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Raptors will not be ready for start of regular season

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Re: Raptors will not be ready for start of regular season 

Post#21 » by Yosemite Dan » Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:28 pm

barrist wrote:And wasn't BC skewered for saying this could be a 50 win team, but now tempering early expectations is loser talk?


I know people complain that the posters here are got needlessly spooked about 2 bad losses to the Celts and especially the Rockets because it's only preseason but it seems that BC got spooked himself. I guess he saw what alot of us saw. A really bad defensive effort and mirrors what the team has always been like. If you can't see a good defensive effort in preseason when you're fresh and excited and see the same old problems it would be cause for worry. The big problem wasn't that they were confused on defense, they just didn't seem to care, which is a recurring theme.
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Re: Raptors will not be ready for start of regular season 

Post#22 » by nikeone » Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:35 pm

I'm not liking the feeling of this preseason and team at all right now.... At first they told us we gonna win 50 and be this great new team. They told us we got smart players who will grasp it all quickly yet they all looked confused and slow. Bosh told us he never worked harder and gained 20lbs of muscle yet he looks completely out of shape to me and I doubt he gained 20lbs. They told us we want to be a top 6 defensive team but we look like we couldnt defend a d league team. They told us we have great new three point shooters but oddly enough we cant even hit those. Bosh told us he wants to play defense this year with his stronger body yet he is looking worse than ever on that end of the floor. Jose told us it was all because of the injury and we will see a new great Jose this year yet he looks his same usual horrible self on the defensive end and just as passive on the offensive end. Basically we were told the raptors are going to be a player and a contender this year throughout training camp.

Now after watching these cats play and look extra ordinary in the preseason we are beginning to see this team say "its preseason, relax" "we may not be god out the gate, relax" "expect to struggle for a while, relax"

Jay Triano is beginning to bother me a bit with his preseason stratedgy. He has admitted to not installing any offense yet, he is showing a stubburness not to adjust when he says we will play one defensive way no matter what and allow the outside shots. He has yet to get a feel really or play the regular rotation some good minutes to see what they can do and gel together. We are 11 days away from the regular season and this team quite frankly looks completely out of shape and compleetely confused as to what the hell is going on.

At the start of training camp the goal from this team from their own mouths was to be 100% ready for day one. Now it appears the team is going to tell us it will not be ready to compete until December?

Unacceptbale in my eyes, if this team is not ready on day one it will be seen as a failure of the coaching staff, management and players.
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Re: Raptors will not be ready for start of regular season 

Post#23 » by timdunkit » Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:35 pm

Yosemite Dan wrote:
timdunkit wrote:
KG1585 wrote:They had a month of training camp and if they still can't be ready for the season is kind of ridiculous. This would have been the perfect year for the team to go to Europe. The big three's first season with the Celtics, they went to Europe, I think that brought them together and they had good chemistry right at the start of the season.


I don't think that there not ready ... its just there not lubricated and smooth yet. Some teams take time to gel and some teams need more time to gel. Its a learning process no matter what way you spin it. The Mavs took some time to gel with Kidd but the Lakers got along quickly with Gasol.

The Raptors didn't just bring in 9 new faces, they brought in an entire new system. Bosh/Bargs/Jose have as much to learn as the other 9 new guys because they played in the old system for 3 years.


I can almost guarantee when you watch the Raps this year thier offensive system will look exactly the same . High pick and rolls, alot of standing around while Bosh swings the ball with his hands from side to side and alot of 3 pointers in the 4th quarter. In essence the same systme we've had for 3 years because that's the only way the type of players we have can be effective. Remember Turk is another jumpshooter on a starting lineup full of jumpshooters. On defense there will be alot of preaching to the media that we just need to communicate on defense. We just have to talk and we'll be fine.


I would agree with most of what your saying but a few things have changed.
1)This team is running a lot more for easy baskets.
2) The ball movement is improving. What made the 06/07 team so good was because no one kept there hands on the ball forever. Ever since that year, the ball movement has gotten a lot worse. So far in the preseasons, the ball movement has been a mix of 06/07 season and 08/09 season (where it was just awful).
3) Hedo is a jumpshooter ... but thats not the only thing he can do on offense! This was the huge problem for last year. Hedo can put the ball on the floor and can break defenses down and create shots for his own teammates nad himself. He can also isolate himself on the wing and take his man one on one (no one on last years team could do that consistently from the wing). Like I said, when the ball movement was amazing in 06/07 but teams have scouted us out past few years and realized that they could let Bosh get his but stick on the perimeter and it kills the ball movement.

In theory, all sytems are designed to be perfect but application is a total different thing. There could be slight differences between two systems but on the court a totally different product. Even if we ran Mitchell's system, if we can add these 2 elements, the system could be run better ...
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Re: Raptors will not be ready for start of regular season 

Post#24 » by satyr9 » Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:01 pm

Well, I can accept not being totally coordinated defensively because of all the new guys, but I hate the energy part. I'd much rather have guys screwing up early 'cause they're chasing and getting lost in their assignments. What I hate is when it's obvious they're getting outworked. Now, I won't get pissed about being outworked in a preseason game, get yourself ready don't kill yourself, but if this team struggles out of the gate because other teams just come to play and they're a little flat footed or not in tip-top conditioning, then that sucks.

With all the new faces of course there are going to be a few growing pains in the regular season. Hopefully they can break through them as quickly as possible, but the best way to do that IMO is to work your tail off and make mistakes at maximum effort all the time. By game 10 or so if you're doing the Reggie Evans just work and mess up, then it's time to question whether they're learning everything, but until then these guys need to make up for a lack of time together with pure unadulterated work for 48 minutes. Hopefully that's exactly what happens, 'cause like I said not doing that in preseason isn't necessarily a bad thing, although I admit it looks like a few guys have a ways to go as far as conditioning to even be capable of it. Let's just hope they get a lot done in the last couple weeks of practice.
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Re: Raptors will not be ready for start of regular season 

Post#25 » by steveholt » Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:03 pm

Yosemite Dan wrote:The moment that this team stops using excuses is when they can be successful because at that point the free ride for the players no longer exists. When you say stuff like that it gets into a players' head (or any employee for that matter) you're not really being made accountable and it's not your fault so the effort suffers. To concede they will give up valuable wins in the 1st month of the season which are just as important as those March wins is ridiculous. That's what training camp is for and if it takes an extra effort to get acclimatized to each other then take extra time to do it. When the Lakers acquired Gasol in February which was a drastic change in thier starting lineup and affected the chemistry of thier bench the Lakers didn't whine and say we might crap out the rest of the season. They got the #1 seed and got to the Finals and just did what was expected of them. A sure sign of a winner. The Cavs had a big change with Shaq but somehow I don't think they'll use that as an excuse, they"ll just win. The Celts 2 years ago are also a great example, they just won with a complete overhaul right from the start.

It's like the Blue Jays, it's been drilled into thier heads for years from management that it's almost impossible to compete with the Yankees and Red Sox right from Spring Training and if there are any injuries they have no chance. So when the 1st injury occurs the players subconsciously give up and the intensity goes down even though the Red Sox and Yankess suffer numerous injuries thru the season.

Losers talk, winners just win. If the Raps want to make up a new excuse with saying that everything will be OK if we start 2-10 because this season will parallell the 2006\07 season then we are in for a long season because very few seasons repeat themselves. These same excuses are just really getting old and boring.


Great Post

I totally agree wit u especially about the blue jays . Every year its the same talk but tampa did it last year and it's not that impossible if the players actually believe they can win. Talent never hurts either.
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Re: Raptors will not be ready for start of regular season 

Post#26 » by Raps in 4 » Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:15 pm

This reminds me of the 06/07 season. We had a whole bunch of new faces and we started the season 2-8 IIRC. Then we started to click.
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Re: Raptors will not be ready for start of regular season 

Post#27 » by Volcano » Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:16 pm

If this season doesn't work out, I want one of Bargnani/Bosh to go (well Bosh will most likely want out anyways). We need as least one traditional big with good D playing starter. Your entire defense can look different with intimation in the paint.

Nothingface wrote:
raptormage wrote:
I don't think anyone expects this team to be at their best to start the season. That'll be when the playoffs roll around.


72.9% of this board expects them to be at their best right now!


wow..you couldn't be more wrong..it's 72.8%
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Re: Raptors will not be ready for start of regular season 

Post#28 » by Basketball_Jones » Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:27 pm

To be honest, it's going to be a very rough start by the looks of things. They will probably go 1-5 or something like that. The Mavs started 2-9 last season, this team started 7-14 I believe and won 47 games that big overhaul year. Basically, this board is going to be in full on panace mode for the month of November. Not saying it's unwarranted, this team could still suck after 20 games. But it's better to be somewhat neutral to a lot of things for the first 20 games. Things you think are positive may not last, things that are negative may not last.
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Re: Raptors will not be ready for start of regular season 

Post#29 » by J Dilla » Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:28 pm

Didn't Triano need a full training camp?

I think it's just a smokescreen. I expect this team to start off strong. We have the players to do it.
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Re: Raptors will not be ready for start of regular season 

Post#30 » by bakafool » Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:40 pm

Anyone who thought that they would be ready by the start of the season should be shot. It'll take at least a quarter of the season to really get going. Heck I'm giving them until all star break to really get it all together.
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Re: Raptors will not be ready for start of regular season 

Post#31 » by Kabookalu » Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:07 pm

MASS PANACE!!!!
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Re: Raptors will not be ready for start of regular season 

Post#32 » by teamLeiweke » Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:10 pm

I think they will fall flat on their face in Nov, did you see the first 12 games, I expect 4-8.... and then they will gain a bit of confidence because the sched gets better, and in Dec start to hit their stride a bit and have confidence that they can be a decent playoff team.
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Re: Raptors will not be ready for start of regular season 

Post#33 » by Pchu » Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:31 pm

Even though that may be the truth, I hate it when coaches/GM talk like that. It's giving players an excuse. If the team starts out slow, then this will be used as a crutch. The last thing you need is to give players excuses.
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Re: Raptors will not be ready for start of regular season 

Post#34 » by rtcaino » Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:53 pm

WHAT THE

OOOO MYYYY GAAWWWWDDDDD

jk.

it what it is.

I think any unpreparedness will be exaggerated, given our tougher early schedule. As will our cohesiveness later, given the relatively easier sched.
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Re: Raptors will not be ready for start of regular season 

Post#35 » by Clutch Carter » Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:55 pm

What coach wouldn't prefer a couple more games to work on some stuff? Answer, none.

I'm surprised a mod started such a silly thread.
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Re: Raptors will not be ready for start of regular season 

Post#36 » by Kabookalu » Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:55 pm

Pchu wrote:Even though that may be the truth, I hate it when coaches/GM talk like that. It's giving players an excuse. If the team starts out slow, then this will be used as a crutch. The last thing you need is to give players excuses.


It's not only for the players, but for the fanbase as well. I see it more as damage control for the public.
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Re: Raptors will not be ready for start of regular season 

Post#37 » by supersub15 » Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:56 pm

Clutch Carter wrote:What coach wouldn't prefer a couple more games to work on some stuff? Answer, none.

I'm surprised a mod started such a silly thread.


You are very wise. :bowdown:
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Re: Raptors will not be ready for start of regular season 

Post#38 » by sanity » Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:02 pm

Lol. Triano is just saving face along with management for this team playing like crap to start off the season. A sucky first half of the season can very well determine seeing this team play in the playoffs.

Instead of directing the blame to the staff for being unable to get these guys to work together (money well spent on our 'defensive guru'), we'll just end up blaming the players (Bosh or Jose anyone?)... or, as already seen, point towards - WELL, BY JANUARY THEY SHOULD BE BETTER SINCE THERE ARE 9 NEW PLAYERS.

Don't lower your standards guys. This is professional sports and these guys are being paid a lot of money.
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Re: Raptors will not be ready for start of regular season 

Post#39 » by Philip J Fry » Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:20 pm

Misleading title.

Nowhere does anyone say we "will not be ready", despite Mr. Arthur's attempts to rouse the pessimist crowd. And shame on him for citing the Read to Achieve event as evidence that the guys aren't up to speed. That's just bush.

One other thing: A lot of people seem to be ignoring the idea that this team can (and will) improve as the season progresses. The way we play the first week will not be the same way we play the last week and playoffs. Lots of hand-wringing over nothing, IMO.
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Re: Raptors will not be ready for start of regular season 

Post#40 » by Mustard_Tiger » Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:24 pm

Nice, we've already got a built-in "team chemistry" excuse for our expected struggles against the tough schedule in November. I wonder how long Triano will be able to use it.

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