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Raptor players who are defensive liabilities

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Mustard_Tiger
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Re: Raptor players who are defensive liabilities 

Post#21 » by Mustard_Tiger » Wed Oct 7, 2009 2:35 am

Volcano wrote:TJ started over one of the most efficient PG's in the league and he was a defensive liability most of the time, plus he was streaky + inefficient and didn't know how to manage a team.

How is that any sort of a validation in starting Jack over Calderon? If anything, that's a reason not to do it.

If it's not working out with Jose starting, we shouldn't try out another passable role playing PG because...?

It's pretty simple...Jose Calderon is a better basketball player than Jarrett Jack. And he's actually a true point guard.
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Re: Raptor players who are defensive liabilities 

Post#22 » by Mustard_Tiger » Wed Oct 7, 2009 2:40 am

Tofubeque wrote:Quite possibly.

Don't give up hope now, man! It's only preseason.

Now stop acting like they were absurd promises made by our management or coaching staff. The bar is set high for a reason; the team will be held accountable if they're not reaching it.

What does "held accountable" even mean in the NBA? What can the coaches do? Bench Jose Calderon, Chris Bosh and Andrea Bargnani?

No, this is the team Colangelo has built and Triano will eventually have to accept its limitations.
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Re: Raptor players who are defensive liabilities 

Post#23 » by Spicy P » Wed Oct 7, 2009 2:45 am

Jose Calderon. We need to trade this guy for a good shooting guard and start Jarett Jack. This guy get lit up by the opposing point guards every night.
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Re: Raptor players who are defensive liabilities 

Post#24 » by Mustard_Tiger » Wed Oct 7, 2009 2:47 am

SalamiNCheez wrote:Jose Calderon. We need to trade this guy for a good shooting guard and start Jarett Jack. This guy get lit up by the opposing point guards every night.

If you start Jarrett Jack, he will also get lit up by opposing point guards every night.
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Re: Raptor players who are defensive liabilities 

Post#25 » by Volcano » Wed Oct 7, 2009 2:50 am

Mustard_Tiger wrote:How is that any sort of a validation in starting Jack over Calderon? If anything, that's a reason not to do it.


You said the Raps weren't going to do it..well, they've done something similar before. How do you know they won't do it again? You can't state it as a fact, when you actually don't know if they'd experiment with it or not.

Mustard_Tiger wrote:It's pretty simple...Jose Calderon is a better basketball player than Jarrett Jack. And he's actually a true point guard.


He's not a better b-ball player until he starts playing better. You can't say someone's better now based on projection or distant past and not look at the present and recent past. Jose over Jack is also a subjective point of view. JJ provides better defense and lane penetration.

If Jose continues to play into the season as he is doing now (defensive sieve, poor playmaking ability), he's definitely not a better play than JJ. My initial point was to wait and see how Jose does before making any judgement. So, in response to my scenario, you're saying if Jose's a worse player than JJ into the course of the season, Jose should still start because..."It's pretty simple...Jose Calderon is a better basketball player than Jarrett Jack." That doesn't make sense, you contradicted yourself.
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Re: Raptor players who are defensive liabilities 

Post#26 » by Romaniano » Wed Oct 7, 2009 2:52 am

knickerbocker2k2 wrote:I see some fans have already started scapegoating certain players.

NBA defense is all about TEAM DEFENSE. One player doesn't make a bad defensive team. A good defensive team can have 1-2 regular bad defenders and still be good defensive team.

It is all about scheme and team defense. Our problem is not that Jose can't play defense. Our problem is that we just aren't good defensive TEAM.



Wrong.

The fact that Jose is such a pylon, he really is...honestly I am not even over-doing this. I see good Highschool ball players being able to score on him 15 points a night, hes just THAT bad. When he lets a guard drive to the basket that easily, it creates how many opportunities for the wings and even down-lo when the rest of the defence has to react when they come down the middle? Think about it.
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Re: Raptor players who are defensive liabilities 

Post#27 » by andreasleo » Wed Oct 7, 2009 2:59 am

Holy crap calm down. It's one pre-season game, Jose only played 16 minutes and DeRozan never played an NBA game before. Neither are close to being ready to play yet, but they will be by opening night. Jose is our starter. DeRozan will play fine. Now calm down...this part of the season is for evaluating the team, not players.
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Re: Raptor players who are defensive liabilities 

Post#28 » by Mustard_Tiger » Wed Oct 7, 2009 3:03 am

Volcano wrote:You said the Raps weren't going to do it..well, they've done something similar before.

No, they haven't done something similar at all. Back then Calderon wasn't getting paid like he is now, and wasn't an established starting PG.

Telling me that they started Ford over Calderon (TJ was getting paid more and was an established starter just like Calderon is now) is just another reason the Raptors would probably stay with Jose through any possible struggles.


He's not a better b-ball player until he starts playing better. You can't say someone's better now based on projection or distant past and not look at the present and recent past. Jose over Jack is also a subjective point of view. JJ provides better defense and lane penetration.

He is a better basketball player. Watch the games (and not the meaningless preseason ones). If it's really necessary to look at their stats, the same conclusion would be made.

If Jose continues to play into the season as he is doing now (defensive sieve, poor playmaking ability), he's definitely not a better play than JJ. My initial point was to wait and see how Jose does before making any judgement.

What is all of this based on? 20 minutes in a meaningless preseason game? Think about what you are saying.

That doesn't make sense, you contradicted yourself.

No, I didn't. Calderon is a better player than Jack. That's why he should start. And even if he wasn't a better player, he would still start anyway.
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Re: Raptor players who are defensive liabilities 

Post#29 » by Mustard_Tiger » Wed Oct 7, 2009 3:05 am

Romaniano wrote:The fact that Jose is such a pylon, he really is...honestly I am not even over-doing this. I see good Highschool ball players being able to score on him 15 points a night, hes just THAT bad.

Yeah...not really.
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Re: Raptor players who are defensive liabilities 

Post#30 » by jrsmith » Wed Oct 7, 2009 3:07 am

Mustard_Tiger wrote:
SalamiNCheez wrote:Jose Calderon. We need to trade this guy for a good shooting guard and start Jarett Jack. This guy get lit up by the opposing point guards every night.

If you start Jarrett Jack, he will also get lit up by opposing point guards every night.


Naw, he will be bad-average. Like the rest of the pgs in the league. Manuel is in a class of his own, and no one can see him.

While I take almost nothing out of these preseason games, it was quite sad and astonishing seeing a guy get exposed by guys going 50% out there. Having watched the whole game, he was absolutely atrocious on defense, no one being nearly as horrific.
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Re: Raptor players who are defensive liabilities 

Post#31 » by Mustard_Tiger » Wed Oct 7, 2009 3:09 am

Yeah...I think I'm about done arguing about a meaningless preseason game that I didn't bother to watch for obvious reasons.
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Re: Raptor players who are defensive liabilities 

Post#32 » by KING567 » Wed Oct 7, 2009 3:32 am

Jose was crappy.

I still think he needs a chance to work his game before we just throw him aside and start Jack.

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Re: Raptor players who are defensive liabilities 

Post#33 » by nikeone » Wed Oct 7, 2009 4:03 am

KING567 wrote:Jose was crappy.

I still think he needs a chance to work his game before we just throw him aside and start Jack.

Peace


Agreed. We need to give Jose some time but one thing is for sure. This team will go no where with Jose Calderon playing defense the way he did last year and the way he did tonight in London. Preseason or not its time for our boy Jose to step up and d up or we will be in for another pg controvsery rather quickly and likely another disappointing year.

This isn't something new either. We should all know Jose by now after several years with the Raptors. His defense needs to become atleast avg and for the past few years and tonight it was beyond horrible.

It wasn't even a minute into the game and Lou Williams blew by him like a pylon for a layup and 1 and my nightmares of last year creeped into my head.
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Re: Raptor players who are defensive liabilities 

Post#34 » by timdunkit » Wed Oct 7, 2009 4:09 am

Ahhh ... the season is almost here ...
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Re: Raptor players who are defensive liabilities 

Post#35 » by positivetension » Wed Oct 7, 2009 4:20 am

The highs and lows of preseason are going to be painful. Wait until the season starts and wait until we have a rotation that resembles something that we'll be putting out on a nightly basis.
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Re: Raptor players who are defensive liabilities 

Post#36 » by Avenger » Wed Oct 7, 2009 4:46 am

Jose Calderon was as usually horrendous on the defensive end today. My favorite parts were the Iggy three when he left him wide open in the corner on back to back possessions and the one where he couldn't stay infront of 6' 11" Speights.
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Re: Raptor players who are defensive liabilities 

Post#37 » by Assassin_1 » Wed Oct 7, 2009 5:09 am

Okay they played their starters nine minutes more than us and we are missing 2 of our top 3 players I'm pretty sure we can beat these guys despite our crappy defense which will probably improve once Belinelli and DeRozan get some action and Wright is back in the rotation healthy again. Its all good right now so why panic? It was just a night where we had everyone on the roster playing double digits in minutes I think you know your not going to do well when that happens.
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Re: Raptor players who are defensive liabilities 

Post#38 » by Ted Lasso » Wed Oct 7, 2009 10:20 am

KING567 wrote:Jose was crappy.

I still think he needs a chance to work his game before we just throw him aside and start Jack.

Peace


Instead of picking a random number beside KING each time you registered, you should've gone in order. That way we could've all kept count of how many times you got banned. It would been a mildly exciting sideshow. How is your brother doing by the way?

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Re: Raptor players who are defensive liabilities 

Post#39 » by KING567 » Wed Oct 7, 2009 10:29 am

Chandler Bing

How about you speak on the topic instead of going offtopic with your stupid remark.

I know your trying to be funny and "Cool" on a Basketball forum but really grow up.

If you have a problem with something I have said attack the post, not the poster.

This is the only time I will respond to you. I give everyone, one chance this is the only post you have today, says alot about where your mindset is.

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Re: Raptor players who are defensive liabilities 

Post#40 » by [SJJ] » Wed Oct 7, 2009 11:41 am

Guess we're not making the playoffs
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