GM: Raps listening to Bosh offers more seriously

[rise of raptors]

Trading a team's only star for depth is one of the worst moves a team can make. No matter how hard the Raptors are finding it hard to find depth to surround their stars with they will find it a helluva lot harder to find stars to surround depth with. Get a team that can win ~35 games a season without a star and that team is dead for the next decade as they will never get a top 5 pick and won't make the playoffs, either. If the Raptors trade Bosh for depth and don't open up a single opportunity to get a star then they're basically contenting themselves with no better than the first round of the playoffs for as long as they keep those assets together.

Bosh for depth would be worse than just letting Bosh walk for nothing, imo. This offseason, the Raptors could keep Marion, use their MLE on a better player than Kapono, Parker, Garbajosa or Fred Jones and actually get a good player with their 9th pick this time around. Suddenly, that team actually does have depth. If they get those things wrong? They're the same team as last season. Trade Bosh for depth and they're suddenly trying to find a star for Marion, the MLE and the 9th pick. That's a lot less likely than finding depth with those assets, and if you can get stars for those assets then why on earth would you trade Bosh in the first place instead of surrounding him with the star(s) those assets had provided?

Heck, Bargnani and Calderon could also be traded for depth. Why would the team be so dumb as to put depth around lesser players by trading their best player rather than putting depth around their best player at the expense of lesser players? I don't think there is a good answer to that question, yet I'm still a little suspicious that the Raptors might wind up going in that direction anyway.

I think you're right, would be a bad move to trade CB just for "depth." That's why in any package for Bosh, I think we have to get back a young player with high upside or a pick to draft such a player. This may include guys such as Beasley or Randolph, or in the draft: Rubio, DeRozan, Jennngs etc. If we don't get such a player, we'd be pinning all our hope on Bargnani to be "the man."

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

if bosh hasn't developed his 'roar' yet he won't ever develop it.

Brief and to the point. I like it.

[TiKusDom]

Lee+ 8th + Gallo is a very solid offer, a helluva lot better than the crap GSW are putting on the table.

I thought you prefer Biedrins over Lee? Also, it gives us a higher chance to nab one of Evans or DeRozan or we can trade up and try to get Harden.

NY will probably have to throw in +3 million in cash and maybe a future unprotected first. If GSW is only offering a bunch of scrubs + Biedrins then I prefer this package. They "wont" as they claim give up Randolph and monta is a tweener with no defined role who I want no part of . I'm more open to the to the idea of having Lee.

[Yuri Vaultin]

Lee+ 8th + Gallo is a very solid offer, a helluva lot better than the crap GSW are putting on the table.

I thought you prefer Biedrins over Lee? Also, it gives us a higher chance to nab one of Evans or DeRozan or we can trade up and try to get Harden.

NY will probably have to throw in +3 million in cash and maybe a future unprotected first. If GSW is only offering a bunch of scrubs + Biedrins then I prefer this package. They "wont" as they claim give up Randolph and monta is a tweener with no defined role who I want no part of . I'm more open to the to the idea of having Lee.

Lee is great to have on a fantasy league team (I know, because I did) however, he plays crappy defence and can't shoot. His only skills seem to be rebounding, lay-ups and dunking. I find Lee to be over-valued and will soon be grossly over-paid. Gallo is the best part of your proposed deal, but even then he has just had back surgery, which makes me kind of leary.

[J Dilla]

This second Banana, batman robin crap is overrated, and it's been overused on Bosh lately. It's not his fault our idiot GM has failed to get him a second banana for 4 years now. I have a feeling he'll get a bunch of rejects again this off season and expect to be a winner. Get Bosh another star and this team will be so much better. Remember how much people hated Carmelo? Now that he's had a winner in Billups, everyone loves him now.

[Reignman]

I would hope a Bosh trade addresses depth and a few positions and not be a desperate lunge at a maybe franchise player.

Trading a team's only star for depth is one of the worst moves a team can make. No matter how hard the Raptors are finding it hard to find depth to surround their stars with they will find it a helluva lot harder to find stars to surround depth with. Get a team that can win ~35 games a season without a star and that team is dead for the next decade as they will never get a top 5 pick and won't make the playoffs, either. If the Raptors trade Bosh for depth and don't open up a single opportunity to get a star then they're basically contenting themselves with no better than the first round of the playoffs for as long as they keep those assets together.

Bosh for depth would be worse than just letting Bosh walk for nothing, imo. This offseason, the Raptors could keep Marion, use their MLE on a better player than Kapono, Parker, Garbajosa or Fred Jones and actually get a good player with their 9th pick this time around. Suddenly, that team actually does have depth. If they get those things wrong? They're the same team as last season. Trade Bosh for depth and they're suddenly trying to find a star for Marion, the MLE and the 9th pick. That's a lot less likely than finding depth with those assets, and if you can get stars for those assets then why on earth would you trade Bosh in the first place instead of surrounding him with the star(s) those assets had provided?

Heck, Bargnani and Calderon could also be traded for depth. Why would the team be so dumb as to put depth around lesser players by trading their best player rather than putting depth around their best player at the expense of lesser players? I don't think there is a good answer to that question, yet I'm still a little suspicious that the Raptors might wind up going in that direction anyway.

Couldn't have said it better myself. People seem to think we're going to get a better player than Bosh in a trade and that ain't happening. Even if the Clips coughed up the number 1, are there any guarantees that Griffin ends up better than Bosh? I'd say he'd be lucky to end up as good as Bosh.

Trading your best player is never a good thing, I thought the fanbase would have realized that by now.

[Canuck9]

Trading a team's only star for depth is one of the worst moves a team can make. No matter how hard the Raptors are finding it hard to find depth to surround their stars with they will find it a helluva lot harder to find stars to surround depth with. Get a team that can win ~35 games a season without a star and that team is dead for the next decade as they will never get a top 5 pick and won't make the playoffs, either. If the Raptors trade Bosh for depth and don't open up a single opportunity to get a star then they're basically contenting themselves with no better than the first round of the playoffs for as long as they keep those assets together.

Bosh for depth would be worse than just letting Bosh walk for nothing, imo. This offseason, the Raptors could keep Marion, use their MLE on a better player than Kapono, Parker, Garbajosa or Fred Jones and actually get a good player with their 9th pick this time around. Suddenly, that team actually does have depth. If they get those things wrong? They're the same team as last season. Trade Bosh for depth and they're suddenly trying to find a star for Marion, the MLE and the 9th pick. That's a lot less likely than finding depth with those assets, and if you can get stars for those assets then why on earth would you trade Bosh in the first place instead of surrounding him with the star(s) those assets had provided?

Heck, Bargnani and Calderon could also be traded for depth. Why would the team be so dumb as to put depth around lesser players by trading their best player rather than putting depth around their best player at the expense of lesser players? I don't think there is a good answer to that question, yet I'm still a little suspicious that the Raptors might wind up going in that direction anyway.

I think you're right, would be a bad move to trade CB just for "depth." That's why in any package for Bosh, I think we have to get back a young player with high upside or a pick to draft such a player. This may include guys such as Beasley or Randolph, or in the draft: Rubio, DeRozan, Jennngs etc. If we don't get such a player, we'd be pinning all our hope on Bargnani to be "the man."

Im not sure I agree 100% with that, I think we need to get a young established player back who is signed for 4 or 5 more years so we dont have to go through this situation again.

I would bet if we dealt for beasley he would walk in 2 or 3 years, I cant see him staying in canada.

[Reignman]

Trading a team's only star for depth is one of the worst moves a team can make. No matter how hard the Raptors are finding it hard to find depth to surround their stars with they will find it a helluva lot harder to find stars to surround depth with. Get a team that can win ~35 games a season without a star and that team is dead for the next decade as they will never get a top 5 pick and won't make the playoffs, either. If the Raptors trade Bosh for depth and don't open up a single opportunity to get a star then they're basically contenting themselves with no better than the first round of the playoffs for as long as they keep those assets together.

Bosh for depth would be worse than just letting Bosh walk for nothing, imo. This offseason, the Raptors could keep Marion, use their MLE on a better player than Kapono, Parker, Garbajosa or Fred Jones and actually get a good player with their 9th pick this time around. Suddenly, that team actually does have depth. If they get those things wrong? They're the same team as last season. Trade Bosh for depth and they're suddenly trying to find a star for Marion, the MLE and the 9th pick. That's a lot less likely than finding depth with those assets, and if you can get stars for those assets then why on earth would you trade Bosh in the first place instead of surrounding him with the star(s) those assets had provided?

Heck, Bargnani and Calderon could also be traded for depth. Why would the team be so dumb as to put depth around lesser players by trading their best player rather than putting depth around their best player at the expense of lesser players? I don't think there is a good answer to that question, yet I'm still a little suspicious that the Raptors might wind up going in that direction anyway.

I think you're right, would be a bad move to trade CB just for "depth." That's why in any package for Bosh, I think we have to get back a young player with high upside or a pick to draft such a player. This may include guys such as Beasley or Randolph, or in the draft: Rubio, DeRozan, Jennngs etc. If we don't get such a player, we'd be pinning all our hope on Bargnani to be "the man."

Im not sure I agree 100% with that, I think we need to get a young established player back who is signed for 4 or 5 more years so we dont have to go through this situation again.

I would bet if we dealt for beasley he would walk in 2 or 3 years, I cant see him staying in canada.

I hope this ain't BC's MO or else we're screwed. Our focus should be on building a winner, not worrying about what players will stay or go. If you can't get a guy like CB to stay, then you can't get 90% of the league to stay.

Build a winner around CB and everything will be fine.

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

^ What if CB won't let us, either through lack of defensive effort and ball movement, or by wanting to be the man, or by just wanting to leave at the end of next year. Maybe Bosh is already uncomfortable here with the expectations that are placed on him and and the fans response when it's not met. If he plays next year like he did this year, what will we have?

Sure if we win, everything will be fine and if we lose it will all go to crap, but from what I saw of Bosh this year, he's got a ways to go before he could ever be relied on to lead any team to a playoff victory.

[lemondrop]

We would not be trasding Bosh for depth, we would be trading him because he is leaving Toronto in roughly one years time, the entire sporting world agree's with me. When trading him or if we trade him I would want something more than depth as well but if it goes all the way down to the final days of his contract we won't get much more than depth and at that point depth is better than nothing.

Act now with a team he wants to play for and you'll get more, wait and depth or nothing is what we will be getting.

[pspot]

I think it is a valid point that if the Raps do move Bosh they should be looking for a key piece that is already signed. This franchise needs to win and needs stability, which for the most part come hand in hand but all the contract stuff and 'stars' wanting to leave is a big concern.

I've suggested deals around Okafor or Martin for that specific reason. Great players coming in return that are on good conctracts for the next 5 years

You focus on younger players like Beasily you are just recreating the cycle which this team needs to get out of

[timdunkit]

Couldn't have said it better myself. People seem to think we're going to get a better player than Bosh in a trade and that ain't happening. Even if the Clips coughed up the number 1, are there any guarantees that Griffin ends up better than Bosh? I'd say he'd be lucky to end up as good as Bosh.

Trading your best player is never a good thing, I thought the fanbase would have realized that by now.

Why we shouldn't rebuild? By Timdunkit

Lol i didn't want to make a new thread and just thought this might be the best place to post it (if it gets a lot of chatter, maybe ill make a new thread). Now, I see a lot of ideas here have us getting younger and possibly rebuilding (heck even I admit i have been a culprit of this till I thought about it, why should we rebuild). So here is a couple reasons on why we shouldn't rebuild.

1) Bosh is a semi-superstar ... now a lot of people on this board and some media personal are starting to call Bosh just a "2nd fiddle". I disagree wholeheartedly and I know some of you will disagree with me to. What I think is Bosh is somewhere in between a 2nd fiddle and a superstar, hes not on the level of a superstar but he is DEFINATELY above the level of a 2nd fiddle. What makes me say this? Well first of, people forget the BEGINNING OF THE SEASON! Where Bosh was an absolute beast, he was doing everything even though the team was stumbling ... Here is my take on what happened and if you disagree its fine with me. Bosh was fresh of the olympics and man was he feeling good. He had learned the value of doing the little things and had a chance to play with some great leaders and saw what they did to get better. He was ready to step up and lead the team, and BAM we just made a blockbuster trade for JO. Things it seemed were looking good for us. Bosh came into the season with high hopes and he stepped his game up (man he was definately a beast). But the team just wasn't gelling. JO trade wasn't working out and he got injured (NJ game really turned things around), Bargnani was still Bustnani and he was asked to shoulder bigger loads in losing efforts, AP was slower adn they had no wing help at all or bench at all... Things pretty much went downhill from there. Sam Mitchell gets fired. JO was put on the block and supposedly the team new for 2 months or so that he was probably heading to Miami. Jose got the harmstring injury and we had WILL FRIKEN SOLOMON as the starting PG. The team was losing and (im not sure when his daughter thing started, like the problems) I think eventually he stop thinking basketball first and starting thinking about his daughter a lot. This lead to lackluster efforts, team losing more games and everything just being a wreck ... at the end of the season, the team had a slight turn around, though we beat some god awful teams, Jose was healthy, Marion was fitting in and Bargnani looked like the real deal, I think that when his daughter ordeal went public, he finally seemed to let things out and felt freer. It wasn't a contender, but atleast we were winning games ... but besides all the things that happened, I will not forget the first part of the season. Bosh was a man on a mission and put tried his hardest to put a god awful team on his back and even though he didn't get much success, he still did put the team on his back ... to me he is a semi-superstar, too good to be 2nd fiddle but really needs more talent around him then a superstar.

A lot of people would consider Dirk as a superstar but Dirk has always had so much talent around him. Think of all the guys Dirk has played with (Nash, Prime Finley, Jamison, DHarris, Josh Howard, even two defensive C's in Diop/Dampier, Jason Terry, pass prime Kidd though still good, Bass). Its talent pool that Bosh has never even come close to (the best player he has played with was *before injury TJ Ford*).

2) Bosh and Andrea are just about to enter there primes ... Do we really want to rebuild when arguable our two best players are about to enter there primes? A lot of people think Bosh/Bargs can't coexist but I disagree. They complement each other really well offensively and though we will never be a great defensive team , I think if you brought wing help, they can put more effort on the defensive end (the one thing Mitchell had always said was that Bargs had a lot of potential to be good defensive player) and we can be decent defensively. Bargnani provides Bosh the spacing he needs on the offensive end to be successfull (something that was really obvious wasn't working out with JO) and Bosh provides Bargnani the mismatch that Bargnani need to be successful (the best way to neutralize Bargnani is by putting a PF on him but teams match there PF with Bosh, allowing Bargs to have a mismatch against team's C and SF's).

3) The supporting cast around these two can have drastic changes over the next 2-3 years. What most people don't realize is that we ONLY have one contract past 2011. Now say we retain both of these guys, that makes it 3 contracts pass 2011! Thats when Bosh and Bargnani will still only be 27/26 and still just the beginning of there primes. Those other 12 roster spots can be filled with drastically different players to complement these two and gives us team to find that wing player to play alongside them (not a JJ/Kobe/Dwade, but someone who can handle the ball and create there own shot).

4) A max contract WILL NOT HINDER THE TEAM. People are afraid that a max contract will hinder the team and we won't be able to bring in talent. That is dead wrong! A max contract will not hinder the team. The contracts that really effect a team are ones like Kapono/Banks/Humps who are pretty useless ... but like I have said these guys will be gone in 2 years at the max and Bosh and Bargnani will only be the beginning of there prime. People will cite the Minny situation with KG. We are totaly differnet then them because a) people forget the Jo Smith Fiasco which resulted in the lost picks b) managment refusal to give Billups/Marbury/Cassel/Sprewell contracts (overpaid but real talent) and c) giving Mike James/Blount/hassel long contracts ... KG's contract had nothing to do with the teams inability to get talent, it was the fact that the club made boneheaded decisions, gave big contracts to useless players and not to players who were real talent which resulted in losing a lot of flexibility. But we have no such thing, the bad contracts on our team will be gone when B&B will be in there primes, BC it seems has learned to be more careful and let the market dictate the price for players and lastly, like i have mentioned, BC has the flexibility to change hte player personal dramatically over the next 2-3 years ...

5) The importance of establishing a winning culture ... This is one thing I believe is extremely underrated on realgm. You can rebuild all you want but if you can't win down the road, it becomes quite pointless. Winning should be the utmost priority for this franchise. Why?
a) We becomes more of an attracted for free agents but not only those guys but guys BC is trading for (isn't this one of hte reason he went with JO rather then Gerald Wallace?)
b) We need to give this team some positive history ... what are we remembered for? Losing VC, TMAC, Damon Stoudamire, Camby? About to lose Bosh? losing in general? ...
c) first round exists is better then nothing ... why? Because your franchise learns from it ... not only the players but the GM and personal that work behind them as well. You get to experience what playoff basketball is like and see what it takes to win. Its also the perfect time to learn about your weaknesses (because in playoffs teams emphasis more on exploiting you)and how you can correct them for next year. The fact is, we haven't had that kinda of experience for a franchise ever ... we have always been concerned with whats on top of the stairs rather then looking at each step and thats why we find ourselves constantly looking from the bottom up ... so what if we only get half way up the stairs? Atleast its better then what we had before ...

Alot of these reason are debatable and I know many people here disagree with me but it was fun writing this. I believe that a contender is build in differnet stages, some teams fast forward and go through stages fast (i.e. Boston) and some teams go through slow (Portland). We are closer then we think but all we need is time and patience ...

The End

Have some patience , clear the junk around Bosh and replace them with good players and there you go ... You have Bargnani/Bosh and one contract pass 2011. What I would do is look to get Bosh/Bargnani extended! Marion resigned for 8 mill 3 yrs or close to it. Draft one of the holy trinity (i.e. Derozan). Resign Delfino for 3 years 10 mill. Resign AP for 2 yr 5 mill. Use the LLE on Rasho. Use the MLE on Barnes/Ariza/Jones/Childress/Felton ! So for next year team you have:

Usefull - Bosh, Bargs, Jose, Marion, Pick, Delfino, AP (off the bench) , Rasho, MLE guy , Roko

Scrubs: Jason Kapono, Marcus Banks, Kris Humphries, POB, Jawai, Douby

POB/Jawai expire next season, as well as Douby who is only partially guranteed. Since we would have 16 man roster, I guess you can choose not to pick up on Douby. I doubt Jawai sees much playing time but just keep him (he only makes 700k). Humps had the injury, Im not sure how he will come back but he can be serviceable to us atleast as a body and same wit POB. Bosh/Bargs will get 60-66 minutes of the 96 minutes available at the PF/C spot. That leaves 30-36 minutes available for Rasho/Humps/POB/Jawai. Rasho and Humps will get 15-20 minutes so POB/Jawai are just bodies.

Depending on which MLE guy we get, each brings different tools. Jones/Ariza/Childress/Barnes will either start for us at the SG spot (with Delfino being the back up) or will back up the 2/3 spot of the bench in a 6th man role. AP will act as 3rd string behind both the 2/3 spots. So you effectively have Marion/Derozan/Delfino/MLE guy / AP at the 2/3 (pretty sexy compared to what we had last year ... Moon/AP/Kapono/Graham). Watching AP play PG was nice, so I think he can act as the vet PG if need be but I'd give Roko another chance at the back up PG spot (we also have ball handler's in Delfino who could help out by handling the ball wth Roko on the floor). There all decent defenders and rebounders also ...

Now the other MLE guy we can get is Felton. Felton would regulate Roko to the scrub list and can act as back up PG/SG to a starting backcourt of Jose/Delfino. He would also get a lot of freedom to do what he wants with the 2nd unit (the 6th man role is getting more popular these days ). He gives us a playmaker/scorer on that unit and could really help lead a strong bench. This would leave our wing rotation at just Marion/Delfino/AP/Pick with Felton being able to play the two at times. Wht I like about Felton then the other MLE guys , is the ability to playmake/score (something we deserately need of the bench). Either way, the MLE will give us a key contributer !!

How to get rid of the scrubs?
Banks is not movable at all for now. Kapono can be moved but i would keep him unless we get 2010 expirings or nothing past 2011 (i.e. Reggie Evans for Kapono?). Humps is a toss up, he can stil be a nice big of the bench for us. The one thing that all these guys have in common? THey expire in 2011 where they have value as expirings contracts after next year. Jawai/POB will expire in 2010 so they will be gone then. If we do a Reggie for Kapono swap, we can replace them with Evans (rebuonding Machine). What we would eventualy need is a 6th big man which we can look to replace through a trade in 2010 summer/2010-2011 season or use the MLE again.

Assets!

The idea is to replenish your assets so that some of them are atleast serviceable and have positive value of some sort. The only two guys I would consider untouchable are Bosh/Bargnani. 2009-2010 season will be a wash in terms of making major moves (unless somethng happens wiht Bosh but we have assumed we would keep Bosh). In 2010/2011 season you should have:

Expiring contracts - AP/Rasho/Humps/Kapono/Banks
Serviceable players - Delfino/MLE guy/Marion/Jose
Picks - Derozan/future picks

Needs - a playmaker on the wing / 6th big ....

[I_Like_Dirt]

[Im not sure I agree 100% with that, I think we need to get a young established player back who is signed for 4 or 5 more years so we dont have to go through this situation again.

I would bet if we dealt for beasley he would walk in 2 or 3 years, I cant see him staying in canada.

(a) Beasley would be a restricted free agent so he couldn't walk.

(b) If you're operating out of the kind of fear and insecurity then you may as well fold the franchise as they would truly be a glorified farm team for the rest of the NBA. People need to get over this "we're better than the rest of Canada but yet looked down on by the US" attitude that seems to permeate Toronto sports society. Ultimately, the Raptors may have some issues but if they built a winning team for a change they wouldn't have a problem keeping, and even signing, players. Whether it's Bosh or another player, the Raptors need to show some competence when it comes to adding quality players without using top 9 picks - something they really haven't done ever in franchise history - and their fortunes would turn around dramatically.

[Reignman]

[Im not sure I agree 100% with that, I think we need to get a young established player back who is signed for 4 or 5 more years so we dont have to go through this situation again.

I would bet if we dealt for beasley he would walk in 2 or 3 years, I cant see him staying in canada.

(a) Beasley would be a restricted free agent so he couldn't walk.

(b) If you're operating out of the kind of fear and insecurity then you may as well fold the franchise as they would truly be a glorified farm team for the rest of the NBA. People need to get over this "we're better than the rest of Canada but yet looked down on by the US" attitude that seems to permeate Toronto sports society. Ultimately, the Raptors may have some issues but if they built a winning team for a change they wouldn't have a problem keeping, and even signing, players. Whether it's Bosh or another player, the Raptors need to show some competence when it comes to adding quality players without using top 9 picks - something they really haven't done ever in franchise history - and their fortunes would turn around dramatically.

LOL, ILD, you're saving me from a lot of typing today.

[I_Like_Dirt]

Seriously, when you think about it, in the Raptors' history, they haven't had a single player even worth the full MLE that they didn't either use a 9th pick or better on or trade a 9th pick or better for. Damon, Vince, Bosh, TMac, Bargnani, Camby, all drafted top 9. They traded a top 9 pick for AD. They traded Camby for Oakley. They traded Charlie for TJ and have now traded down to a declining Marion. They traded Damon for Alvin (and that's pushing the limits of "worth the full MLE"). Look at almost every playoff team right now and you will see at least one guy if not more worth more than the MLE that was obtained without the direct use of a top 9 pick. The only guy the Raptors have ever gotten worth the MLE or more without a top 9 pick was Calderon and he came at a time when the team had blown a bunch of top 9 picks with only Bargnani to show for them. While Babcock blew draft picks, he at least got that part right.

[cdel00]

if bosh hasn't developed his 'roar' yet he won't ever develop it.

Brief and to the point. I like it.

Or pk00 you are wrong and he will develop it.

Bosh is young and still maturing. The mantle of leadership he carries was thrust upon him as opposed to claimed by him. I do see it in his nature to become a leader and we have seen his baby roars from time to time, so we know it’s in him. He just needs more maturation before he fully knows how to wield it.

[I_Like_Dirt]

if bosh hasn't developed his 'roar' yet he won't ever develop it.

Brief and to the point. I like it.

...Bargnani is basically the same age as Bosh. Where is his 'roar'? Jose has a clap but no roar. Where are these gamechangers that Bosh supposedly isn't that are being acquired in a Bosh trade? Are the Raptors trading Bosh for the cowardly lion after he got his heart from the wizard?

[Canuck9]

[Im not sure I agree 100% with that, I think we need to get a young established player back who is signed for 4 or 5 more years so we dont have to go through this situation again.

I would bet if we dealt for beasley he would walk in 2 or 3 years, I cant see him staying in canada.

(a) Beasley would be a restricted free agent so he couldn't walk.

(b) If you're operating out of the kind of fear and insecurity then you may as well fold the franchise as they would truly be a glorified farm team for the rest of the NBA. People need to get over this "we're better than the rest of Canada but yet looked down on by the US" attitude that seems to permeate Toronto sports society. Ultimately, the Raptors may have some issues but if they built a winning team for a change they wouldn't have a problem keeping, and even signing, players. Whether it's Bosh or another player, the Raptors need to show some competence when it comes to adding quality players without using top 9 picks - something they really haven't done ever in franchise history - and their fortunes would turn around dramatically.

toronto isnt the only market that cant keep their high profile players, it happens all over the states as well. You just need to get the right type of player with the right attitude. I thought that was bosh at one point, but if he wants to leave than that is his choice, he feels there is more money to be made in the US for a guy of his stature and personality.

But the players mentioned in these trades (Deng, Okafor, Prince, Biedrins, Martin and Butler) are all guys with contracts beyond 2010 and arent depth players, there are legitimate starters in the NBA who would be a nice start when creating a package for dealing Bosh.

The packages centred around Rubio/Beasley are the ones that are taking huge risks, which will have this franchise likely drafting in the top 3 or 4 next year.

I understand you have to build the best team possible, but you have to have players on your team that actually want to play for Toronto.

[OAKLEY_2]

The packages centred around Rubio/Beasley are the ones that are taking huge risks, which will have this franchise likely drafting in the top 3 or 4 next year.

I understand you have to build the best team possible, but you have to have players on your team that actually want to play for Toronto.

Canuck 9. Do we have an established and secure core which we can say right now needs only tweaks to be a contender? We do? Bosh could be half out the door and Marion must be watching to see what Bosh does. That is 2 of their 3 best players. If we are not staring the total rebuild in the face including the obvious drafting and acquiring solid prospects (which usually constitutes a rebuild) then we are not watching the same team. I would definitely put Bosh in a deal to get Rubio because then we would be worrying about when his prime starts and not some future is now timetable which has expensive quick fixes written all over it. If we can get Rubio and some other young parts in a Bosh package then bring it on. Deal. Yes it is more risky than keeping Bosh but this guy Rubio is pretty much can't miss. He has a chance t be the best player we have ever had. I would think Bosh "considering his options" means they have to look at the future with the same frame of mind.

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

if bosh hasn't developed his 'roar' yet he won't ever develop it.

Brief and to the point. I like it.

...Bargnani is basically the same age as Bosh. Where is his 'roar'? Jose has a clap but no roar. Where are these gamechangers that Bosh supposedly isn't that are being acquired in a Bosh trade? Are the Raptors trading Bosh for the cowardly lion after he got his heart from the wizard?

I've seen Bargs stand up for himself, I've never seen Bosh do the same. Andrea is actually pretty physical with people, especially his defenders. But that's not the point. The way I feel is if Bosh is the best we can get, I say we should start over. I don't have a lot of faith in him, personally. I think he will never "lead" a team to playoff success and I believe his status of" franchise player" on this team creates a leadership vacuum.

I really fell off the bandwagon this year. No question he's a good player and a nice guy, but he really seemed annoyed that fans expect him to play harder, yet the team is supposedly expected by him to be competitive, for him to re-sign. Well if you have a franchise player but still can't be competitive, maybe we should rethink just how good of a franchise we will be, if he does stay. In the two playoffs he's been in, his play seemed to suffer more than raise. If I could search I could show you a post where after the playoffs in 06-07 I said if Bosh doesn't play better next post season, we should look elsewhere when his contract is up.

Here's another of my thoughts on this topic, you know in a relationship usually the roles are sorted out. Now in that relationship, if the roles are challenged or if one person tries to flip the roles and have the "hand" when they didn't have it before, it creates problems. However if you enter into a new relationship, it's easier to assume a new role. I think for whatever reason, CB thinks he's too cool for school here. I think he didn't play D because he lost sight of who plays for who. Like if we didn't win, it was us letting him down, not him letting us down. Put him on a another team, maybe he has a new mindset, but I don't see how, with the same coach he's been around his whole career, for the same team, he's going to magically switch his role to be less of the focus offensively and bring his lunch pail on defense and willingly become that robin, to whoever we can somehow find to come in and save us. I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see it happening.

Also he's around that tool cb4_admin soooo much, they seems to be consumed with being wanna be celebs. I really respected nerdy Bosh, when he was proud of being nerdy Bosh. He doesn't seem to be content to be that anymore to the point where I just think he's putting on airs with his little pal in those videos, and if being a wanna be celeb is where you are going to focus your attention, I would again questions where this improvement is going to come from. Honestly after 05-06 i would have thought Bosh would be more comfortable in his skin, close to his teammates and focused on winning and working hard everyday. This year made me question that. If his value is as high as has been hinted at by BC, my opinion is to cash it in. I don't know how much more success we can have with him. My mind is open though, so I hope CB can prove me wrong if he's here next season.