OT: Heat might not sign a max player next year

[Shaazzam]

Riley is a winner. I wouldn't count him out just yet.

I always questioned the way he took over Miami from Stan Van Gundy the year they won. Everyone uttered all the right platitudes, but it seemed awful convenient to take over a contending team part way through the season after Stan had put in the time for the previous 3 seasons.

Of course, or course. SVG is a great coach and I wouldn't doubt he got pushed out. I also wouldn't be surprised if there were some players involved in that as well(pure speculation no proof.)

But Riley built that team as an exec and he coached them to a ring. Hence, he's a winner.

[Bargnagasm]

Where are all the posters that were saying that BC got owned by Riley in the O'Neil trade?

[YogiStewart]

i guess one can argue what a true winner is.
is Sloan a winner? I'd say, on first glance, hell yeah.
Riley WAS a winner, no doubt. and perhaps he should get credit for the Heat performing as "well" as they did last year because, to be honest, their starting 5, minus Wade, is pretty ungreat.
but you can argue that he brought in that starting 5. and you can argue he's done nothing to date to improve the Heat for this year.
so once a winner doesn't mean you always a winner. ask Mike Keanan.

[Shaazzam]

But Riley built a team that won a ring only four seasons ago. We aren't talking about him only winning with the Lakers.

I'm not even saying he is going to do something miraculous that takes MIA back to the EC Finals. All I'm saying is that he has the proven track record for me to not count him out.

but I'm personally betting on Miami becoming a completely dysfunctional franchise this year and, subsequently, the years to come.

I think there is a strong chance you are correct, but there is a reason why I don't bet. And it's that I'm a pretty cautious cat. And I'm not going to be betting against a guy with his record.

He's a cat who has a great player and is willing to jump at the chance to make the move that will put his team over the top.

Now, is he more than a move away? Yes.

But I don't think he is someone who the game has passed by.

[Legal Non-Conforming]

for wade it will come down to miami or ny. if lbj goes to ny wade stays in miami. if lbj stays in cleveland i see wade moving to NY, i think he feels slighted that he isnt mentioned in the same breath as kobe/lbj.

The top two destinations will be Chicago and Dallas because they have the supporting cast to win a championship. None of the big FA's are going to sign with the Knicks. Why would they? The Knicks don't have anyone other than D'Antoni.

[YogiStewart]

But Riley built a team that won a ring only four seasons ago. We aren't talking about him only winning with the Lakers.

I'm not even saying he is going to do something miraculous that takes MIA back to the EC Finals. All I'm saying is that he has the proven track record for me to not count him out.

but I'm personally betting on Miami becoming a completely dysfunctional franchise this year and, subsequently, the years to come.

I think there is a strong chance you are correct, but there is a reason why I don't bet. And it's that I'm a pretty cautious cat. And I'm not going to be betting against a guy with his record.

He's a cat who has a great player and is willing to jump at the chance to make the move that will put his team over the top.

Now, is he more than a move away? Yes.

But I don't think he is someone who the game has passed by.

see, i discount the trade for shaq. basically, the Heat were the only destination at the time. and the Lakers got back Odom, Butler, a 1st round pick and Brian Grant. while having 2 future allstars for one of the greatest players to play the game isn't necessarily the best trade, it was the only trade the Lakers could make. so the Heat were going to win with that trade no matter what.

i don't really call Riley a genius or a winner for that deal. for managing the Wade-Shaq relationship? maybe. but Shaq was dropped in the Heat's lap.

anyways, i hate his hair.

[Shaazzam]

But Riley built a team that won a ring only four seasons ago. We aren't talking about him only winning with the Lakers.

I'm not even saying he is going to do something miraculous that takes MIA back to the EC Finals. All I'm saying is that he has the proven track record for me to not count him out.

but I'm personally betting on Miami becoming a completely dysfunctional franchise this year and, subsequently, the years to come.

I think there is a strong chance you are correct, but there is a reason why I don't bet. And it's that I'm a pretty cautious cat. And I'm not going to be betting against a guy with his record.

He's a cat who has a great player and is willing to jump at the chance to make the move that will put his team over the top.

Now, is he more than a move away? Yes.

But I don't think he is someone who the game has passed by.

see, i discount the trade for shaq. basically, the Heat were the only destination at the time. and the Lakers got back Odom, Butler, a 1st round pick and Brian Grant. while having 2 future allstars for one of the greatest players to play the game isn't necessarily the best trade, it was the only trade the Lakers could make. so the Heat were going to win with that trade no matter what.

i don't really call Riley a genius or a winner for that deal. for managing the Wade-Shaq relationship? maybe. but Shaq was dropped in the Heat's lap.

anyways, i hate his hair.

I hear what you are saying and I try not discount actions that lead to results. He might have had everything working in his favor, and have more assets then than he does now, but he still got the deal done, and that deal helped win them a ring.

Let's also not forget that he got 'Zo after we bought his ass out, and 'Zo might have been as equally important as the Shaq Daddy in the 'chip.

[Yuri Vaultin]

[Shaazzam]

I now have the Peter Gunn theme song in my head.

What an awesome game that was.

[YogiStewart]

i hated the part where the side of the road became all bumpy (this is the game where you would jump your car across water and try to land on other cars, right?)

[Shaazzam]

It's Spy Hunter.

[FluLikeSymptoms]

Of course they won't, they can't.

They'll have Beasley, Cook, and Chalmers under contract, plus two mid-late 1st rounders and that's it. They need 8 players just to make the min and Wade has a huge cap-hold.

[JN]

"If you go back to the last time that we had significant (cap) room," said Riley, "we were able to sign Alonzo Mourning, Juwan Howard, P.J. Brown, Dan Majerle and Tim Hardaway, all in one year. Why do I want to take a big chunk of money and give it to one guy? Why wouldn't I want to spread it around to get two or three starters that fit better?"

Amusing how Riley gives himself credit for signing those players that year, when at least one, Juwan Howard, was signed to an illegal contract which was voided by the league.

Pat is like the pretend GM's here. who wants to criticize the GM for not making a certain move, when it can't even be completed under the CBA.

[timdunkit]

Of course they won't, they can't.

They'll have Beasley, Cook, and Chalmers under contract, plus two mid-late 1st rounders and that's it. They need 8 players just to make the min and Wade has a huge cap-hold.

Wade's caphold wouldn't matter ... Once Miami gets a FA to agree, Wade will resign with the team and then the FA will sign (to avoid all technicalities).

I think a lot of you are underestimating Miami's ability to sign an FA and the attraction of it. They aren't like the Knicks who basically fabricated the ability to sign two max free agents. Miami can not only sign another max free agent but also have 5-7 mill left over to spend on another player. The players they have on contract then are all good role players. A part of me thinks that the reason why we underestimate Miami is because how bad our relationship is with Miami fans with the whole Bosh-to-Miami thing and how Miami fans tend to be just as negatively bias to TO as TO fans are to them. But make no mistake, Miami will be a huge player next year and if they can nab 2 good players, they can add the right role players the year after.

[dacrusha]

I tend to agree with Riley: the Heat are better off splitting $20-23 million on 3-4 good players rather than $17 million on one with the rest to get one mediocre player plus a roster full of minimum vets.

[FluLikeSymptoms]

Of course they won't, they can't.

They'll have Beasley, Cook, and Chalmers under contract, plus two mid-late 1st rounders and that's it. They need 8 players just to make the min and Wade has a huge cap-hold.

Wade's caphold wouldn't matter ... Once Miami gets a FA to agree, Wade will resign with the team and then the FA will sign (to avoid all technicalities).

I think a lot of you are underestimating Miami's ability to sign an FA and the attraction of it. They aren't like the Knicks who basically fabricated the ability to sign two max free agents. Miami can not only sign another max free agent but also have 5-7 mill left over to spend on another player. The players they have on contract then are all good role players. A part of me thinks that the reason why we underestimate Miami is because how bad our relationship is with Miami fans with the whole Bosh-to-Miami thing and how Miami fans tend to be just as negatively bias to TO as TO fans are to them. But make no mistake, Miami will be a huge player next year and if they can nab 2 good players, they can add the right role players the year after.

If Wade's cap-hold were small, couldn't they sign other FAs first and spend way more money?

And wouldn't that 5-7 million would have to go to 6 players, to make the minimum of 13?

[timdunkit]

Of course they won't, they can't.

They'll have Beasley, Cook, and Chalmers under contract, plus two mid-late 1st rounders and that's it. They need 8 players just to make the min and Wade has a huge cap-hold.

Wade's caphold wouldn't matter ... Once Miami gets a FA to agree, Wade will resign with the team and then the FA will sign (to avoid all technicalities).

I think a lot of you are underestimating Miami's ability to sign an FA and the attraction of it. They aren't like the Knicks who basically fabricated the ability to sign two max free agents. Miami can not only sign another max free agent but also have 5-7 mill left over to spend on another player. The players they have on contract then are all good role players. A part of me thinks that the reason why we underestimate Miami is because how bad our relationship is with Miami fans with the whole Bosh-to-Miami thing and how Miami fans tend to be just as negatively bias to TO as TO fans are to them. But make no mistake, Miami will be a huge player next year and if they can nab 2 good players, they can add the right role players the year after.

If Wade's cap-hold were small, couldn't they sign other FAs first and spend way more money?

And wouldn't that 5-7 million would have to go to 6 players, to make the minimum of 13?

What I meant was that if Miami wanted to sign a free agent and Wade's huge caphold is in the way, they could remove it by resigning Wade. The FA would have to agree to sign with Miami (kind of like Turkeyglue with TO) but not sign. Then Wade can evaluate the team or the FA and if its a big FA and then Riley can be like "Wade can you sign the contract so we don't have to renounce because of your cap hold and then we can sign this guy" . Wade would help avoid the technicality of his caphold.

As of now, Miami would be on hold for 30 mill across:

Chalmers/?
Wade/Cook
James Jones/?
Beasley/?
Joel Anothony/?

So they would have 6 guys on contract (they could renounce James Jones he is partial gurantee but I won't). After you add 6 slot caphold, Miami theoretical is counted against for 3 mill and 33 mill in total. Now I am going to go wit the modest estimate that the cap will go down to 55 mill. That means a 30% max player has a contract that starts at 16.5 mill. Add that to the 33 mill and you have a total of 49 mill (drop 500 k since you now have 7 players instead of 6). That leaves you a good 6 mill to spend. You could split it into 2 3 mill contracts for some decent role players. You have to remember that Miami not only has the cap space but they also have the luxury of been a tax-free state or whatever (I don't know the numbers but a 3 mill there is worth a lot more then 3 mill in NY or TO for example). Lets say for argument sakes the FA is Amare. Then add in two good role players for 3 mill (lets say 1 C and 1 wing). By this point majority of your line up is complete and your rotation is complete. The one good thing Miami has going for them is that Cook/JJ/Joel Anthony/Chalmers are actually useful players. Miami can even flip James Jones for anotehr player with similar contracts (meaning it has no effect on there cap but the other team can use JJ's contract to save money while giving Miami the better player).

[MEDIC]

Not sure why so many are jumping all over Riley for this comment. It's not like he stated that he has no plans on spending money.

He already has one of the most prolific scorers in the NBA on the roster. He needs to surround him with more talent.

I'm on Riley's side with this one. I would rather spend 25 million on 2-3 very good players, rather than 1 allstar (See LAL). Wade has shown to be capable of carrying this team to the playoffs. All he needs is some improved talent around him.

[There There]

I tend to agree with Riley: the Heat are better off splitting $20-23 million on 3-4 good players rather than $17 million on one with the rest to get one mediocre player plus a roster full of minimum vets.

In a typical year, yes. With all the potential cap space available across the league though, what kind of value are you going to get spreading 20-23 million across 3-4 players ?

If Riley is not looking for a big impact max salary signing to go along with Wade, then I don't understand why he moved an expiring Marion for O'Neal. He could have made a play for someone like Turk/Ariza/Artest this summer to improve his team for next season, and as a result the chance of Wade sticking around, and still have cap space available next summer for perhaps another two signings.

[hype_2004]

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/content/sports/epaper/2009/09/08/a1c_george_0909.html

For instance, he might not spend all of his loot next summer on any one particular star, such as Toronto's Chris Bosh.

"If you go back to the last time that we had significant (cap) room," said Riley, "we were able to sign Alonzo Mourning, Juwan Howard, P.J. Brown, Dan Majerle and Tim Hardaway, all in one year. Why do I want to take a big chunk of money and give it to one guy? Why wouldn't I want to spread it around to get two or three starters that fit better?"

Back we go, then, to the waiting game, which is so much tougher for a star to master than the game of basketball.

If lebron calls all bets are off, Riles would be running around like a headless chicken trying to sell Lebron te beauty of South Beach, fast cars, fast women, the nightlife, the overall scene, the low taxes I mean who can beat that?