Jack or Calderon- Who is the better overall pg.

BOSHSMELLS25 · Post #21 » by **BOSHSMELLS25** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:08 pm

I believe that we need perimeter defending and jack provides tat.

trick · Post #22 » by **trick** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:08 pm

Reignman wrote:
Have you ever asked yourself why Jose has such a good ast/to ratio? I know that means thinking a little further but still. I mean, is he a better passer than CP3 / Nash / etc? Or is there more to that stat than meets the eye?

so a pg's ability to covet the ball and make sure each possession counts doesnt amout much? do you even know what a point guard's duties are?

inrapscity · Post #23 » by **inrapscity** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:09 pm

tough call

both Jose and Jack can be streaky shooters and both are just as good as each other when on

Jose's a pass-first and Jack's a score-first but Jose doesn't really create for his teammates. if it's not a pick-and-roll situation, Jose's assists aren't impressive at all.

Jack's wayyyyyyyyyy better than Jose on defense. Jose's just too slow, when he was injured, he was so slow that we all compared him to a pilon.

Pchu · Post #24 » by **Pchu** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:09 pm

Jose. By far. I like Jack, but he is not really a PG. He is much better at SG.

jrsmith · Post #25 » by **jrsmith** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:10 pm

Hank_Scorpio wrote:
jrsmith wrote:
Hank_Scorpio wrote:So I am flipping back and forth between Jack's page on NBA.com and Calderon's and wondering how anyone could even consider asking this question.

youd have to actually have watched calderon play last season to understand

So why don't you enlighten me, oh wise one who has watched Calderon play while I sat in a cave making shadow puppets off the light of the fire I made by rubbing two sticks together.

Are you trying to imply Calderon had a good season last year?

Reignman · Post #26 » by **Reignman** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:10 pm

trick wrote:
Reignman wrote:Calderon is the better point guard while Jack is better at the combo role.

I will say this though, when taking defense into consideration, their overall impact in games isn't that far off from one another regardless of what most on this board will say.

But be prepared for a thrashing, you are talking about the franchise here.

we are all taking defense into consideration, and jarrett jack's "out-of-this-world-nobody-can-get-by-me-talking-trash-while-strip-the-ball-away-from-you" like defense is not enough to suggest that he can calderon are anywhere near equal.

You seem to think there's a huge gap between the two. Both were starting point guards for lottery teams. You should also take salary into consideration when comparing the two, one guy has 4 years / 37 mil owed to him and one guys is set to make 4 / 20.

BTW, I'm not sure you caught my second post, but i'll ask again, why do you think Jose has a better ast/to ration than some of the best point guards in the league?

Hank_Scorpio · Post #27 » by **Hank_Scorpio** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:11 pm

Reignman wrote:
trick wrote:
J Dilla wrote:The only thing I'll give Calderon is that he can shoot better, even though he doesn't take a lot of shots.

the fact that he's leading the league in AST/TO ratio by miles and almost made a league record out of it doesn't grab your attention? really? how about comparing their career assist totals and apg while taking minutes into consideration as well.

Have you ever asked yourself why Jose has such a good ast/to ratio? I know that means thinking a little further but still. I mean, is he a better passer than CP3 / Nash / etc? Or is there more to that stat than meets the eye?

There is, but probably not what you are thinking.

Here's a hint that should point you in the right direction.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/john_stockton/index.html

NoisyCricket · Post #28 » by **NoisyCricket** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:11 pm

Milt Palacio

Hank_Scorpio · Post #29 » by **Hank_Scorpio** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:11 pm

jrsmith wrote:
Are you trying to imply Calderon had a good season last year?

Yes.

Are you trying to imply that he didn't?

jrsmith · Post #30 » by **jrsmith** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:12 pm

oh my someone just compared calderon to stockon. Thats quite embarrasing.

Reignman · Post #31 » by **Reignman** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:12 pm

trick wrote:
Reignman wrote:
Have you ever asked yourself why Jose has such a good ast/to ratio? I know that means thinking a little further but still. I mean, is he a better passer than CP3 / Nash / etc? Or is there more to that stat than meets the eye?

so a pg's ability to covet the ball and make sure each possession counts doesnt amout much? do you even know what a point guard's duties are?

haha, you're gonna teach me about ball? LOL. OK, so you're saying that Jose has a better grasp of each possession and "point guard duties" than guys like CP3 and Nash?

Hank_Scorpio · Post #32 » by **Hank_Scorpio** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:13 pm

jrsmith wrote:oh my someone just compared calderon to stockon. Thats quite embarrasing.

I did no such thing.

But if you have any sense of basketball history, and if you understand the offense that the Raptors use and the offense that the Malone-Stockton Jazz used, then my reason for putting that up there should be clear.

BOSHSMELLS25 · Post #33 » by **BOSHSMELLS25** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:13 pm

JACK WAS SHARING DUTIES WITH FKING TJ FORD so how is he supposed to live up to his potential, they basically split the minutes and he averaged 13 pts per game. While calderon played almost all the minutes for raptors.

jrsmith · Post #34 » by **jrsmith** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:13 pm

Hank_Scorpio wrote:
jrsmith wrote:
Are you trying to imply Calderon had a good season last year?

Yes.

Are you trying to imply that he didn't?

Ill go back to my original statement that youd need to watch games. What did BC call his defense last season, was it atrocious?

Hank_Scorpio · Post #35 » by **Hank_Scorpio** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:14 pm

jrsmith wrote:
Hank_Scorpio wrote:
jrsmith wrote:
Are you trying to imply Calderon had a good season last year?

Yes.

Are you trying to imply that he didn't?

Ill go back to my original statement that youd need to watch games. What did BC call his defense last season, was it atrocious?

No.

http://www.nba.com/raptors/news/colange ... 42009.html

“Our defence, and Jose will admit it, was atrocious in the games that he played (while playing with a bad hamstring). He’s not that bad a defender, Coming into next season with reinforcements behind him, we will be better.”

Hank_Scorpio · Post #36 » by **Hank_Scorpio** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:15 pm

I'm just curious - why do you think I didn't watch the Raptors play last year?

Vinsane15 · Post #37 » by **Vinsane15** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:17 pm

Calderon>>Jack....TJ>>Jack his G-Tech teammate Will Bynum>> Jack

Jack is a solid back up PG, he won't start over Jose.

trick · Post #38 » by **trick** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:17 pm

Reignman wrote:
You seem to think there's a huge gap between the two. Both were starting point guards for lottery teams. You should also take salary into consideration when comparing the two, one guy has 4 years / 37 mil owed to him and one guys is set to make 4 / 20.

okay, there's a reason why 4/20 for calderon is a bargain and 4/20 for jack is borderline overpaying in some minds.

BTW, I'm not sure you caught my second post, but i'll ask again, why do you think Jose has a better ast/to ration than some of the best point guards in the league?

oh here we go, trying to bait me into your point of view.

is jose calderon too slow for my taste? yes. does need to penetrate more? yes. should he look for his own shot more? yes. does he need to take more risks? yes. is he as good as nash/paul/deron as far as a pg is concerend? no, but i didn't realize we were comparing calderon to those players.

this is between Jack and Calderon, and i'd appreciate it if we all could stick to that.

jrsmith · Post #39 » by **jrsmith** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:18 pm

Hank_Scorpio wrote:
No.

http://www.nba.com/raptors/news/colange ... 42009.html

“Our defence, and Jose will admit it, was atrocious in the games that he played (while playing with a bad hamstring). He’s not that bad a defender, Coming into next season with reinforcements behind him, we will be better.”

Doesnt matter why he played badly, point is he had a bad season. We wont know until about 20games into this season if his play was that horrific from injuries or not. Anyone saying he had a good season is completely delusional.

Reignman · Post #40 » by **Reignman** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:18 pm

Hank_Scorpio wrote:
Reignman wrote:
trick wrote:the fact that he's leading the league in AST/TO ratio by miles and almost made a league record out of it doesn't grab your attention? really? how about comparing their career assist totals and apg while taking minutes into consideration as well.

Have you ever asked yourself why Jose has such a good ast/to ratio? I know that means thinking a little further but still. I mean, is he a better passer than CP3 / Nash / etc? Or is there more to that stat than meets the eye?

There is, but probably not what you are thinking.

Here's a hint that should point you in the right direction.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/john_stockton/index.html

OK, that's actually a great example. Stockton made a living off the PnR, actually he was the master at the PnR with Malone and having Hornacek waiting on the perimeter. Now I'm guessing you watched ball in Stocton's hayday, compare the passes he made out of that PnR to the passes that Jose makes on the same play. From what I recall, Malone got a ton of inside shots (dunks/layups/in-close J's / fouls) out of it.

Also, comparing the passing ability of Stockton to Calderon is not only a huge insult to a HOF'er but also any knowledgeable basketball fan.