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How effective are our Bosh+big man pairings?

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How effective are our Bosh+big man pairings? 

Post#1 » by Ripp » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:39 pm

I went through and calculated the offensive/defensive ratings for three different bigs (Amir, Bargnani, and Rasho), when paired with Bosh.


Basically this amounts to going to http://www.basketballvalue.com, coping and pasting the data into Excel, and then doing a bit of calculation.

Anyway, here are the results:

Code: Select all

Pairings    ORtg    DRtg   Minutes
Bosh/Amir   112.02  104.61 1437.47
Bosh/Bargs  112.23  115.36 434.46
Bosh/Rasho  110.13  121.4  356.07


And here is a link to the spreadsheet:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= ... Qa2c&hl=en

I'm a bit surprised that there is no difference offensively between pairing Bosh with a hustle big like Amir and a stretch big like Bargnani. And of course, the difference defensively is simply astounding.
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Re: How effective are our Bosh+big man pairings? 

Post#2 » by J-Roc » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:41 pm

Why so few minutes for Bosh/Bargs?
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Re: How effective are our Bosh+big man pairings? 

Post#3 » by racingdynamics » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:43 pm

Im pretty sure those stats are incorrect.
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Re: How effective are our Bosh+big man pairings? 

Post#4 » by ATLTimekeeper » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:43 pm

Do you have anything for Bargnani-Amir? Out of curiosity for next year.
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Re: How effective are our Bosh+big man pairings? 

Post#5 » by raps4life~ » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:45 pm

J-Roc wrote:Why so few minutes for Bosh/Bargs?


Looking at his spreadsheet his Amir/ Bargs minutes are flipped.
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Re: How effective are our Bosh+big man pairings? 

Post#6 » by J-Roc » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:48 pm

raps4life~ wrote:
J-Roc wrote:Why so few minutes for Bosh/Bargs?


Looking at his spreadsheet his Amir/ Bargs minutes are flipped.


That would be funny if the conclusion is flipped, too.
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Re: How effective are our Bosh+big man pairings? 

Post#7 » by isyed » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:53 pm

J-Roc wrote:
raps4life~ wrote:
J-Roc wrote:Why so few minutes for Bosh/Bargs?


Looking at his spreadsheet his Amir/ Bargs minutes are flipped.


That would be funny if the conclusion is flipped, too.



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Re: How effective are our Bosh+big man pairings? 

Post#8 » by Ripp » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:55 pm

Indeed, the minutes for Amir/Bosh, Bosh/Bargs were flipped, thanks for pointing that out. But you can play around with the spreadsheet yourself to see that I didn't do anything funky.

Bargnani pairings upcoming..
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Re: How effective are our Bosh+big man pairings? 

Post#9 » by Courtside » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:55 pm

I've asked in the other thread - but can you please do the same thing to show how Bargs+Amir works, or now that you've also brought Rasho into the mix include Bargs+Rasho?
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Re: How effective are our Bosh+big man pairings? 

Post#10 » by J-Roc » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:58 pm

isyed wrote:

Alas it is not my hating friend...


No hate. Just anxiously awaiting the correct stats.
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Re: How effective are our Bosh+big man pairings? 

Post#11 » by NBJ13 » Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:00 pm

If i were bosh I'd want to play with amir. I used to love the guys that would rebound my misses for easy put backs or tap ins, it made me feel like i made a good play even though i missed lol

Plus amir is great to have as a 2nd line of defense.
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Re: How effective are our Bosh+big man pairings? 

Post#12 » by Undefeated » Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:00 pm

I just want to point out that, Bargnani has a higher WS than Amir. This comes to the point that, as great as Amir helps the Raptors on the defensive end compare to Bargnani, it doesn't impact wins as much as Bargnani.
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Re: How effective are our Bosh+big man pairings? 

Post#13 » by raps4life~ » Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:01 pm

Undefeated wrote:I just want to point out that, Bargnani has a higher WS than Amir. This comes to the point that, as great as Amir helps the Raptors on the defensive end compare to Bargnani, it doesn't impact wins as much as Bargnani.


I don't know how win shares work, but couldn't that be because Bargs plays way more than Amir?
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Re: How effective are our Bosh+big man pairings? 

Post#14 » by Ripp » Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:04 pm

So here is Bargnani+{Amir, Bosh, Rasho}

Code: Select all

Pairings    ORtg    DRtg   Minutes
Bargs/Amir  111.18  112.12 500.88
Bargs/Bosh  112.23  115.36 1437.47
Bargs/Rasho  112.89  128.41  130.4


Link to spreadsheet here:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= ... CQWc&hl=en
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Re: How effective are our Bosh+big man pairings? 

Post#15 » by raps4life~ » Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:06 pm

Rasho obviously did something to 'DRtg's' family.
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Re: How effective are our Bosh+big man pairings? 

Post#16 » by Ripp » Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:08 pm

So yeah, I think for this year you need to get as much Bosh+Amir as possible. Going forward, break up the Bosh+Bargs pairing. If you keep Bosh, grab an Amir-like C. If you keep Bargnani, grab an Amir-like PF or C.

He really is the perfect compliment for both of our bigs..
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Re: How effective are our Bosh+big man pairings? 

Post#17 » by Ripp » Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:56 pm

Anybody want to do last year? I don't remember the Bosh+Bargnani pairing being quite this horrific defensively last year...or was it?
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Re: How effective are our Bosh+big man pairings? 

Post#18 » by Courtside » Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:04 pm

It wasn't - but we also had better D at the perimiter so the help or recovery required by either Bosh or Bargs was able to get there sooner.

We had our best run this season when it seems the strategy was to defend better outside and lets the big men stay home a little more. Opponent percentages went down and we rebounded better.
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Re: How effective are our Bosh+big man pairings? 

Post#19 » by isyed » Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:06 pm

Ripp wrote:I went through and calculated the offensive/defensive ratings for three different bigs (Amir, Bargnani, and Rasho), when paired with Bosh.


Basically this amounts to going to http://www.basketballvalue.com, coping and pasting the data into Excel, and then doing a bit of calculation.

Anyway, here are the results:

Code: Select all

Pairings    ORtg    DRtg   Minutes
Bosh/Amir   112.02  104.61 1437.47
Bosh/Bargs  112.23  115.36 434.46
Bosh/Rasho  110.13  121.4  356.07


And here is a link to the spreadsheet:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= ... Qa2c&hl=en

I'm a bit surprised that there is no difference offensively between pairing Bosh with a hustle big like Amir and a stretch big like Bargnani. And of course, the difference defensively is simply astounding.


Awesome work. Moving Bargs off the bench does soo much more good than cad for us. We get a scorer off the bench. If we need to spread the defence we bring him on. We have a capable big who might win us a game if Bosh has a down game. Amir gives us the straight good to start with, defence, rebounding, steals, blocks, no hogging, smooth offence and second chance points.

Bargs with someone like Weems who likes to rebound would be awesome off the bench. Bargs also gets a chance to abuse the opponents bench and more shots along with more freedom.
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Re: How effective are our Bosh+big man pairings? 

Post#20 » by Reignman » Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:11 pm

So everything from common sense, casual observation and stats all point to the fact that Amir should start and Bargs should come off the bench yet the only move we make is Jose for Jack?

Gotcha!

Another thing this stat shows is that Bargs spreading the floor for Bosh is heavily overrated and quite frankly not even a point worth discussing.

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