Game 3: San Antonio Spurs 2 @ Utah Jazz 0

[HolyToledo]

Would anyone like to make the argument that Millsap can start on a championship team still?

Didn't think so.

yes he can if he is your 4th or 5th best player in starting lineup. The problem is he is the Jazz #1 or #2 depending on what u consider Big AL. How to you bag on him anyway? Is it just me isnt Big Al the biggest loss cause out there.

[jazzgasm]

Would anyone like to make the argument that Millsap can start on a championship team still?

Didn't think so.

yes he can if he is your 4th or 5th best player in starting lineup. The problem is he is the Jazz #1 or #2 depending on what u consider Big AL. How to you bag on him anyway? Is it just me isnt Big Al the biggest loss cause out there.

Yup he sure is then Harris lol

[UTJazzFan_Echo1]

Would anyone like to make the argument that Millsap can start on a championship team still?

Didn't think so.

yes he can if he is your 4th or 5th best player in starting lineup. The problem is he is the Jazz #1 or #2 depending on what u consider Big AL. How to you bag on him anyway? Is it just me isnt Big Al the biggest loss cause out there.

Give me a break.

I love Millsap but if you're getting outplayed by BORIS FREAKING DIAW in a playoff series you're not going to be the starting power forward on a championship team... regardless of what option you are.

[Jazzfan12]

Would anyone like to make the argument that Millsap can start on a championship team still?

Didn't think so.

yes he can if he is your 4th or 5th best player in starting lineup. The problem is he is the Jazz #1 or #2 depending on what u consider Big AL. How to you bag on him anyway? Is it just me isnt Big Al the biggest loss cause out there.

Give me a break.

I love Millsap but if you're getting outplayed by BORIS FREAKING DIAW in a playoff series you're not going to be the starting power forward on a championship team... regardless of what option you are.

The starting Power Forwards on the title contenders this year are Udonis Haslem, Boris Diaw, and Serge Ibaka and Millsap is much better than all of those players. He's just really bad against the Spurs.

[seejaydeja]

Jefferson: "I'm happy to be in the playoffs. I'm happy to go through what I'm going through right now, cause that's what it's all about ... but I just think we playing against a team that's at it's peak. I don't see nobody beating 'em. We ain't gave up. We going to go and try to get us a win tomorrow. But it's a great team. I just take my hat off to 'em. Mad respect."

From @tribjazz

Sorry Al but that sounds exactly like you giving up...

[countrybama24]

Would anyone like to make the argument that Millsap can start on a championship team still?

Didn't think so.

Millsap > Bosh. He's clearly better than boozer (remember the series vs. the lakers these last few years) who is starting for a contender.

This is only one series. I think Paul could start for a contender much more easily than Jefferson, who needs a bunch of touches to be effective and isn't a good defender. Paul would fit on the heat for example much more easily.

[UTJazzFan_Echo1]

The starting Power Forwards on the title contenders this year are Udonis Haslem, Boris Diaw, and Serge Ibaka and Millsap is much better than all of those players. He's just really bad against the Spurs.

First of all, Ibaka is better than Millsap.

Second, Borris Diaw has outplayed Millsap in this series so...

Thirdly, Miami starts Chris Bosh at their power forward spot.

And finally, if you guys think Millsap is "clearly better" than Bosh and Boozer, you might wanna check salaries and all-star appearances first.

BTW, it's a myth that the Jazz would've been better off starting Millsap instead of Boozer because of Millsap's defense. Statistically, Millsap is not that much better of a defender than Boozer (in fact, he might be worse).

[countrybama24]

The starting Power Forwards on the title contenders this year are Udonis Haslem, Boris Diaw, and Serge Ibaka and Millsap is much better than all of those players. He's just really bad against the Spurs.
BTW, it's a myth that the Jazz would've been better off starting Millsap instead of Boozer because of Millsap's defense. Statistically, Millsap is not that much better of a defender than Boozer (in fact, he might be worse).

Second, Borris Diaw has outplayed Millsap in this series so...

Thirdly, Miami starts Chris Bosh at their power forward spot.

And finally, if you guys think Millsap is "clearly better" than Bosh and Boozer, you might wanna check salaries and all-star appearances first.

Bosh makes more than lebron. The salary arg is obviously bunk. He is better than boozer. See lakers series. Mo williams has more all start appearances than favors, hayward, etc. Also a terrible metric.

Boris Diaw's line last night:

FG: 0-3
Rb: 4
1 block, 1 dime.

He also plays awful help defense. Paul plays good help defense, and had 5 blocks. Which game are you watching?

Favors also shot awfully, why aren't you blaming him? Oh right, he plays great defense. So does paul. Al doesn't, and lets their guards score at will because he is incapable of rotating correctly. I'd love to see the metrics you're talking about that rate boozer so well, because the eye test tells me he might be one of the worst defenders in the league.

[russnumber3]

Would anyone like to make the argument that Millsap can start on a championship team still?

Didn't think so.

Millsap > Bosh. He's clearly better than boozer (remember the series vs. the lakers these last few years) who is starting for a contender.

This is only one series. I think Paul could start for a contender much more easily than Jefferson, who needs a bunch of touches to be effective and isn't a good defender. Paul would fit on the heat for example much more easily.

You are officially out of touch my friend. Bosh >>>>Millsap, and Millsap might be better than Boozer, but he's not clearly better.

[countrybama24]

Bosh is an average starting 4. Nothing special. Don't buy the pre-Miami hype. Probably slightly below average by next year.

[HolyToledo]

Jefferson: "I'm happy to be in the playoffs. I'm happy to go through what I'm going through right now, cause that's what it's all about ... but I just think we playing against a team that's at it's peak. I don't see nobody beating 'em. We ain't gave up. We going to go and try to get us a win tomorrow. But it's a great team. I just take my hat off to 'em. Mad respect."

From @tribjazz

Sorry Al but that sounds exactly like you giving up...

Yeah, I didnt like this statement from Big Al. Not the right attitude to have at this point. Millsap said he is angry with his own play and leadership and wants that to change in game 4. Big Al seems ok with his play and not focused on improving his defensive play.

Corbin hinted Favors maybe finanally starting Monday and I think he will be benching Howard or maybe even Big Al. If Big Al goes to the bench with Howard and Carrol and Favors start and they play starter minutes then Jazz win.

[UTJazzFan_Echo1]

Bosh makes more than lebron. The salary arg is obviously bunk. He is better than boozer. See lakers series. Mo williams has more all start appearances than favors, hayward, etc. Also a terrible metric.

Boris Diaw's line last night:

FG: 0-3
Rb: 4
1 block, 1 dime.

He also plays awful help defense. Paul plays good help defense, and had 5 blocks. Which game are you watching?

Favors also shot awfully, why aren't you blaming him? Oh right, he plays great defense. So does paul. Al doesn't, and lets their guards score at will because he is incapable of rotating correctly. I'd love to see the metrics you're talking about that rate boozer so well, because the eye test tells me he might be one of the worst defenders in the league.

The differences in Bosh's contract and LeBron's is minimal. Pointing that out does nothing other than show how desperate you to come up with a defense.

Borris Diaw doesn't put up huge numbers on a stacked team... this is nothing new. He has clearly taken Millsap (the supposed MVP of this Jazz team) almost entirely out of this series which is far more important than putting up stats. Sap wasn't sitting alone at his locker last night for no reason, he knows Diaw had kicked his butt this entire series.

Mo Williams was the second best player on the best team in the league when he made the all-star team and is still a very important piece to a contending team. He also was the starting PG for a team that went the ECF multiple times. Not sure why you even brought him up in this discussion...

And Favors has clearly been our best player this entire series. You're a fool to think otherwise. Again, not sure why you even bring him up. This isn't about Favors, it's about the utter failure by Millsap to make a significant impact in the series and and how it shows his limited capabilities in regards to starting for a contending team at the PF spot.

I've always loved Paul Millsap. In fact, I was one of the few people saying that he was going to be a great player before his rookie season was even over with. He has always been one of my all-time favorite Jazz-men... but it's time to wake up and be realistic about his capabilities as a starting PF.

[carrottop12]

If there is one thing that I love that Ty has done all year itaht I really am impressed with it is that he is willing to let the young guys get a lot of burn in these playoffs, rather than shortening the playoff rotation to strictly vets and leaving only garbage minutes to the young guys.

[countrybama24]

The differences in Bosh's contract and LeBron's is minimal. Pointing that out does nothing other than show how desperate you to come up with a defense.

Borris Diaw doesn't put up huge numbers on a stacked team... this is nothing new. He has clearly taken Millsap (the supposed MVP of this Jazz team) almost entirely out of this series which is far more important than putting up stats. Sap wasn't sitting alone at his locker last night for no reason, he knows Diaw had kicked his butt this entire series.

Mo Williams was the second best player on the best team in the league when he made the all-star team and is still a very important piece to a contending team. He also was the starting PG for a team that went the ECF multiple times. Not sure why you even brought him up in this discussion...

And Favors has clearly been our best player this entire series. You're a fool to think otherwise. Again, not sure why you even bring him up. This isn't about Favors, it's about the utter failure by Millsap to make a significant impact in the series and and how it shows his limited capabilities in regards to starting for a contending team at the PF spot.

This post could go into wikipedia's definition of "red herring." You have yet to defend Al's abysmal help defense which I'll point out here is extremely important and over half the game.

Bosh and williams were brought up to illustrate how salary and all-star games ought not determine a players value (metrics you used earlier). Both of those are obviously stupid measures of a players impact. Mo is a solid player. Yet I can think of dozens of non-all-stars who are more valuable. Bosh is only paid a little more than lebron, yet is substantially worse. Thus, neither salary nor all-star appearances are good indicators of value.

I agree favors is our best player. I guess I'll connect the dots for you why I brought him up. I was using favors on-court value despite his poor fg% last game as an analogy for pauls value (albeit, he isn't as good as derrick) despite his poor shooting.

Millsap is a significantly better defender than Al, so when they both are mediocre to poor offensively, at least Paul is still contributing in other ways. Al isn't. Paul is a hustle guy, he's not a first option. "Taking him out of this series" as you mentioned is merely referring to his scoring, fortunately he contributes in other areas, so he hasn't been taken out of this series. It's also absurd to say diaw is playing better than him if you compare their stats. Diaw might be overachieving, and paul is underachieving, but he's not being outplayed.

Paul is paid less, requires less maintenance in terms of ego / game plan, as mentioned before doesn't destroy our defensive rotations, and didn't cost us a lottery pick.

I don't really see anything new in this post except for "nuh uh," so I think we'll just agree to disagree about Paul vs. Al.

[Jazzfan12]

The starting Power Forwards on the title contenders this year are Udonis Haslem, Boris Diaw, and Serge Ibaka and Millsap is much better than all of those players. He's just really bad against the Spurs.

First of all, Ibaka is better than Millsap.

Second, Borris Diaw has outplayed Millsap in this series so...

Thirdly, Miami starts Chris Bosh at their power forward spot.

And finally, if you guys think Millsap is "clearly better" than Bosh and Boozer, you might wanna check salaries and all-star appearances first.

BTW, it's a myth that the Jazz would've been better off starting Millsap instead of Boozer because of Millsap's defense. Statistically, Millsap is not that much better of a defender than Boozer (in fact, he might be worse).

Bosh starts at center for the Heat, Haslem has been starting at PF. Ibaka can barely get 26 minutes a game and gets benched down the stretch of games for Nick Collison all the time. And one series does not equal the quality of players. Millsap can obviously start at PF on a championship team, if he was playing with the early 2000s Lakers, they would obviously still win championships and to argue otherwise would be inane. The argument should come down to whether or not Millsap can be one of the four best players on a title team since title teams start players far worse than Millsap every year but always have around four great players and since Millsap will likely be making 11 million to 13 million a year coming up. Maybe this is semantics, but this definition of the "Millsap isn't good enough" argument annoys me.

[UTJazzFan_Echo1]

This post could go into wikipedia's definition of "red herring." You have yet to defend Al's abysmal help defense which I'll point out here is extremely important and over half the game.

Dude, you're points are entirely irrelevant so don't even start with me.

The discussion isn't about Al Jefferson inabilities nor is it about Favors and his value to the team.

The blind homerism for Millsap is really beginning to annoy.

[russnumber3]

This post could go into wikipedia's definition of "red herring." You have yet to defend Al's abysmal help defense which I'll point out here is extremely important and over half the game.

Dude, you're points are entirely irrelevant so don't even start with me.

The discussion isn't about Al Jefferson inabilities nor is it about Favors and his value to the team.

The blind homerism for Millsap is really beginning to annoy.

I agree with you on this one, Echo. I also have always loved the way that Millsap plays, but I agree completely that neither him or Al are a long term solution. Sure Millsap could be part of a championship team, but he's either got to come off the bench or have an insane group of starters around him. Maybe he could play the 3 along side Bosh at the 4, Ibaka at the 5, and Mo Williams at the point. haha - j/k