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John Hollinger chat (Raptors notes)

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Post#1 John Hollinger chat (Raptors notes)
Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:41 pm by Ogopogo

It ended up few minutes ago, there were some usual "Bosh is a goner?" and other Bosh related questions. Nothing new, except some interesting trade ideas. Here are the Raptors notes fron Hollinger's chat wrap:

Adam (Chicago, IL)
What are the chances that the bulls can dump hinrich in order to pick up lebron-bosh, dwade-bosh?

John Hollinger
(12:03 PM)
I think it's highly unlikely. The contract is just too much money, especially with Hinrich playing poorly.


Mark (Toronto)
Is Calderon for Martin realistic?

John Hollinger
(12:04 PM)
Be very surprised if Sac gave him away that easily ... I would think they'd only do that deal if they were getting DeRozan too.


Chris (Indianapolis, IN)
Simmons and Ford seem pretty high on a Bosh for Bynum deal ... what's your take?

John Hollinger
(12:06 PM)
I think it's not a bad endgame for the Raptors -- Bosh is the better player, obviously, but Bargnani-Bynum as a frontcourt is a lot more coherent than Bargnani-Bosh defensively. If they think Bosh is going, it's probably the best way to rebuild.


dred99 (Mia)
what are you hearing out of Miami other than a possible salary dump (D. Wright) before the deadline??Thanks

John Hollinger
(12:11 PM)
you keep hearing Udonis Haslem's name as a possibility, but it's not clear to me how Heat could upgrade their roster, get under the tax and preserve next year's cap room in one go. They'll certainly try to get Bosh if he comes available, but otherwise Wright may be the only move.


Rastamonsta (Portland, OR)
Being that your in Portland, can you comment on any moves the Blazers should make? What about Outlaw and Blake being moved for another big man to help this years run to the playoffs?

John Hollinger
(12:24 PM)
The Blazers are looking hard at bigs but it's a tough proposition -- ideally they want a guy with an ending contract since Przybilla and Oden will be back next year, and they don't want to give up much in the way of future assets to get such a player. The other question is whether the Blazers are looking at getting an impact player (i.e. Brendan Haywood) or just a stopgap (i.e. Rasho Nesterovic or Kwame Brown).


Darren (Ann Arbor)
With all this Bosh for Bynum talk, no one mentions a scenario where players and contracts match and make sense.

John Hollinger
(12:28 PM)
Bynum and Morrison for Bosh and O'Bryant. Several other combinations work as well. It's not any kind of impediment to a deal getting done.


Younger78 (Cali)
"Bynum and Morrison for Bosh and O'Bryant" doesn't seem to work. Bynum is a BYC player. Is there another combo?

John Hollinger
(12:34 PM)
This is what I get for no trying it on the trade machine first. Gotta put Sasha and Ammo in it and then take back players like O'Bryant and Wright in it using L.A.'s trade exceptions (Mihm, Radmanovic). As I said, those players are not obstacles to a deal getting done.


Ben (portland)
John, if the Lakers are not willing to offer Bynum, would a Blazer offer of LaMarcus/Rudy+expiring's be the 2nd best deal available to the Ratpors for Bosh?

John Hollinger
(12:47 PM)
I don't think Toronto would be as jazzed about that one since L.A. has a lot of the same weaknesses as Bargnani (softness, etc.) -- the lure of Bynum is that he's exactly what they lack at the moment. But you're right that Portland can throw a lot more sweeteners into the deal with its young guys and expiring contracts.


Al (Atlanta)
Over/Under 5.5: The number of below .500 teams that will make the playoffs in the East?

John Hollinger
(12:50 PM)
I'm thinking only one or two. Charlotte, Toronto and Miami should finish right around .500, so that leaves only the No. 8 spot as a guarantee for a losing record.


Neil (Toronto)
What do you think of Calderone to Lakers, Morrison to Houston and Battier to Toronto...win, win and win, no?

John Hollinger
(1:00 PM)
that's a pretty good one, provided Houston is willing to sacrifice Battier to have max cap room this summer. Calderon can't guard anybody but he'll help L.A.'s scuffling offense out big time, and of course Battier would give Toronto a D stopper.


Adam (Houston)
John, any word on whether Daryl Morey wants to make any moves? I keep on hearing Houston mentioned in rumors, but it kind of seems they just want to stay the course and let T-Mac's contract come off the books. Thanks!

John Hollinger
(1:03 PM)
Here's the calculus in Houston: They'll take on a player with a contract for next year if they value having that player more than having roughly $8 mil in cap this summer. For Bosh, obviously, that's a yes; for the likes of Caron Butler the answer is less clear.
Tanking is for pussies.
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Post#2 Re: John Hollinger chat (Raptors notes)
Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:44 pm by Rapsobsessed7

I wouldnt give up Derozan because of injury concerns with martin however if they want Amir + Belinelli they can have them.

also i dont see why we would help the Lakers (Calderon trade) i would offer them Amir + Wright for Battier only when Evans is back.

Jack/Calderon/Banks
Battier/Belinelli
Hedo/Derozan/Weems
Bosh/Evans
Bargnani/Rasho/O'Byrant
Biz Gilwalker wrote:There is no way a package of Salmons, Fields, Ross, Hansborough, #20, 2016 NYK Pick, 2017 pick can yield Toronto a top 10 pick, let alone the #3 pick. This is ridiculous
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Post#3 Re: John Hollinger chat (Raptors notes)
Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:47 pm by dillio

I don't want Martin, but I really like that Battier deal. Next step: trade Turk for a starting 2 and we're in business.
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Post#4 Re: John Hollinger chat (Raptors notes)
Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:47 pm by bena2005

if bosh goes to lakers, the league is officially *&$%#%*% rigged.. these talks are starting to piss me off.. the lakers think they can get whatever they want
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Post#5 Re: John Hollinger chat (Raptors notes)
Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:03 pm by slickvik

not necessarily....
bosh/gasol makes the lakers a lot worse defensively, and they loose some interior toughness.....
even though the raptors loose in talent
i def concur with john, bargs/bynum is a better fit defensively.....
id do that deal or the portland one as i don see how we win with bosh

though anyone here willing to trade demar plus fillers for butler?
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Post#6 Re: John Hollinger chat (Raptors notes)
Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:04 pm by ATLTimekeeper

That Battier deal is fantastic for us, questionable for Houston.

I'm astonished he mentioned Rasho (PER 19.7) and Kwame (PER 10.4) in the same breath.
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Post#7 Re: John Hollinger chat (Raptors notes)
Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:05 pm by danny-callahan

I'm amazed at how many people are okay with a Kevin Martin band aid deal. We have deeper problems.
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Post#8 Re: John Hollinger chat (Raptors notes)
Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:05 pm by youngLion

Thanks for the recap.
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Post#9 Re: John Hollinger chat (Raptors notes)
Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:09 pm by dagger

danny-callahan wrote:I'm amazed at how many people are okay with a Kevin Martin band aid deal. We have deeper problems.


Every team has weaknesses. It's a question of what assets do you want to invest in dealing with them. Kevin Martin a Band Aid deal? I'd rather have Lebron myself, or Kobe, or a dozen other wing players, but let's be honest. What are you going to give up that doesn't create an even larger hole somewhere else in the lineup. Martin might be gettable. And if he is gettable for a reasonable price, what would be the benefit for our lineup overall? That's the issue. Maybe there's a better player than Martin who we could get, but if the price is high, all we would be doing is changing the belt on the treadmill. We'd add a dimension in on area, and lose another.
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Post#10 Re: John Hollinger chat (Raptors notes)
Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:26 pm by Indeed

danny-callahan wrote:I'm amazed at how many people are okay with a Kevin Martin band aid deal. We have deeper problems.


His contract is great, and he is one of the top offensive player where he can draw fouls.

Even if we loose Bosh in the summer, we are still a playoffs team with Martin, and simply plug a PF/C with Bargnani.

Devin Harris is another option, and he would be better fit than Martin with Bosh and Bargnani, because of his defense and quickness.
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Post#11 Re: John Hollinger chat (Raptors notes)
Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:28 pm by Double Helix

danny-callahan wrote:I'm amazed at how many people are okay with a Kevin Martin band aid deal. We have deeper problems.


I understand the concerns but I'm not sure it's what I would consider the classic definition of a band aid deal. A band aid deal to me is when you mortgage the future for a quick fix to stop temporary bleeding. If Derozan was included with Calderon then yeah, I would be upset.

If, Derozan remained a Raptors though, I'm not sure why anybody would be too upset, save the injury concerns.

Kevin Martin isn't old. He's 25. As mentioned, yes, he has injury concerns so our doctors would have to be pretty convincing that his injury concerns heading forward were about the same as anybody's. If that was the conclusion, what's not to like about swapping Calderon for him?

Kevin's younger, plays a position of need, could help Derozan develop, could help us win more games now and possibly in the playoffs. That, in turn, could help Bosh to re-sign. He's not afraid to take the big shot. His percentages are good. He's efficient. He rebounds okay. He helps balance out our attack offensively and draws fouls. He's also a classy guy that the people of Toronto would come to really embrace.

I don't know... I realize the consensus that the last thing we need is more offence but a talent upgrade is still a talent upgrade and a lineup of this:

PG - Jack / Banks
SG - Martin / Derozan / Weems
SF - Turkoglu
PF - Bosh / Amir
C - Bargnani / Rasho

is still better use of cap space and roster space than this:

PG - Calderon / Jack / Banks
SG - Derozan / Wright / Weems / Belli
SF - Turkoglu
PF - Bosh / Amir
C - Bargnani / Rasho

I also think Kevin Martin's value over the next 2-3 years will stay fairly consistent whereas I might consider Calderon a declining asset.

I'm all for this trade if Sac town was.
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Post#12 Re: John Hollinger chat (Raptors notes)
Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:36 pm by theonlyeastcoastrapsfan

I'd do two deals, now, we have to give up something to get something, and this is to make the best of CB's contract situation: here goes

CB, Banks, POB, Wright
for Bynum, Sahsa, Farmar, Ammo (works in the checker)

and then

Kmart,
for Jose, and DeMar (works in chcker) (if we could get it done without DeMar, of course I'd prefer that)

Now, this way Kmart can still be a scorer for us, and it hurts to lose DeMar, but if we have Kmart, DeMar would be behind him anyway.

We'd be

Jack/Farmar
Kmart/Beli/Sasha/Wright
Turk/Weems/Ammo/Wright
Bargs/Amir?Evans
Bynum/Rasho
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Post#13 Re: John Hollinger chat (Raptors notes)
Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:38 pm by Raptolicism

I would really be shocked if we got KMart for Jose, without adding DeMar.

I personally, don't add DD to the trade, but I would be very willing to add Marco or Wright; maybe even Amir(b/c I hear Sac is looking for another big, and we may not be able to sign Amir anyways).

To me, a lineup of JJ, KMart, Hedo, Bosh, Bargs would be absolutely bonkers. Our depth would be shorter, but we would still have Banks(blerrrgh), DD, Sonny, and Reggie/Rasho off the bench. I think our insanely potent starting unit would offset the decrease in depth.

Git 'er d... It's not gonna happen.
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Post#14 Re: John Hollinger chat (Raptors notes)
Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:40 pm by Southward1

Raptolicism wrote:I would really be shocked if we got KMart for Jose, without adding DeMar.

I personally, don't add DD to the trade, but I would be very willing to add Marco or Wright; maybe even Amir(b/c I hear Sac is looking for another big, and we may not be able to sign Amir anyways).

To me, a lineup of JJ, KMart, Hedo, Bosh, Bargs would be absolutely bonkers. Our depth would be shorter, but we would still have Banks(blerrrgh), DD, Sonny, and Reggie/Rasho off the bench. I think our insanely potent starting unit would offset the decrease in depth.

Git 'er d... It's not gonna happen.


Agreed

Offer a package of Jose, marco and/or Amir and see what kind of wing player you can get
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Post#15 Re: John Hollinger chat (Raptors notes)
Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:46 pm by danny-callahan

See, I really don't want to give up on DeMar. Especially for a guy who doesn't give you any D and hasn't played more than half of a season for some time. The fact of the matter is that he is extremely fragile. Now, if you can find out a way to work out something like Jose + Wright for Martin then I'd think about pulling the trigger.
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Post#16 Re: John Hollinger chat (Raptors notes)
Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:49 pm by tecumseh18

^ Under your LA trade, we lose Wright, so no Wright on the depth chart. But personally, I'd rather not send out Bosh AND any expiring contracts at the same time. Would the LA deal work without them?

Yeah, it does hurt to lose DeMar, but unless he can get strong enough to play the 3 it wouldn't make sense to have KevinM AND Beli. I know Jose is now a bad contract, but if we have to give up DeMar we should also get a draft pick from Sac. Even a second rounder.

If the LA trade went through, wouldn't it be cool if Morrison could learn to play at least as well as Redick?

Man, I love any trade idea which ends up with us getting Battier. I don't know if he'd like it. I've heard a rumour he has political ambitions (the guy is a freakin genius), so being outside of the US may not sit well with him.
Indeed wrote:The Bargnani trade was horrible, it was Camby and Novak, where we can't even use them.

... I think Ujiri is hindered by the previous mess, but neither he did anything good at the moment.
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Post#17 Re: John Hollinger chat (Raptors notes)
Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:52 pm by Gold Chain

I amazed at people even sniffing at giving up Demar in a trade.

The key is stud and will be dynamite in 2 years.

His mid-range is betetr than I thought.

Screw Martin. Keep Derozan here at all cost.
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Post#18 Re: John Hollinger chat (Raptors notes)
Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:56 pm by Ogopogo

If we could get Martin without giving up DeMar, and add Belinelli to the deal, I say why not? With the current roster the Raps got no chance to make it in the second round. Maybe adding another deadly weapon on offense is enough to do the magic in the playoffs...

But the main concern is Colangelo. IMO he's not thinking on a significant trade, what includes Calderon. Five weeks and everything will be clear. Till then? :pray:
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Post#19 Re: John Hollinger chat (Raptors notes)
Thu Jan 14, 2010 3:03 pm by Indiana Jones

bynum would be a nice center for us, but really, if we lose bosh, our offense probably goes the way of the dodo...we'll average five or six free throws a game....
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Post#20 Re: John Hollinger chat (Raptors notes)
Thu Jan 14, 2010 3:04 pm by Indiana Jones

Ogopogo wrote:If we could get Martin without giving up DeMar, and add Belinelli to the deal, I say why not? With the current roster the Raps got no chance to make it in the second round. Maybe adding another deadly weapon on offense is enough to do the magic in the playoffs...

But the main concern is Colangelo. IMO he's not thinking on a significant trade, what includes Calderon. Five weeks and everything will be clear. Till then? :pray:


any trade that sees jose, beli or turk on the way out is a plus for us...especially if a player like martin is on the way back...
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