benchmark outlining good and bad players. You can get a 15/9 and still have a bad game if your team loses by 20 and you play horrible defense. That's always been the achilles heel with these recent Raptor teams - Defense.

Sure the bench is terrible, the coach unproven, but the bench aren't the ones closing out 4th quarters and failing every time. I wasn't calling Bosh 'bad' and I didn't even bring up Bargnani, but until they start to play hard defense to go along with their pretty stats, they aren't winning any accolades from me. No one is exempt from criticism on a lottery-bound team.

zilby · Post #37 » by **zilby** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 4:10 pm

no. he is.
kthxbye

ZeriousLy · Post #38 » by **ZeriousLy** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 4:11 pm

J-Roc wrote:I guess this thread is based on the last game, where Bosh went off for points and free throws, but where he again was bad on D and we lost.

Seriously what is "bad on D"? I thought he played great individual defense on both Haslem and O'Neal. I don't think it's his fault his teammates allow Dwayne Wade to constantly get into the paint.

Black Milk · Post #39 » by **Black Milk** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 4:12 pm

Trax416 wrote:He is one of the top PF's in the NBA.

He is the only player in the NBA who is top 10 in PPG and RPG. Only PF who is top 5 in FTA/FTM. Leads the league in 30-10 games. Averages better numbers in every single category save for one, then former MVP Dirk.

It's not Bosh's fault. Bosh is putting up similar numbers to Tim Duncan and KG at this stage in their career.

What do people expect from him? Seriously, Raptor fans are horrible.

They expect Jose Calderon's level of play out of him, only then would he be exempt from criticism. :roll:

ZeriousLy · Post #40 » by **ZeriousLy** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 4:16 pm

lemondrop wrote:Wether he is or isn't the #1 problem we still have to worry about him leaving in 2010 because there is a very real chance he is gone in one year not because of the fans but because he simply doesn't like it here much. Aside from this season the mass majority of fans in Toronto have shown Bosh noting but love throughout his career and I have yet to hear any Bosh sucks chants in the ACC. So I think you are blowing this up bigger than it actually is and I maintain my belief that Bosh is leaving in 2010 so regardless if he is the problem or not he needs to be moved before he walks for nothing. For the record though I don't think he is the #1 problem but he is part of it and some of the blame goes to management for trying to build around player of his style.

Yes, you are absolutely right LETSCREATETHEBUILDAROUNDBARGNANICLUBTOGETHER.