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Re: My Raptors Starting 5 (why we should change)
Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:54 pm
by Rapsalot
I would go this way:
5 Bargs with Rasho or Evans back up
4 Bosh Bargs Amir
3 Hedo Wright DD
2 Wright DD Marco
1 Jack and Jose split the time based on match up and play
Re: My Raptors Starting 5 (why we should change)
Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:02 pm
by Test of Wills
DrFunk wrote:Test of Wills wrote:I know what you're trying to say and I understand your perspective but that starting 5 you mentioned lacks a few things.
Firstly Amir is not big enough to bang down low with some of the bigger centers in the league, he is more suited to defend long and athletic 4's and 5's. He is a hustle player who is doing great off the bench thus far in the preseason.
There is also no real threat to make shots from long-range CONSISTENTLY other than Hedo. I also think Calderon will be at his best when Hedo is on the floor, he will have time to play off the ball and make shots and get inside. So Hedo and Caldy should bond quickly and often.
Another thing is if you're going to start Jack you should start him beside Belli who is a threat from the outside. It's good to have a nice mix at the guard spots and I think DD and Calderon work well and Belli and Jack work well for various reasons. Having 4 new players surrounding Bosh in the starting line-up is going be a set-back and will take this team more than a month to gel if that is the case.
These are a lot of things to consider but to sum it up it is a good logic but it won't get us where we want to be.
I know Amir is undersized to guard the big 5's but for the first time in a long while I saw opponents not challenge inside while he was out there. I counted 3 possessions where he didn't even have to shot block but just intimidated them into a fadeaway (what most of our raps do), so was thinking more along the lines of rebounding/defense.
Your right though about the outside shooting, and just because of that you'll prob need to put Bargs in there, I know Jose's injured etc... but even at his best I'm still not convinced that Jack is not a better option at the starting 5. Understand this is strictly from a defensive concern, I know the original line up can flat out score but there's going to be nights where the shots don't go in and I'd hate for us to have a slow 1st quarter start to play catch up vs the elite competition is all.
But like I said Turk is the X factor and we'll see how he fares with Jose defensively together.
You see I think we need continuity with our starting lineup.
Yes. Amir has the ability to alter shots and get his nose dirty for hustle rebounds but what we gain in rebounds we also lose on the offensive side of the ball. Teams will certainly sag off Amir and dare him to take that jumpshot. If you seen the game today you already seen the opposing team doubling Bosh early and often, and with that we are going to need a lot of ball movement.
And I agree with you that Turk is going to be the X factor and that if there is going to be a change in the starting lineup it should start at the PG spot because Calderon is not man-ing up like he said he woul but that is a discussion for another day. Also you didn't take notice about how surrounding 4 new players with Bosh is going to take A LOT of time for this starting 5 to gel completely.
I get your logic with defense first but I don't think that starting 5 will let us win games.
Re: My Raptors Starting 5 (why we should change)
Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:04 pm
by barrist
its hilarious how we get a "new starting line-up" thread after every preseason game..
Re: My Raptors Starting 5 (why we should change)
Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:24 pm
by HighOctane
Rapsalot was the only person so far to even bring up Antoine Wright.
It's hard to take things seriously when you're missing a probable starter at the SG perhaps because he hasn't shown up in preseason.
My Starting 5
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:23 pm
by Childlike
I think after looking at both the post-game and practice write ups, The Raptors' Starting 5 should look some thing like this
PG: Jose Calderon (because he is still better than Jarett Jack as a shooter and a creator for others)
SG: Sonny Weems (he hustle like crazy, doesn't need the ball to get his shots, rebounds and attacks the rim)
SF: Hedo Turkoglu (he's simply the best at this position)
PF: Chris Bosh (simply the best at this position)
C: Amir Johnson (Again great hustle player, very active defensively, rebounds, blocks shots and doesn't need the ball to create shots)
I think that would allow the Raptors to have the most balance lineup of offensive power and defense. I don't think I would mind much if the Weems was replaced by Bellini or DeRozan in the course of the season if those two prove to be better defensively than they currently are but right now, Wems IS the better player to start games and set a good tempo to the game.
Re: My Starting 5
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:31 pm
by Upgrayedd
I don't really see why you're starting Amir at Center here. For one he's not really big enough for that position, and secondly although Amir has been having a good preseason so has Bargs. So it's not like Amir has even outplayed Bargs for the starting job.
Re: My Starting 5
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:33 pm
by timdunkit
Isn't Andrea simply the best at his position to? Well Rasho is better but Rasho wants to spend time with the kids, so he is going to allow Bargs to play 30 minutes a game ...
Re: My Starting 5
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:56 pm
by A_wildstabatanything
LOL. Anything to get Andrea out of the starting lineup eh?
Same guy was pushing for a Bargnani/Gay trade all summer. Did a C&P job on numerous messageboards.
Re: My Starting 5
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:58 pm
by Korr
Bargs is primed for a big year and you want to take him out of the lineup?
Re: My Starting 5
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:11 pm
by 5DOM
Did Bargnani get a career ending injury?
Re: My Starting 5
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:29 pm
by RonaldArtest
What's with juggling Bargs in and out of the starting 5? Smitch, is that you?
Re: My Starting 5
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:52 pm
by Ka5p3r
RonaldArtest wrote:What's with juggling Bargs in and out of the starting 5? Smitch, is that you?
HAHA =D
honestly WHY ON EARTH would you get bargs off the bench...he's a shooter that can get hot, and we cant let him cooldown after the pregame shoot around!! amir on the other hand doesnt shoot very much and we dont need him to...his hustle play will not cool down....so i think the lineup should be...
Calderon
Weems
Turkoglu
Bosh
Bargnani
I like weems as a starter for now because yesturday when he was on the floor we were DOMINATING washington's starters...haha
i would expect demar to get a good chunk of minutes however at the SF/SG spot (combined)
and Demar seems to be improving EVERY game!
...GO DD!
Re: My Starting 5
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:56 pm
by cdel00
Amir's strength is aggression, his weakness in fouls. If you put him in too early then he must reduce his aggression. Put players in to max their strengths as mask their weaknesses.
Re: My Starting 5
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:00 pm
by CenturySam
I dont think anyone in their right mind would replaces Bargs in the starting lineup with Amir...at least this year.
Re: My Starting 5
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:31 pm
by Indeed
Funny how Bargnani was getting 1pt per minute without Bosh, and played well with Amir J and Marco B.
Jack also played well with Bargnani, maybe he gets more space to drive, while the middle seems to be wide open (you just need to beat your man).
Bargnani seems to play better help defense with Marco B as well. He went over and take the weak side as Marco's man drove by him. But Bargs is having little trouble against PF that drives by him (he probably can't guard Amere or other faceup PF).
I am not saying Bosh is the problem at the moment, and of course its just the beginning of the pre-season, as Bosh has time to improve his defense (against Jamison 20pts?).
And I don't think Bosh should be starting at the bench (like the OP suggested where Bargs should be).
With Bargs on the floor, DD seems to able to get to the line. Well, not just DD, Weems and Evans as well. See if this is how Bargs' presents influence the opponent defense, or if it is just pre-season.
But for OP, I think Bargs and DD played better than Bosh. Maybe your lineup should be:
PG: Jack
SG: Weems
SF: Turkoglu
FP: Evans
C: Johnson
Wait, that's our bench, nvm.
Re: My Raptors Starting 5 (why we should change)
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:43 pm
by Indeed
I wouldn't put Wright as a starter, but he should end most of the game in the first half of the season.
DD would be the starter, until opponent tighten their D.
Re: My Starting 5
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:52 pm
by Throwback Jack
Bargnani has been invested into the future.Big mistake IMO but what control does this guy have.
Isolating him in in yesterdays 2nd Q was evidence about where he should really be in the line-up(off the bench) but the obvious is to start him....Bosh,Hedo & Ann-drea are not complimentary to each other in a starting 5 ,add to that the athletic DeRozan & suddenly you have inbalance.
Personally opening nite will be Bosh,Hedo,Bargs,Wright & Calderon but Triano will soon find out the stumbling mismatch they will have vs. Cleveland.