The Enes Kanter Thread

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sipclip
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Re: The Enes Kanter Thread 

Post#61 » by sipclip » Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:57 am

StocktonShorts wrote:
andy582 wrote:Would you guys be likely to deal Gobert or Kanter for Kelly Olynyk? I know you were linked to him before the draft, and he's got a great inside-outside game and unusual ball-handling skills for a 7-footer..


I'd do that deal in a second. Literally wouldn't even think twice about it.


So you want to trade Kanter for an older less talented player? Kanter is clearly still a work in progress and it will take time for him to find his role on this team but he will find that role and play some damn good basketball.
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Re: The Enes Kanter Thread 

Post#62 » by SoCalJazzFan » Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:34 pm

Vucevic just got paid on average $13.5M/yr. Kanter is going to ask for around the same. Looking out 3-4 yrs, we can only pay so many players $12M-$15M per year.

I wish I could have watched last night's game, as it looked like Kanter had a nice one. However, 1 good game in 7 isn't enough. I also need to be convinced that he and Favors can play together, or that he is a better combo with Gobert than Favors (neither of which I am convinced of yet) in order to extend him at that price.

He could, however, become a good to a very good center for another team running a more typical offense as I do believe that he is capable of averaging 18 pts and 10 plus rebounds if given the opportunity. The question is how will the opposing player do each game.
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Re: The Enes Kanter Thread 

Post#63 » by sipclip » Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:15 pm

There is no way that anyone could watch this preseason and say that Favors and Kanter haven't looked like a great fit. They have played extremely well together.
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Re: The Enes Kanter Thread 

Post#64 » by sipclip » Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:23 pm

SoCalJazzFan wrote:Vucevic just got paid on average $13.5M/yr. Kanter is going to ask for around the same. Looking out 3-4 yrs, we can only pay so many players $12M-$15M per year.

I wish I could have watched last night's game, as it looked like Kanter had a nice one. However, 1 good game in 7 isn't enough. I also need to be convinced that he and Favors can play together, or that he is a better combo with Gobert than Favors (neither of which I am convinced of yet) in order to extend him at that price.

He could, however, become a good to a very good center for another team running a more typical offense as I do believe that he is capable of averaging 18 pts and 10 plus rebounds if given the opportunity. The question is how will the opposing player do each game.


Under the new CBA a 13mil contract will be more like 9mil when it comes to the cap so we can afford 4 or 5 player in that 13-15mil range without any issues. The fact that we can lock up Favors, Hayward, Kanter and Burks before the cap increase is huge for our rebuilding. Wait one year longer and suddenly every single team in the nba has caproom and some of them will have 80-90mil in caproom. My one worry is that we see Burks and Kanter take the qualifying offer just so they can participate in the feeding frenzy that will happen.
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Re: The Enes Kanter Thread 

Post#65 » by dautjazz » Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:56 pm

sipclip wrote:There is no way that anyone could watch this preseason and say that Favors and Kanter haven't looked like a great fit. They have played extremely well together.


At the end of last year they both started and played well together. Problem for me with Kanter at this point is inconsistency and lack of defense. He's still young so I'm not on full on panic mode, but I definitely like Gobert at this point more.
NickAnderson wrote:
How old are you, just curious.

by gomeziee on 21 Jul 2013 00:53

im 20, and i did grow up watching MJ play in the 90's.
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Re: The Enes Kanter Thread 

Post#66 » by sipclip » Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:50 pm

dautjazz wrote:
sipclip wrote:There is no way that anyone could watch this preseason and say that Favors and Kanter haven't looked like a great fit. They have played extremely well together.


At the end of last year they both started and played well together. Problem for me with Kanter at this point is inconsistency and lack of defense. He's still young so I'm not on full on panic mode, but I definitely like Gobert at this point more.


The problem with Kanter is that I don't think he is capable of guarding opposing 4's that can score. He is just fine when it comes to guarding 5's and 4's that aren't a major offensive threat but when he has to go against a guy like Boozer the other night he just doesn't have the skills to guard him right now. That is why he is such a good fit next to Favors because Favors is more than capable of guarding the better offensive player in the frontcourt. When he is paired with Gobert it is a different story because Kanter always covers the opposing 4's and he can't guard the better 4's right now. Over time I think he will become serviceable at it but nothing to write home about.
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Re: The Enes Kanter Thread 

Post#67 » by SoCalJazzFan » Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:05 pm

sipclip wrote:
SoCalJazzFan wrote:Vucevic just got paid on average $13.5M/yr. Kanter is going to ask for around the same. Looking out 3-4 yrs, we can only pay so many players $12M-$15M per year.

I wish I could have watched last night's game, as it looked like Kanter had a nice one. However, 1 good game in 7 isn't enough. I also need to be convinced that he and Favors can play together, or that he is a better combo with Gobert than Favors (neither of which I am convinced of yet) in order to extend him at that price.

He could, however, become a good to a very good center for another team running a more typical offense as I do believe that he is capable of averaging 18 pts and 10 plus rebounds if given the opportunity. The question is how will the opposing player do each game.


Under the new CBA a 13mil contract will be more like 9mil when it comes to the cap so we can afford 4 or 5 player in that 13-15mil range without any issues. The fact that we can lock up Favors, Hayward, Kanter and Burks before the cap increase is huge for our rebuilding. Wait one year longer and suddenly every single team in the nba has caproom and some of them will have 80-90mil in caproom. My one worry is that we see Burks and Kanter take the qualifying offer just so they can participate in the feeding frenzy that will happen.

When it comes right down to it, even with the new TV deal, I am not sure that the Jazz can afford Kanter in a couple of years.

I've worked out a spreadsheet that includes only those players that the Jazz have drafted or will draft and Favors. I've assumed that the existing rookie pay scale will remain in place until the 2018/19 season (it probably won't) and used the 10th pick next summer and the 15th pick salary after that. I've also assumed four year deals at $10M/yr for Burks and $13.5M/yr for Kanter.

We don't know how the new TV deal (which will kick in 2016 season) will impact the salary cap and tax threshold, but let's assume $80M cap and $95M tax, which is pretty generous as the TV deal might be phased in over the 9 years so that it increases the cap over time, which would make the sense.

These are the results:
2015/16 Season- 10 players under contract (including Novak and 2015 draft pick), $65.5M salary, leaving about $10M -$15M for 4 players before hitting tax, which should be able to be done so long as they are small contracts.

2016/17 Season- 10 players (including 2016 DP), $65.2M- plenty of room with cap and tax.

2017/18 Season- 9 players (with 2017 DP), $65.3M. However, this does not include extensions of Burke and Gobert, or their replacements. Given new revenue, $30M for Burke and Gobert not unreasonable at all, which would put the Jazz at around $95M and still needing 3 players, pushing them into the tax. Hayward could possibly opt out, raising his $16.7M salary.

2018/19 Season- This is where it really gets messed up. $31.7M for Burks, Kanter and last four first round draft picks (with generous assumptions above). Hayward, Favors, Exum, and Hood all up for contract extensions (as well as 2nd year of new contracts of Burke and Gobert). The six of these players, and two others to make a roster of 14, will not be able to be signed for an amount that won't push the franchise into the tax.

As soon as the 2017 season, the Jazz could be looking at paying the tax. Will they have a star or two, or otherwise be able to compete for a Western Conference Championship to justify this expense to the owners? Some of these players will have to fall by the wayside over the next few years as the Jazz aren't a tax paying franchise. Who will it be, and will it begin with Kanter?
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Re: The Enes Kanter Thread 

Post#68 » by sipclip » Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:06 pm

Your salary cap number is very low IMO. I think it jumps up right away to around 90mil with the luxury tax staring around 110. Then gradually moves up and by the 2019 season we are over 100mil for the salary cap and 120 for luxury tax. I also think you are over estimating the extensions that Kanter and Burks will end up receiving.
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Re: The Enes Kanter Thread 

Post#69 » by BudTugly » Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:42 pm

The Jazz never were going to be able to retain all of the young players, unless they weren't very good. I don't see how this is debatable.
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Re: The Enes Kanter Thread 

Post#70 » by Andrew McCeltic » Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:49 pm

How old is Kanter?


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Re: The Enes Kanter Thread 

Post#71 » by kebutah » Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:50 pm

The most unrealistic assumption in this thread is that all of the current young guys will be part of the future, even with salary cap increases.
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Re: The Enes Kanter Thread 

Post#72 » by SoCalJazzFan » Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:05 am

sipclip wrote:Your salary cap number is very low IMO. I think it jumps up right away to around 90mil with the luxury tax staring around 110. Then gradually moves up and by the 2019 season we are over 100mil for the salary cap and 120 for luxury tax. I also think you are over estimating the extensions that Kanter and Burks will end up receiving.

If the salary cap increases 50%-60%, then the salaries will too. So, Kanter will be looking for nearly $20M/yr and Burks $15M/yr. Rookie contracts will increase too. If either Exum or Gobert become a star, their contract could be nearly $30M/yr.
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Re: The Enes Kanter Thread 

Post#73 » by SoCalJazzFan » Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:08 am

kebutah wrote:The most unrealistic assumption in this thread is that all of the current young guys will be part of the future, even with salary cap increases.

True, although the Jazz are not a free agent destination, and seem to be building through the draft.

The question then becomes, which players are the Jazz not going to extend/keep? Choosing between Favors and Kanter, particularly with the emergence of Gobert, and later Burke and Exum seems to make the most sense.
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Re: The Enes Kanter Thread 

Post#74 » by Winglish » Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:23 am

Has anyone EVER said that scoring offense is Kanter's problem?
According to today's Salt Lake Tribune, Kanter was benched in the previous game due to missing his defensive rotations. Seems like he got mad. Maybe Kanter needs a good benching more often.
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Re: The Enes Kanter Thread 

Post#75 » by sipclip » Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:07 am

SoCalJazzFan wrote:
sipclip wrote:Your salary cap number is very low IMO. I think it jumps up right away to around 90mil with the luxury tax staring around 110. Then gradually moves up and by the 2019 season we are over 100mil for the salary cap and 120 for luxury tax. I also think you are over estimating the extensions that Kanter and Burks will end up receiving.

If the salary cap increases 50%-60%, then the salaries will too. So, Kanter will be looking for nearly $20M/yr and Burks $15M/yr. Rookie contracts will increase too. If either Exum or Gobert become a star, their contract could be nearly $30M/yr.


Their extensions would be before the new tv deal.
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Re: The Enes Kanter Thread 

Post#76 » by zimpy27 » Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:04 am

Getting robbed if Kanter gets more than 10 million a year with the way he has played to date. Will have to watch him play this year.
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Re: The Enes Kanter Thread 

Post#77 » by Luigi » Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:57 pm

It's not a good idea to get a loan before you get a raise. Is it a good idea to offer extensions like the TV deal has already kicked in?

I mean, sure, you're going to get a raise (maybe you even have scheduled raises), but you still wait to adjust your lifestyle until the money is actually coming in. And you don't go hog wild on a boat you don't need a year before your raise comes.
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Re: The Enes Kanter Thread 

Post#78 » by Hoops Addict » Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:19 pm

I'd like to point out it was cool to see Kanter scored 27 points recently.
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Re: The Enes Kanter Thread 

Post#79 » by pickIBL » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:32 pm

I'm not sure how likely a Kanter trade is. I suspect a summer showdown is more likely, but I hope the Jazz are paying attention to what's going on around the league.

The Celtics trade doesn't make a lot of sense.
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Re: The Enes Kanter Thread 

Post#80 » by Joao Saraiva » Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:04 am

If Kanter keeps showing this kind of effort I hope this thread is on another team's board next year.
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