The Enes Kanter Thread

[goober]

I think we will be bad enough to be in the discussion for the #1 overall pick, kick Kanter to the curb and draft Okafor or Turner or Towns jr all will be cheaper and will be a fresh start

[Winglish]

Trade while you still can.

[falcon107]

Last year first draft place was a possibility.

This year it will not be possible. The team will be better.

[laika]

We must get rid of him as soon as possible.

Neither Kanter nor Favors can play PF. There is no way to solve this. If neither has learned to shoot after several years in the league they probably never will. You can't even have them split minutes at center since Gobert is a better center than Kanter.

Since Favors is significantly better on defense than Kanter you must get rid of Kanter.

[Luigi]

We must get rid of him as soon as possible.

Neither Kanter nor Favors can play PF. There is no way to solve this. If neither has learned to shoot after several years in the league they probably never will. You can't even have them split minutes at center since Gobert is a better center than Kanter.

Since Favors is significantly better on defense than Kanter you must get rid of Kanter.

I think this is probably true. I sometimes start hoping that a new system will make things work with Kanter and Favors together. But we've seen them for a few years now. They'll continue to improve, but they are what they are.

Maybe he'll break out this year, though.

[BudTugly]

With Philly getting into the Love deal allegedly moving Young and picking up Bennett, I thought it'd be a good idea to dig this back up.

I'm starting to have some movement in my Kanter attitude.

Not that I think any differently about him as a player but looking back, the Jazz have invested so heavily in him with the pick, letting borderline All-Star players walk, passing on other opportunities, and several years of painful development. All that put together is just too much investment to be looking at him in terms of present value.

Trying to get into the heads of the FO, I think they are going to do what a lot of posters here want, which is to start him, coach him, and hope for the best. If this is in fact the plan, it is incumbent upon them to extend Enes as soon as possible since he currently is not moving the needle at all. Try to get him locked up to a reasonable number, I'm not sure what that is in the current market. Maybe 8-9 per.

There is a very real possibility that with a different offensive philosophy Kanter and Favors will in fact pass a lot more. I do know for sure that Corbin used both of them a ton in isolation situations so that problem is partially on him, although to his credit he couldn't have done more to develop their footwork and moves down there.

Anyways at this point IMO it's very unlikely that Kanter is traded unless he makes a big stink about it himself. All I can think of that would keep us from hearing about the FO making an effort towards extension would be injury concerns.

[eLo]

We must get rid of him as soon as possible.

Neither Kanter nor Favors can play PF. There is no way to solve this. If neither has learned to shoot after several years in the league they probably never will. You can't even have them split minutes at center since Gobert is a better center than Kanter.

Since Favors is significantly better on defense than Kanter you must get rid of Kanter.

I think this is probably true. I sometimes start hoping that a new system will make things work with Kanter and Favors together. But we've seen them for a few years now. They'll continue to improve, but they are what they are.

Maybe he'll break out this year, though.

Corbin was who he was lets remember this, suddenly Al under new coach is not such tragic defender and Sap is decent one in Utah they were horrible duo, when you look on both Fav and Enes at least on paper they are good match, one is athletic and def stud second is very strong with great post moves so lets just hope Snyder is right guy to make them one of the best big duo in the whole league cuz potential is there.

[SoCalJazzFan]

Perhaps it is my revisionist memory, but I seem to recall there being much more discussion in the media last year at this time about Favors and Hayward's extensions, but nearly none on Kanter and Burks. I am not sure what to make of it.

[BudTugly]

Perhaps it is my revisionist memory, but I seem to recall there being much more discussion in the media last year at this time about Favors and Hayward's extensions, but nearly none on Kanter and Burks. I am not sure what to make of it.

It is weird. Burks was basically replacing Gordon as 6th man, and arguably was just as good at it. Fans of other teams are sniffing at him, the interest is not unjustified. Burks is pretty good. Kanter, not as much but still should be getting at least some kind of offer.

Maybe it's just that Snyder hasn't given his evaluations and preferences to the FO yet. When it was the other two's time the coach had been around and everybody was real clear about wanting to keep them.

[SoCalJazzFan]

Two weeks before Kanter becomes a RFA.

With a limited sample size, what would you do if you were the Jazz? I would wait.

Although Kanter has shown increased shooting range, outside of about 15 feet it starts looking unnatural. Kanter has also shown a better ability to pass, but not great, at least yet. We all know Kanter's strengths and weaknesses in the paint (great offensive moves, strength like an ox, but plays below the rim). Having to play PF and being somewhat of a stretch PF is exposing Kanter's limitations in defending in space.

Kanter will demand $12M+, and right now the Jazz probably aren't sure if he is even worth a fraction of that. Perhaps by the end of the season he is worth more than that. I'd be ok paying him $15M per year if he shows he is worth it, but I am not ok paying him even $10M per year based on what we know so far.

If Kanter demands too much or is given an offer that is unreasonable, there is a potentially great alternative who is an UFA next summer- Paul Millsap. Millsap, from what I have seen so far, would fit Snyder's system like a glove. He has shooting range easily out to the 3pt line, but can score in the paint as well. He is a bit short, but still holds his own defensively for the most part, and is certainly able to defend in space. Pairing him with Favors or Gobert will decrease his defensive liabilities significantly (remember in the past he mainly played with Big Al who didn't play defense at all those years, and before then Okur and Boozer- none of whom are great rim protectors). He could probably be had for 3 years $30M-$35M. The downside is that you get him at the end of his career, but you have 3 years to find or develop the next starting PF.

[Inigo Montoya]

We need to keep in mind that bigs get paid in this league, like it or not. Taking that into account, 10M for a 22 year old big with a good offensive game and strong rebounding capabilities seems like a bargain, and a good investment. I doubt the Jazz will be able to sign him for that much though. 12M seems steep, since he definitely didn't prove he deserves it yet, but that'd be a decent value for him all things considered, and also seems more realistic in terms of what he'll eventually get.

As for Kanter's long range shot - I think his form is ok. The main problem with him imho is that too often he gets the ball and steps into the shot, which causes him to take a jump-shot while moving forward a bit, which obviously throws his balance and shot off, causing it to be too strong. He needs to work on that, and either shoot as a set-shooter with his feet on the ground, or work on his balance and shoot his jumpers going straight up and not up and forward. With better decision making about when to take shots, he'll also get better looks and won't have to rush his shot, like I've seen him do sometimes. I didn't look into it and don't have the data to back this up, but my impression is that when he gets the ball while stationary, he's shooting quite well. His stroke seems smooth and fluid, and also quite fast - indicative of good muscle memory. It will take some work, but I think we'll see some positive results from him if we stick with him, though I would much rather seeing him as close to the basket as possible, with his mid-range shot complementing his game.

[SoCalJazzFan]

I think that we need to be careful of falling into the trap of becoming overly enamored or faithful to our own players.

There are players that are of similar size, position and stats that are getting paid less than $6M per year. Examples off of the top of my head (which might fit the Snyder system better than Kanter) include Patterson and Humphries http://bkref.com/tiny/Rx6PA.

[Inigo Montoya]

Kanter is much bigger and stronger than Patterson, and with much better footwork and post presence. Kanter is also much more promising than Humphries and a better post player, and is much younger than both. Also, Humphries is just coming off a 12M per year deal (for two years).

I definitely agree with you about being overly enamored with our players. But regardless of what we think of them and about how good can they be, there is the business aspect of it all. We just saw with Hayward that getting paid isn't just about how good you are (he's good, but not elite). And bigs tend to get paid even when they aren't that good, quite often.

[BudTugly]

If I see that dude making an effort to defend, set good screens, run and pass I'll get back on the bandwagon.

No question the guy has some talent.

[SoCalJazzFan]

Kanter is much bigger and stronger than Patterson, and with much better footwork and post presence. Kanter is also much more promising than Humphries and a better post player, and is much younger than both. Also, Humphries is just coming off a 12M per year deal (for two years).

I definitely agree with you about being overly enamored with our players. But regardless of what we think of them and about how good can they be, there is the business aspect of it all. We just saw with Hayward that getting paid isn't just about how good you are (he's good, but not elite). And bigs tend to get paid even when they aren't that good, quite often.

From what I have seen so far (admittedly two preseason games is a limited sample size), the PF position (which Kanter is now playing) will not be as post-centric as it has been in the past. This, along with the emphasis on transition defense and the need to guard PFs in space, could bode ill for Kanter as he is really a center with great post moves, but no vertical lift and an inability to defend the rim.

[Inigo Montoya]

Kanter is much bigger and stronger than Patterson, and with much better footwork and post presence. Kanter is also much more promising than Humphries and a better post player, and is much younger than both. Also, Humphries is just coming off a 12M per year deal (for two years).

I definitely agree with you about being overly enamored with our players. But regardless of what we think of them and about how good can they be, there is the business aspect of it all. We just saw with Hayward that getting paid isn't just about how good you are (he's good, but not elite). And bigs tend to get paid even when they aren't that good, quite often.

From what I have seen so far (admittedly two preseason games is a limited sample size), the PF position (which Kanter is now playing) will not be as post-centric as it has been in the past. This, along with the emphasis on transition defense and the need to guard PFs in space, could bode ill for Kanter as he is really a center with great post moves, but no vertical lift and an inability to defend the rim.

I agree with your assessment. Obviously, there is a gap between what I'd like to see and what Snyder is going to do. The safe bet is to go with Snyder...

[MalonesElbows]

Kanter's problem isn't effort related. It's not athletic related. He just doesn't understand the game. He doesn't read or anticipate well on either side of the floor. My biggest complaint with him is he tries for blocks when he's beat and should be blocking out for a rebound. I'm not saying go into full Carlos Boozer mode, but you have to know your limitations.

The Jazz have to consider trading him. Because Hood and Exums second contracts will begin while Kanter is still on the books if they extend/match him.

[Hoops Addict]

I have defended Kanter and have been a huge fan. It is discouraging how he gets destroyed on defense.

No way does he deserve more than $5M a year......got forbid he gets an offer for $10m plus.

His defense is so bad that he would need to be awesome on offense to make things equal. I say let him play...hope he get better....then let him g if he gets an offer over $6M.

[Hikari]

The new TV deal will have an impact on the numbers he is offered. I promise he is getting more than $6M. The same reason Hayward got the max. People say it was too much but the max that Hayward is getting will not look bad in a few years when you look at the $$ amount and not think of it as a MAX contract.

[falcon107]

You are hard on Kanter.

His role at the team changed. Gobert is playing center, Favors is playing what he used to play. And they are doing it great. But under new coach Kanter is asked to play as PF, he is asked to shoot whenever he is open, and pass more. These are new for him at Utah. Give him some more matches. 5 games are simply not enough.

And always keep it in mind, defence is way easier to learn or progress, offence is harder. If you have a good offensive player it is better to keep him instead of good defensive player & maybe sometimes defence wins the game, but always offensive players are paid more, as they ware the ones who make the game watchable.