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Enes coming out of early season slump

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Post#1 Enes coming out of early season slump
Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:12 pm by erudite23

So I've been holding off on this, and I would hate to jinx it, but I think it warrants mentioning at this point. We all know how badly Enes played early in the year. We've all had to wade through posts from the trolls taunting us over it, and we've all been at least a little concerned at the unexpected dip in production. But I think its to the point where its safe to say that he's back on track. Looking at the last 3 weeks (9 games), we're seeing a distinct difference from the first month (13 games). Here are the numbers laid out per 36 minutes of play:
Code: Select all
Category                    First 13                    Last 9
FG                           5.1                          8.3
FGA                          9.6                         15.4
FG%                        53.1%                         53.7%
FT                           0.8                          3.2
FTA                          2.0                          4.6
FT%                          40%                          70%
ORB                          2.6                          6.0
DRB                          5.9                          4.6
TRB                          8.5                         10.5
AST                          1.0                          0.7
BLK                          1.4                          1.1
TOV                          4.1                          2.3
PTS                         11.0                         19.7



The biggest thing here is obviously the scoring. He's scoring with much much greater frequency, his FTs are starting to fall and he's not losing any of his FG efficiency. The TO numbers that were so startling early on are coming down as well. Also, he's gone to the offensive boards like he was last season and is dominating that area of the game like he used to--though we're still not seeing his defensive rebounding at the level we did last year.

Overall, we're seeing what we need to see from him. No one will say he was anything less than terrible to begin the year, but he seems to have recovered and is showing the gains we saw in pre season. All the disclaimers apply, but the numbers tell the story.
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Post#2 Re: Enes coming out of early season slump
Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:18 pm by Neon Black

Nope, Enes sucks, I don't care what he does. He fails a very scientific and conclusive test...my personal "eye test". He's slow and fat and plays below the rim so he can never, ever be worth anything. He's had an entire lockout-shortened season plus a year on the bench in college to develop his game. If he's not Kevin Love or Dwight Howard by now, he never will be. Dude's getting really old and time's just running out for him.
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Post#3 Re: Enes coming out of early season slump
Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:24 pm by StocktonShorts

Neon Black wrote:Nope, Enes sucks, I don't care what he does. He fails a very scientific and conclusive test...my personal "eye test". He's slow and fat and plays below the rim so he can never, ever be worth anything. He's had an entire lockout-shortened season plus a year on the bench in college to develop his game. If he's not Kevin Love or Dwight Howard by now, he never will be. Dude's getting really old and time's just running out for him.


Why Utah coach no play Kanter?! Time for team to trade him to a better city than Utah!
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Post#4 Re: Enes coming out of early season slump
Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:42 pm by Ming Kong!

Kanter is going to be just fine. He was in a tough situation, with one of the best centers in the league playing ahead of him, and he's been healthy. Kanter showed me in the summer that he was a changed man, ofcourse he didn't have the same impact at the start of the season, due to reduced minutes, and obviously he wasn't playing against 2nd and 3rd string centers like in the preseason. Anyways, he's doing great now and has shown he can do his moves against D.Howard, the Spurs, and other great defenses. This kid is going to be scary, and we have him locked down for another 60 games this year, 2 more after, then an extension or match whatever he gets. Oh yeah. :-)
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Post#5 Re: Enes coming out of early season slump
Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:14 pm by reapaman

Well of course he was gonna improve and not slump forever which is why it was way too early for a "bust" thread. On the other hand its still too earlier for this ala the "hayward out of his slump" thread last season only to be followed by another slump (towards the end of the season he broke the slump officially for that season anyway and excluding playoffs).

So lets wait til at least allstar break before these thread (no matter which way you lean) start popping up.
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Post#6 Re: Enes coming out of early season slump
Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:24 am by Luigi

How many minutes was he getting in the first set? In the second?

What's the record of the teams in the first set? In the second?

Those are probably the two most important factors to compare the two data sets provided in the OP. I hope they support the good news.
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Post#7 Re: Enes coming out of early season slump
Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:48 pm by falcon107

Ming Kong! wrote:Kanter is going to be just fine. He was in a tough situation, with one of the best centers in the league playing ahead of him,


Please tell me who is one of the best centers in the league? Jefferson?

I don't think so. :o
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Post#8 Re: Enes coming out of early season slump
Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:16 pm by babyjax13

falcon107 wrote:
Ming Kong! wrote:Kanter is going to be just fine. He was in a tough situation, with one of the best centers in the league playing ahead of him,


Please tell me who is one of the best centers in the league? Jefferson?

I don't think so. :o


How many centers are better? I can think of (IMHO):

Dwight
Lopez
Noah
Chandler
Cousins
Monroe

Outside of that, there aren't many and some of those are arguable. He's certainly top ten at worst. Although center is pretty weak as well...but I think he has played great this year, just needs to up that FG%.
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Post#9 Re: Enes coming out of early season slump
Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:24 pm by falcon107

Jefferson is just a good center.

If we are talking about best centers, he is no way in my list.

Best centers make a difference for their team, I don't think that Jefferson makes that difference for Utah.

babyjax13 wrote:Outside of that, there aren't many and some of those are arguable. He's certainly top ten at worst. Although center is pretty weak as well...but I think he has played great this year, just needs to up that FG%.


Looking Utah's current position, I cannot understand how you think he has played great this year. Even this loss against Suns was because of Jefferson and his FG%

At the same time Jefferson is now a problem for Utah, for the minutes given to him can be better used for Favors and Kanter's development.
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Post#10 Re: Enes coming out of early season slump
Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:34 am by beefers1

falcon107 wrote:
Ming Kong! wrote:Kanter is going to be just fine. He was in a tough situation, with one of the best centers in the league playing ahead of him,


Please tell me who is one of the best centers in the league? Jefferson?

I don't think so. :o


How is he not? IMO, the only ones you can make a case for as being better are Howard, Bynum (when healthy), Horford (though he's more of a PF), Marc Gasol, Hibbert and Bogut (when healthy). He's a better post scorer than all of them (maybe except Gasol), and is working on his defense and passing.
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Post#11 Re: Enes coming out of early season slump
Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:31 am by StocktonShorts

beefers1 wrote:
falcon107 wrote:
Ming Kong! wrote:Kanter is going to be just fine. He was in a tough situation, with one of the best centers in the league playing ahead of him,


Please tell me who is one of the best centers in the league? Jefferson?

I don't think so. :o


How is he not? IMO, the only ones you can make a case for as being better are Howard, Bynum (when healthy), Horford (though he's more of a PF), Marc Gasol, Hibbert and Bogut (when healthy). He's a better post scorer than all of them (maybe except Gasol), and is working on his defense and passing.


I'd also pick Tyson Chandler and Joakim Noah ahead of Al.
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Post#12 Re: Enes coming out of early season slump
Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:52 am by erudite23

reapaman wrote:Well of course he was gonna improve and not slump forever which is why it was way too early for a "bust" thread. On the other hand its still too earlier for this ala the "hayward out of his slump" thread last season only to be followed by another slump (towards the end of the season he broke the slump officially for that season anyway and excluding playoffs).

So lets wait til at least allstar break before these thread (no matter which way you lean) start popping up.



According to dictionary.com :


slump [sluhmp]:
noun. a period during which a person performs slowly, inefficiently, or ineffectively, especially a period during which an athlete or team fails to play or score as well as usual.



Your brain fascinates me. So, let's get this straight, then. A person can't get out of one slump, and then go into another one? You can only have one slump per season? Any time a person performs poorly, he is OF COURSE going to break out of the poor play and start playing better?

....wha???

Enes is out of the slump he was in to start the season. The numbers prove it. Will he slump again this season? There's a good chance. But he broke out of this one.
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Post#13 Re: Enes coming out of early season slump
Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:30 am by reapaman

erudite23 wrote:Enes is out of the slump he was in to start the season. The numbers prove it. Will he slump again this season? There's a good chance. But he broke out of this one.

Thats exactly what I'm implying. He is out the slump and could or couldnt get back in another this season. But you should know by now (as with hayward last year) that when people saw the thread title they didn't see "Enes coming out of early season slump", they saw "Enes is proving the haters wrong". Indicated by the sarcastic comments (one of which was clearly directed towards me even tho I said he would not slump forever) and the open season on Big Al in which you didn't even mention his name even a spin off thread made about Big Al because of this thread.

I know what you were trying to say and I agree but I already knew where this thread was headed when you made it and its too early for it. I just rather wait until the off-season or at least post all-star breadk to go in on Kanter or apologize instead of a thread for the legnth of 10 games with "he sucks" then next ten games "he's back on track" then next 10 games " he sucks again" and so forth. That was annoying with Hayward.
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Post#14 Re: Enes coming out of early season slump
Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:48 am by Luigi

Still waiting on the minutes and the opponent records during those periods.
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Post#15 Re: Enes coming out of early season slump
Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:02 am by erudite23

I'm not sure what you're talking about with Hayward, maybe you could actually provide some factual evidence instead of your usual anecdotal or vague remembrances.

Hayward had a gradual improvement as the season wore on. He started terrible and slowly built towards a strong finish. Just like he did the year before.


Kanter is now in the midst of a stretch of games that shockingly dissimilar from his first 13 games. There is a clear shifting point, and a plain-as-day, passes-the-eye test distinction now from before. We're not talking about the usual up and down, 2 steps forward one step back type of stuff. Hayward never had a stretch where he played this good at any point early on last year. He was terrible with a sprinkling of good games here or there. What we are talking about here is 1/8th of the season sucking followed by another 1/8th of the season excelling. Right next to each other. Try not to cloud the picture with your nonsense.
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Post#16 Re: Enes coming out of early season slump
Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:48 pm by reapaman

Hayward didn't gradually improve in the sense that you are talking about, he had a couple dips. I remember he had a small string off bad games to start the season then he went off versus GS then the next week he goes off against denver after that the Hayward fans go crazy with the "I told you so". Soon after he goes back to slumping until like late january I think where we played the kings in which was the start of a good string of games for him and the hayward fans go crazy again. Then after a couple of weeks of that he goes back into another slump for a few weeks and then after that he finally breaks out of his slump and did well the rest of the way. Well he did well until the playoffs. I sure you can look at his stats are somthing to confirm if you want but I didn't bother because I remember these people flip flopping as usual. I even remember you saying you were wrong about hayward in a thread right before he went into another slump.

BTW, I'm still waiting on that list from someone about the "many" things I was wrong about because I can only count 1 mabey 2 depends on how you look at it. Yet I have a whole landry list of things that the majority of people on this board have been wrong about (which I listed but the thread got locked).
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Post#17 Re: Enes coming out of early season slump
Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:03 pm by erudite23

reapaman wrote:Hayward didn't gradually improve in the sense that you are talking about, he had a couple dips. I remember he had a small string off bad games to start the season then he went off versus GS then the next week he goes off against denver after that the Hayward fans go crazy with the "I told you so". Soon after he goes back to slumping until like late january I think where we played the kings in which was the start of a good string of games for him and the hayward fans go crazy again. Then after a couple of weeks of that he goes back into another slump for a few weeks and then after that he finally breaks out of his slump and did well the rest of the way. Well he did well until the playoffs. I sure you can look at his stats are somthing to confirm if you want but I didn't bother because I remember these people flip flopping as usual. I even remember you saying you were wrong about hayward in a thread right before he went into another slump.


I've already looked at the numbers. You, as always, are relying on vaguely remembered bits of selective information. Did he have a good game here or there? I'm sure he did. He might have even strung two or three together. But look at his splits for last year, and you can see the marked improvement month-to-month. His numbers got better across the board every month as the season wore on, culminating in an April which saw him average 16.1/3.7/3.5 on 51% from the field, 88% from the line and 49% from 3. Each month was better than the one before it. That's gradual, linear and sustained improvement. I can't speak to these imagine slumps you mention. He was terrible in January. Poor-to-mediocre in February. Quite good in March and excellent in April. Within that growth curve, were there mini-slumps or mini explosions? Sure. Did a poster or two on this board over react to a great game along the way? Probably.

But there is no stretch of 13 terrible games, followed by a really strong stretch of approximately the same length, followed again by another terrible stretch, which is what you're suggesting will happen to Enes....based upon the fact that it happened to Gordon. Which, again, is not true. You make these vague and ambiguous references in your brain and then pat yourself on the back for being so insightful, when the truth is that you remember only that which proves your view of the world to be correct.

BTW, I'm still waiting on that list from someone about the "many" things I was wrong about because I can only count 1 mabey 2 depends on how you look at it. Yet I have a whole landry list of things that the majority of people on this board have been wrong about (which I listed but the thread got locked).


You're assuming that people care. There is a list at the bottom of every one of my posts showing exactly how wrong you have been relative to your biggest hobby horse: Enes Kanter. You act like it never happened or try to explain it away, but the best indictment of your self proclaimed expertise is the hard numbers you predicted for his rookie season, which he doubled. That's just one example, but its a microcosm of what's wrong with your thinking.
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Post#18 Re: Enes coming out of early season slump
Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:05 pm by reapaman

I never said anything about his performance for the month, I said during certain strecthes. You see he had some stretches where mainly his fg% along with some of his other numbers were low (or higher if its fouls and turnovers) such as 2/13 -3/7 which overall was a huge step down from what he did from 1/28 - 2/12. Yes he made up for his bad performances in terms of the overall production for the month with good performances on the other days but what I said still stands. I'm just saying it was hayward crazy during the 1/28 - 2/12 time but during the 2/13 - 3/7 it was pure silence. Also the other strecth I was talking about which was 1/7 at golden state is when guys went crazy and although he had a couple bad performances in between I remember a couple "haywards so great" threads being made after the NJ and mainly the Denver game on 1/15. There is that specific enough for you?

erudite23 wrote:You're assuming that people care. There is a list at the bottom of every one of my posts showing exactly how wrong you have been relative to your biggest hobby horse: Enes Kanter. You act like it never happened or try to explain it away, but the best indictment of your self proclaimed expertise is the hard numbers you predicted for his rookie season, which he doubled. That's just one example, but its a microcosm of what's wrong with your thinking.


And not to go on a bragging spree but If you take away the Kanter stat prediction ( which I have already said many times I was wrong about period so I don't know what your talking about, what am I suppose to have a parade about it or somthing?) and not my overall opinion about Kanter (because I feel as strongly as ever about that) I was almost dead on about other stuff people initally critized me about (not you specifically):

1) Kanter would get his shot block alot which many of you said he wouldn't but then later said you didn't care that he did (a matter of fact he is once again near the top in the league in terms percentage of his shots are blocked)
2) Right about almost everything dealing with our line up which invovled alot of things such as burks getting virtually pushed out for minutes and everything deal with foye, favors mpg not increasing that much, ect.....
3) That KOC won't trade Al or Jefferson because he's content with being medicore (even tho you assured we would trade at least one of them by now)
4) Right that many of you will hate the direction of our team starting the season despite saying I was wrong to complain about it
5) That you guys overrated how good we will be and we are right were I said we would be
6) Right about favors shooting percentages dropping and that he's basically chandler 2.0 (matter of fact we made a bet about that and I'm winning)
7) Right about hayward period (including his FG% will drop this season which I'm again winning)
8) Right that Kanter wasn't getting training on post moves from kiki because that made no sense
9) If we go back further I was actually probley the first to say I didn't like us getting many of the guys you people hate on such as Big Al or hiring Corbin
10) That burks would not be out of utah before his rookie contract is up and we already heard trade rumors about him so ....

I can go on and on yet all you have is one instance I was wrong in a situation that many of the people that thought he would do well still got the numbers wrong also. Plus 2.3 pts and 1.5 rbs in 5.5 mins is not bad. You can see I clearly thought with Al, Millsap, Okur and Favors, where is he gonna find the minutes? Who knew Lopez would get hurt and the Nets had the exception and desire to get okur plus Favors would only get 22 mpg. That especially makes no since when I said had the Cavs drafted him he would get high minutes but not on this team due to the log jam. Never said he wouldn't get minutes because he sucked so bad plus not like he deserved the minutes anyway. I mean if it was because he sucked so bad I would go like .9 pts and .5 rbs in 5.5 mins or somthing but I didn't. You need more than one instance to say my line of thinking is wrong because everyone is off sometimes yet you have nothing else and as I said I have a landry list.
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