What did people expect when they put this group together?

Too Late Crew · Post #1 » by **Too Late Crew** » Fri Dec 4, 2009 8:48 pm

The Raptors are poor on defense. We all get that. The question if why did anyone expect different. Lets look at it statitcally (82games.com numbers)

Last year:
Defense Ranking by position in terms of opponent FG%
PG 20
SG 6
SF 24
PF 29
C 26

We need to look at who plays the majority of the minutes at these positions. Not what minor bench players may have been here or were brought in.

SO last year we were in the bottom 3rd of PG defense. Now who's our PG ..same guy Jose
Last year we were excellent vs SGs with Parker playing the position. This year he's replaced with a rookie and rookies never play good defense their first year. Its an obvious downgrade.
Last year SF bottom 3rd of the NBA (and that includes the games where we had Marion). What do the Raptors do? Bring in Hedo
PF Basically DFL We have the same PF we did last year
C Almost at the very bottom. Guess what we have the same center as last year.

We had 3 of the worst defensive starters in the NBA. We replaced our best defender with a Rookie. He had very poor defense at the SF and we went and replaced that positon with a guy who isn't a defender.

What exactly did people expect to happen? Why was there any expectaion that keep 3 poor defenders and replacing the other two postions with WORSE defenders would make the defense BETTER?

Jose_Matador · Post #2 » by **Jose_Matador** » Fri Dec 4, 2009 8:54 pm

I expected an average team, was that too much to ask ?

I knew that this team was incapable of winning 50 games, but I expected them to be average at the very least...

lucky777s · Post #3 » by **lucky777s** » Fri Dec 4, 2009 8:57 pm

I thought we could find 8 or 9 of them that might try to earn their outrageous paycheques and actually compete every night.

I actually thought our depth would make us compete harder than most teams on most nights and be a big advantage for us.

That is how stupid I am.

62245 · Post #4 » by **62245** » Fri Dec 4, 2009 8:58 pm

i KNEW the raptors wouldnt be able to play defense , cause 4 of the raptors 5 starters cant play defense to save their life.

Brinbe · Post #5 » by **Brinbe** » Fri Dec 4, 2009 8:59 pm

expected effort at the very least, didn't even get that.

A_wildstabatanything · Post #6 » by **A_wildstabatanything** » Fri Dec 4, 2009 9:00 pm

62245 wrote:i KNEW the raptors wouldnt be able to play defense , cause 4 of the raptors 5 starters cant play defense to save their life.

Wait.... there's one guy who can?

Four of the top 5 performances by an opposing big were Bosh's cover (Dirk, Randolph, Jamison, and Amare).

Upgrayedd · Post #7 » by **Upgrayedd** » Fri Dec 4, 2009 9:00 pm

I didn't really expect us to be world beaters like some people on this board, mostly because of the reasons you stated. They are certainly playing well below my original expectations though, I bought in to the BC Koolaid at the beginning of the season and predicted 43 wins.

62245 · Post #8 » by **62245** » Fri Dec 4, 2009 9:02 pm

A_wildstabatanything wrote:
62245 wrote:i KNEW the raptors wouldnt be able to play defense , cause 4 of the raptors 5 starters cant play defense to save their life.

Wait.... there's one guy who can?

Four of the top 5 performances by an opposing big were Bosh's cover (Dirk, Randolph, Jamison, and Amare).

jks you thought i was talking about bosh , ( bosh is easily 3rd worst ) , i was talking about derozan he can block a few shots every now and then

The_Hater · Post #9 » by **The_Hater** » Fri Dec 4, 2009 9:09 pm

A_wildstabatanything wrote:
62245 wrote:i KNEW the raptors wouldnt be able to play defense , cause 4 of the raptors 5 starters cant play defense to save their life.

Wait.... there's one guy who can?

Four of the top 5 performances by an opposing big were Bosh's cover (Dirk, Randolph, Jamison, and Amare).

Bosh doesn't always cover the opposing PF and Bargs doesn't always cover the opposing Center. Sorry.

roundhead0 · Post #10 » by **roundhead0** » Fri Dec 4, 2009 9:17 pm

That analysis leaves out the bench. This year's team--on paper--has a lot more depth and brought in some toughness, defense, and rebounding.

Problem: those qualities are concentrated in a few players. One hasn't played (Evans), one is not starter-level in the NBA (Johnson), and two are not the defensive players we were led to believe (Wright, and to a lesser extent Jack)

Right after the Raps signed Hedo I pointed out that the balance in this roster was way, way off. Lots of scoring and no D in the starters, lots of D and little offense in the reserves. Turns out that the reserves didn't bring enough defense either, and the whole thing is a mess.

J-Roc · Post #11 » by **J-Roc** » Fri Dec 4, 2009 9:19 pm

I expected one of the worst defensive teams in the history of the NBA. My hope was the offence would be the best ever, and perhaps other teams in the East might just suck.

Too Late Crew · Post #12 » by **Too Late Crew** » Fri Dec 4, 2009 9:26 pm

roundhead0 wrote:That analysis leaves out the bench. This year's team--on paper--has a lot more depth and brought in some toughness, defense, and rebounding.

Problem: those qualities are concentrated in a few players. One hasn't played (Evans), one is not starter-level in the NBA (Johnson), and two are not the defensive players we were led to believe (Wright, and to a lesser extent Jack)

Right after the Raps signed Hedo I pointed out that the balance in this roster was way, way off. Lots of scoring and no D in the starters, lots of D and little offense in the reserves. Turns out that the reserves didn't bring enough defense either, and the whole thing is a mess.

I left out the bench for a reason. The BC defdners contiually try to say he "adressed" waeknesses becuase he brought in defenders and rebounders.

Here are the %s of available minutes they play Bosh 74, Calderon 69 , Bargs 68 and Turk 67. These guys are playing close to 70% of the time.

Tougness defense and rebounding that sees the loor less than 15 mog is essentually irrelevant. You don't change things with 15 mpog bench players. You change things with guys who play 35 MPG.

Russ369 · Post #13 » by **Russ369** » Fri Dec 4, 2009 9:38 pm

Personally, I thought Jose would play MUCH better on D than he did last year, soley cuz I attributed his woe's to injury... I WAS WAY OFF!

I was expecting Bargnani to be HUNGRY and gain some killer instinct... He showed it on the 1st possesion of the season... Not so much on D...

We will never win anything with Jose and Bargs on this team... Only if Bargs moves to the 4 and we get a real centre...

Firesphere · Post #14 » by **Firesphere** » Fri Dec 4, 2009 9:46 pm

I expected the raptors to show effort, it kills me to be watching them battle to the half and then watch the lead slip in the 3rd, only to get decimated in the 4th... the last week has been close to unbearable as a die-hard fan. At first it was easy to say the schedule was bad, we don't have this guy or that guy, etc... but we are basically a joke in the nba at the moment.. I bet every single team marks us on the calendar and licks their lips... we are the team that coach's are getting fired for if we beat them! Disappointed would undersell how I feel right now.. I really don't care if we get beat by 82 point or 4 points... I care if we tried every single second we were on that court.. it is embarrassing to watch our guys go out there and have those deer in the headlight looks on their faces.. I know every team takes a beating every once in a while.. but I want to see heart. When Bosh got hit in Boston by Pierce, I wanted to see the entire team walk over and start pushing Celtics... I don't want anything to get out of hand or overly violent.. I just want people to know our team has heart and has each others backs... it's awesome to see Triano and his coaching staff bark at the other team, they did exactly what they should, but I didn't feel anything from our players. When we get dunked on, and it happens a lot.. I don't feel like we care... I feel like we expected it and we move on to our offensive turn.. I don't get that at all.. these guys should be yelling, screaming, waving their fists in the air, arguing with refs to the point of technical fouls..

I feel like the Raptors are currently showing up to do their job on the offensive end, but forget there are two parts to the game.. when they put this group together I didn't expect them to be the tip top defensive team in the league.. if you want that it takes years to establish the chemistry and attitude to get it done down the stretch.. but I wanted every single person on that team to step on that court and protect the basket like it was their life on the line... I wanted every single person to give all they had and be able to walk off the court after a win or loss knowing that they gave it every single ounce of sweat, blood and tears they had.