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Demar DeRozen shouldn't be starting PERIOD

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Re: Demar DeRozen shouldn't be starting PERIOD 

Post#41 » by basketball royalty » Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:45 am

Schadenfreude wrote:
JJWong17 wrote:
Schadenfreude wrote:Here's the thing, though: DeRozan addresses our needs in the starting lineup more than the other two. He is by far the best rebounder, he's surprisingly good at sliding down from the wing to double and contest shots, and he doesn't do anything stupid.

Wright, on the other hand, is 12 pounds of stupid stuffed into a bag designed only for 2 pounds of mild inanity, and while Belinelli is a very good shooter and passer we need those skills with our reserve group (which is somewhat passing-adverse) more than our starters, IMO.

Wright is really that bad? Even defensively? I don't really pay attention to him. I do know he's really stupid on offense but I thought the other side was his expertise.


He can be good defensively, but he has a habit of doing indefensibly stupid things...like allowing Bonner to blow by him for a dunk. As a result, his defensive stats aren't as good as you'd expect.


Still not on board with all the Wright hate around here. I think he has contributed to the team nicely so far.
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Re: Demar DeRozen shouldn't be starting PERIOD 

Post#42 » by Highflyerwire » Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:47 am

Highflyerwire wrote:First off... Good teams don't sub 5 players off at a time. So this 'coming off the bench' stuff, is crap! especially since DD shouldn't be on the court for more than 6 minutes at a time. I could care less what you people see in him, he's not producing. Because neither DD or beli are spectacular defenders I'm not going to talk about those differences but let's just say DD is better because he out rebounds and hustles Marco.

Does DD make Bosh better? No. He's not a play maker, passer or shooter. Even his penetration looks weak.

Does Belinelli make Bosh better? You'd be crazy to leave him open. He's got great handles and play making ability.

Does DD make Calderon better? Maybe a LITTLE bit. He can't make open looks consistently but he can finish around the rim pretty good and cuts hard to the basket.

Anyway I can keep going on like this and belinelli fits in better with our 'good' players in my opinion!

Demar does impress me in crashing the offensive boards so he has that going for him, but belinelli should be getting a lot more minutes at least.

I think we should see how belinelli plays in the starting line up for a few games, then we can actually see how he plays.

I've watched belinelli play and he looks so much like Ray Allen I just get crazy when he doesn't get the minutes he deserves. Start him some games, get his confidence up and I think the team will benefit greatly.

Oh, I've seen a lot of you say Jack should get minutes at the 2 and you guys kind of make me sick... Belinelli is a marginally better 2 guard than Jack, I'd go as far as saying that he's pretty much better at EVERYTHING.

I know my praise is high and some of you probably think i'm over exaggerating, and I probably am with the Ray Allen comparison and everything. I was a big fan of DD but his play is not cutting it - hence the post!

Oh and Wright is a good defender but he's not good enough to compensate for his poor offensive game, watching him try to get to the whole or create has been ugly. We can blame that on a little less playing time in the preseason and in training camp but so far, no good.


I feel like I was writing in some awkward kind of point form... This post was rushed and I apologize for the hard read.
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Re: Demar DeRozen shouldn't be starting PERIOD 

Post#43 » by SharoneWright » Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:06 am

Belinelli in the starting 5 should not be dismissed out of hand either by Triano or this board. The best player at any position should at least be given a chance to fail as a starter before he is pigeon-holed as a reserve due to perceived fit or hypothetical assumptions about chemistry. Right now, MB is the best NBA 2-guard on this team. Byron Scott, for example, was not held on the bench in the Showtime years because Riley already had offense on the floor with Magic, Kareem, and Worthy. Our primary reserves can easily be DD, Wright, Jack, and Rasho who are subbed into the game 1 at a time (we have seen no line changes from Jay so far)- leaving plenty of offense on the court considering at least 2 or 3 of Jose/MB/Turk/CB/Bargs will generally be playing at all times.

I'm not even saying MB has to start. DD is aquitting himself quite well so far. What I'm saying is MB should be given the opportunity based on merit. This is pro basketball. There should be no favourites or annointed ones until the job has been earned. Sends a good message to the players as well... equal parts of fairness and motivation.
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Re: Demar DeRozen shouldn't be starting PERIOD 

Post#44 » by Chpwags » Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:33 am

Belinelli has been the best 2 on our roster but I like him in his role off the bench. I kind of like how the rotation is working for Triano with the exception of Jack getting minutes at the two. Triano also seems to like to go with a line up of Wright, Belinelli, Jack and Johnson along with one of Bosh or Bargnani in the beginning of the second quarter and that line up seems to be effective against the other teams bench. I like that units energy and it allow us to rest 3 of our top 4 scorers without any problems offensively. If you put Belinelli in the starting line up the bench really lacks scoring and it would throw off the entire rotation. Subsituting Belinelli for DeRozan means the second unit would lack shooting and ball handling and could lead to dry spells offensively. I think everyone of Belinelli, DeRozan and Wright are in the role that most suits them right now and we shouldn't make changes. The only thing I want to be done differently is the Jack at the 2 issue which Triano seemed to realize last game.
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Re: Demar DeRozen shouldn't be starting PERIOD 

Post#45 » by Kabookalu » Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:36 am

Right now, MB is the best NBA 2-guard on this team. Byron Scott, for example, was not held on the bench in the Showtime years because Riley already had offense on the floor with Magic, Kareem, and Worthy.


But there are also more recent examples that support Belinelli coming off the bench. Manu Ginobili, Jason Terry, and J.R. Smith, and I bet you if Richard Hamilton wasn't out, Ben Gordon would also be coming off the bench. In the only game that Hamilton was healthy, Gordon was coming off the bench. I'm not entirely opposed to keeping Belinelli on the bench just for the sake of having a scoring punch off the bench, but right now it makes more sense to stick with what we have been doing.
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Re: Demar DeRozen shouldn't be starting PERIOD 

Post#46 » by Jimmy76 » Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:44 am

Derozen looks like the SG version of Shawn Marion

His main problem is that he makes most of his points off the mid-range game which is the least efficient shot to take he needs to extend his range to 3 and try draw more contact when he drives (which he should do as often as possible pass up all but the spot up midrange shots) so he gets FT's

He's been inefficient so far but if he does the above that should be fine

I dont see a superstar in him but i think he'll be a fantastic role player. He defends, rebounds, has good shot selection and a strong sense of a team concept. He's perfect for your starting lineup.
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Re: Demar DeRozen shouldn't be starting PERIOD 

Post#47 » by ADROCK » Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:18 am

demar = overrated madly around here.

....bench.
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Re: Demar DeRozen shouldn't be starting PERIOD 

Post#48 » by Dr Positivity » Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:25 am

I like Demar in the starting lineup, mainly because if hes going to be a major part of our future core, its going to be as an elevated version of what hes doing now. 10-13ppg, 6 rebounds, spots up and hits 3s, and plays hard and active defense and general glue guy athleticism. Basically like what we thought Moon would, but at SG, way more motivated, and far less dumb and inconsistent.

We dont need Demar to be a 20ppg scorer, our offense is already league best and theres not enough touches. We need him to play the "defensive guy on an offensive team" role Doug Christie did on the early 00s Kings or Raja Bell on the Suns. Michael Cooper on the Showtime Lakers in the 80s is probably the ultimate example. His contribution to that team has been sorely overlooked with time
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Re: Demar DeRozen shouldn't be starting PERIOD 

Post#49 » by Schad » Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:55 pm

Dr Mufasa wrote:I like Demar in the starting lineup, mainly because if hes going to be a major part of our future core, its going to be as an elevated version of what hes doing now. 10-13ppg, 6 rebounds, spots up and hits 3s, and plays hard and active defense and general glue guy athleticism. Basically like what we thought Moon would, but at SG, way more motivated, and far less dumb and inconsistent.

We dont need Demar to be a 20ppg scorer, our offense is already league best and theres not enough touches. We need him to play the "defensive guy on an offensive team" role Doug Christie did on the early 00s Kings or Raja Bell on the Suns. Michael Cooper on the Showtime Lakers in the 80s is probably the ultimate example. His contribution to that team has been sorely overlooked with time


I think he can end up a fair bit better than that, but I love the fact that he's proven thus far that he's a good enough all-around player that he'll still be very useful, even if he doesn't end up as a 20 point/game guy. There's nothing wrong with getting that kind of guy in the late-lotto, and he still has plenty of time to bloom...I still think his ultimate upside is someone like Richard Jefferson, with perhaps a shade less offense.
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Re: Demar DeRozen shouldn't be starting PERIOD 

Post#50 » by D-Wins-RingsIMO » Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:31 pm

Hulk_Hogan wrote:Well ya know something OP!? You need to get rid of your narrow minded opinions brother! Derozan has to get minutes to develop, but clearly isn't ready to be an offensive force, why not put him with the starters where there wouldn't be as much pressure to make plays offensively? As long as he keeps training hard, taking his vitamins, and saying his prayers, he will be fine brother. But the Hulkster just has one question for the OP, watchya gonna do, watchya gonna do when Derozan breaks out and all the Hulkamaniacs run wild on you!?



Pretty much the best gimmick account we have on this site. Hulk speaks the truth, everything you said is bang on. I pretty much disagree with everything the OP said .... even Wright for D - his D has been shown to be much better at SF anyway.

If you start Marco that means even more shots for Wright off the bench :o since Demar will have a much lower useage than Marco
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Re: Demar DeRozen shouldn't be starting PERIOD 

Post#51 » by D-Wins-RingsIMO » Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:34 pm

oh I forgot - the guy isn't shooting 20 jumpers a game and taking heat checks with 20 seconds on the shot clock and does other things to help the team win ...... those guys apparently aren't valued that highly around here.

There's 1 ball and 5 players. The other 4 guys in the starting lineup are getting paid about $42 million this year and god knows what if Bosh resigns and Bargs extension kicks in (49 mill?) and all 4 of them are basically offense only players. Demar fits his role perfectly with them.
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Re: Demar DeRozen shouldn't be starting PERIOD 

Post#52 » by Undefeated » Sun Nov 15, 2009 4:28 pm

Jimmy76 wrote:His main problem is that he makes most of his points off the mid-range game which is the least efficient shot to take he needs to extend his range to 3 and try draw more contact when he drives (which he should do as often as possible pass up all but the spot up midrange shots) so he gets FT's


Um, I don’t think most of DeRozan’s points have come from the mid-range area. So far in the season, DeRozan has attempted 17 FGA (16 points) from mid-range and beyond and 25 FGA (25 points) in the paint. I don't see any problem here...

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Re: Demar DeRozen shouldn't be starting PERIOD 

Post#53 » by ATLTimekeeper » Sun Nov 15, 2009 5:01 pm

kirbs wrote:I thought he was going to be our first guard in years to get to the line a lot. Everyone kept saying that, and he looked like it in preseason. But he only has 8 FTAs in 9 games, and an FTA/FGA ratio of under 0.2. If he's not going to at least do that, we might as well be playing 4 on 5 when we're on offense.


You mean when there were replacement refs who called real fouls.

He's fine in the starting line-up, the only argument I can see with Wright is that he's more consistent/savvy defensively and he may not look for his shot as much with our starters.

Also, DD coming off the bench would give him more scoring chances and allow him to play with a pg that actually tries to push the tempo, which suits his strengths.

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