Last year Favors/Kanter avg. (25.6 ppg / 16.2 rpg/ 2 bpg)

[BudTugly]

Enough of this blame everything on Corbin thing, to my knowledge Corbin has more wins in NBA than Snyder so far.

But Snyder has better hair. Advantage - Snyder.

Mustache beats hair though. Ty has him a sweet pencil thin stache.

[Inigo Montoya]

Enough of this blame everything on Corbin thing, to my knowledge Corbin has more wins in NBA than Snyder so far.

But Snyder has better hair. Advantage - Snyder.

Mustache beats hair though. Ty has him a sweet pencil thin stache.

Snyder looks like a badass super-villain. Advantage - Snyder.

[JazzyPhinz]

how about you check how much their direct opponents averaged. And with those two starting Jazz won 3 games.

How about the fact they basically only started together the first 10 games of the season?
With John Lucas running PG since Trey was hurt.

Whaaaaaaat??? Get your facts straight bud, they started together more than 10 games first of all - Enes started 37 games last season FYI. Second how is Lucas affecting Kanter's pathetic one on one defense? See stats from 82games for example. None of any Jazz player combinations with Favors-Kanter playing together outscored their opponents. Lets take closer look and take Lucas out of picture.
+/-
Burke-Hayward-Jefferson-Favors-Kanter 205min -60
Burke-Burks-Hayward-Favors-Kanter 123 min -11
Tinsley-Hayward-Jefferson-Favors-Kanter 64 min -44
Burks-Hayward-Jefferson-Favors-Kanter 58 min -17
Burke-Burks-Jefferson-Favors-Kanter 41 min -4
Garrett-Burks-Hayward-Favors-Kanter 27 min -9

Even to most crazy homer it is obvious - Favors and Kanter is terrible flawed frontcourt duo and Jazz are better when those two are not at the same time on the floor. It is just a matter of time when Gobert will replace one of them as main center.

How many games did they actually start together? Kanter started 37 games with Favors?
The only time they started together was mainly in the beginning of the season, with John Lucas as I said. Fact.

Marvin was running the starting 4 most of the year.

The rest of the year was a tank job and no one played with motivation. You cannot say they cant play together with certainty and stats from a tanking season doesnt prove anything.

I still cant say for sure they will be great together, but we have a new coach that I believe can get way more than Corbin got out of them. The fact that we still dont know for sure is why Corbin is gone.

[Viktor Vaughn]

If you make 30% of them - how is that coaches fault? If somebody scores on you on daily basis maybe you are doing something wrong and not coach.

Have you ever worked for a boss you didn't like? Didn't believe in? Didn't respect?

This is really an amazing point that I'm surprised doesn't get brought up more, because it's absolutely true.

[AK47MVP]

How many games did they actually start together? Kanter started 37 games with Favors?
The only time they started together was mainly in the beginning of the season, with John Lucas as I said. Fact.

Why people don't bother checking facts and than stupidly trying to claim as facts? Seriously before Marwin was introduced into starting PF spot Favors and Kanter starting combo had 1-17 record.
http://weareutahjazz.com/lockedonjazz/2 ... -together/
And that was already 8 games with Trey back. Favors and Kanter started together 28 games and produced 3 wins.

Lucas has nothing to do with simple truth that Favors and Kanter are bad together and there were always in negative +/- no matter who was playing with them.

[BudTugly]

Marwin, ha. Very Freudian.

[Inigo Montoya]

Lucas has nothing to do with simple truth that Favors and Kanter are bad together and there were always in negative +/- no matter who was playing with them.

Tinsley, Lucas and Trey are all terrible defenders at the PG position. Only guy who was semi-decent was Garrett. Fact is, that no matter who they played with, the back court was porous and defensibly weak. Why wouldn't they have a negative +/- under such conditions? They were part of one of the worst defenses in the league, and it's not all on them.

[AK47MVP]

Lucas has nothing to do with simple truth that Favors and Kanter are bad together and there were always in negative +/- no matter who was playing with them.

Tinsley, Lucas and Trey are all terrible defenders at the PG position. Only guy who was semi-decent was Garrett. Fact is, that no matter who they played with, the back court was porous and defensibly weak. Why wouldn't they have a negative +/- under such conditions? They were part of one of the worst defenses in the league, and it's not all on them.

Yet some other front court player combos ended up with positive with Burke, Garrett or even Lucas... How come? You can't just simply put +/- on bad defense of all team. Even if they suck defensively if they would play well offensively that would end them in plus. As much as Corbin gets blamed for everything inserting M.Williams into starting lineup was positive change resulting in more wins.

[Inigo Montoya]

Yet some other front court player combos ended up with positive with Burke, Garrett or even Lucas... How come? You can't just simply put +/- on bad defense of all team. Even if they suck defensively if they would play well offensively that would end them in plus.

+\- is deceiving, but it is a team game, and the way one player defends affects other positions as well. Looking at the 5 man lineups for the Jazz last season, we can clearly see there are very few lineups with positive +\- overall, especially ones who played more than 1 or two games together overall. In fact, the lineup who played 32 games together (4th most) has a (narrowly) positive +\- of 0.8, and Kanter is a part of it while Favors is absent (only averaged 4.1 minutes though).

The point being, these stats can be spun every which way you want, but when the team's defense is so bad, everyone's +\- take a big hit, so it is unfair to single out players while absolving the coach, who orchestrated that defense in the first place. If anything, the fact that almost all lineups have a negative +\- is a scathing indictment of said coach and his part and responsibility for the team's defense .

Even if they suck defensively if they would play well offensively that would end them in plus. As much as Corbin gets blamed for everything inserting M.Williams into starting lineup was positive change resulting in more wins.

Yes, which was counter productive since it was a tanking year. The Jazz would have been better served playing Kanter and Favors more and figure out how to play them together. It may well be they can't play together, but at least if the Jazz gave it an honest chance, then they'd know for certain. Now, they don't, and they need to decide if they want to shell out the money to extend Kanter. I also think it is unreasonable to expect a 21 year old kid with limited basketball experience to have as good of a grasp of defensive and offensive concepts as a 27 year old seasoned vet.

[MalonesElbows]

I see little use for Kanter in Quin's system unless he can hit the three. The good news is he should be able to hit the corner three. Basketball reference shows he is 39% lifetime from 16-23 feet. Exact same as Kevin Love's career % from that range.

[BudTugly]

I see little use for Kanter in Quin's system unless he can hit the three. The good news is he should be able to hit the corner three. Basketball reference shows he is 39% lifetime from 16-23 feet. Exact same as Kevin Love's career % from that range.

Please post an illustration or video of Quinn's system, that would be instructive. Also anything that would show Quinn is unwilling to adjust his coaching style to the players rather than vice verse.

[Winglish]

Please post an illustration or video of Quinn's system, that would be instructive. Also anything that would show Quinn is unwilling to adjust his coaching style to the players rather than vice verse.

You already know the second half of your post is impossible to gauge. The system run in summer league was an exact replica of the Atlanta Hawks under Budenholzer las year (not the old Hawk offense created by Hubie Brown). Who knows what more will be added.

In fairness to MalonesElbows, Paul Millsap took 2.9 threes per year last season after never having taken more than .5 per game at any previous time in his career. According to both Locke and Lindsey, Kanter is expected to play the Millsap role in Snyder's offense this season.

The one thing the Jazz were doing in summer league differently than Atlanta was running a wing to the corner every play. That's straight out of the Spurs' playbook, and may well be an adjustment that says Kanter will not shoot it from deep like Millsap did last season. I predict Hayward/Hood/Burks will be tossing up more corner three point shots than Jazz fans are used to seeing.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WXy40z49jU4

[Curtis Lemansky]

I dont think last year could be used as a fair evaluation of Kanter - Favors duo. Whole team was terrible defensively, I found this article very interesting.

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nba/4 ... mbers-game

Utah had the worst post- up, cut and spot-up defense, 2nd worst transition defense, 5th worst in defending isolations and pick and rolls (where the ball handler ended up using the possesion), 4th worst in pick and roll defense where the possession is used by the roll man. The team basically was in the bottom-5 in every available defensive metric and the blame should be put on the coach, not just on a combination of 2 players. The team might not have the makings of a defensive beast however if a team is basically at the bottom of all defensive metrics, then there was certainly something wrong with the defensive strategies. Steve Clifford showed how a good coach can implement a defensive system best suited to its players strengths and create a top-10 defense despite not having a plus defender in the entire roster except MKG and not having an interior player who can offer rim protection.

[Luigi]

The team basically was in the bottom-5 in every available defensive metric and the blame should be put on the coach, not just on a combination of 2 players. The team might not have the makings of a defensive beast however if a team is basically at the bottom of all defensive metrics, then there was certainly something wrong with the defensive strategies. Steve Clifford showed how a good coach can implement a defensive system best suited to its players strengths and create a top-10 defense despite not having a plus defender in the entire roster except MKG and not having an interior player who can offer rim protection.

Corbin should share the blame for the defense with the roster. But a lot of posters seem to expect that our core players are going to go through a complete renaissance because of Snyder. That seems unrealistic to me. Hopefully they get used better. But I don't think Corbin actually had OKC's roster and coached them down to 25 wins. I don't think Kanter and Favors are actually Gasol and ZBo. The changes will be modest.

[Curtis Lemansky]

Steve Clifford coached a team with a starting frontcourt of Al Jefferson and Josh McRoberts and produced a top-10 defense. Neither is renowned for their defensive skils. I think Kanter and Favors can be at least a passable defensive duo with some good coaching.

By the way, Randolph was known as a pretty bad defensive player as well since he was never a mobile player, never offered rim protection and generally had very poor defensive stats. He averaged 0.9 spg / 0.3 bpg per 36 min during his career. His drtg was pretty bad (comparable to Kanter's ) in the years before he joined Memphis. Once he got paired with Gasol and got a decent defensive system around him, his drtg (and his defensive reputation) improved dramatically. And we are talking about an 8 year period of defensive problems on 4 different teams(his last in Portland, his NY, LAC year and his first season on Memphis) where he posted a drtg between 107 and 112. (As a reference point, Kanter's drtg is 105, 107, 112)

[Luigi]

Charlotte did have a nice turnaround, and Jefferson is their biggest change, which you wouldn't credit for making a good defense. It makes me wonder if the metrics are overly sensitive to pace--slowingthe game down ith Al's post game might make them look better. But either way, I'm not sold that our team is going to have a big turnaround.

Hornacek changed Phoenix in 1 year. But I don't think that's a good reason to believe we are going to have a giant change. I mentioned Gasol and ZBo as a pair of bigs that fit extremely well together. (And I still think ZBo is a bad defender.) I don't think we'll discover that Kanter and Favors have actually been a match made in heaven all along, and that Corbin was the only thing stopping it from working. I think we have real problems with the core that have nothing to do with coaching. I really do hope things go much better with Snyder, but I think the expectations of a big turnaround in record or chemistry are too high.

[Jefff]

Corbin made the right move (starting Marvin Williams) to win a few more games, but team's goal was not to win 5 or 6 more games, was develop the future of the franchise. Kanter or Favors, maybe both, are the future of this franchise, play them!

Also, i will note that in the west, big teams play with big guys: Memphis, Okc, SA, LAC, even LAL until was e big team.

[Inigo Montoya]

Charlotte did have a nice turnaround, and Jefferson is their biggest change, which you wouldn't credit for making a good defense. It makes me wonder if the metrics are overly sensitive to pace--slowingthe game down ith Al's post game might make them look better.

IIRC, the Jazz had one of the slower paces in the league (25th) while having one of the worst defenses too, so I don't know if those metrics are overly sensitive to slow pace. That being said, those metrics can be spun in various ways.

I really do hope things go much better with Snyder, but I think the expectations of a big turnaround in record or chemistry are too high.

I think finding the right system on both offense and defense, which plays to players' strengths and knows how to cover for one's defensive deficiencies is the key. Looking at the Jazz's roster and the acquisitions during free agency, I don't expect a turnaround in the team's record - it looks like the Jazz are tanking again. The chemistry issue can be change for the better imho, based on the change in coaching, hopefully a better system that the players embrace more, the change in roster personnel, and the added time some of the players got to build on after another season of playing with each other.

[supermelo]

I love this two big guy, especially in Fantasy Game. Derrick Favors has a lot of rebounds and blocks. And many Fantasy GM didnt know Enes Kanter, but i always think Kanter is underrated...
lets watch this two big guys radar chart
http://www.fansboard.com/playerAbility? ... nes-Kanter

[Trifecta47]

Corbin sucks -- end of story. All arguments relating to Corbin are hereby rendered moot and inadmissible!