Exum should start.

[maccca3232]

The stronger you feel that Trey isn't the long term PG solution the stronger I feel we should leave Trey as the starting PG.

If Trey isn't the long term answer then we need to that make sure that Dante is.

I just don't think any short term benefits of starting Dante (a couple of extra wins but still no playoffs) outweight the long term benefits of developing him slowly.

[Luigi]

So, why start Exum? If it's to win more games, I don't that that's a very strong reason, unless somehow we start sniffing playoffs.

But I think the idea is that it might be good for his development. I'm not sure. I do think that big stars almost always prove that they are big stars in their first couple of years. But I think they get playing time because they are good, more than that they are good because they get playing time. Its true that you can't replicate game time in practice. But I don't think that 5 more minutes a game will make a big difference in a player's development, but I do think that a big difference in a player's development will mean 5 more minutes a game.

So I can hope he starts dominating and gets the starting spot. But I don't think giving it to him will make him start dominating.

[BarneyGumble]

Trey Burke is making it impossible for us to trade him. He got lit up tonight by a guy with gray hair who was sitting on his couch 4 days ago. I thought maybe I was being hard on Trey and that I just didn't like him for some reason. Nope. His play this season has justified everything I felt about him. He may not make it in this league, even as a backup, unless he finds a skill other than shooting 3's, or else actually makes a few of the ones he takes now and then.

[JazzMatt13]

They locked the "is burke worst PG in league", so this is what i was going to write: (since it was a valid subject)

Burke almost has forgotten what to do. He doesn't seem capable of running offense, while Hayward is bossing it up, fully capable of getting his own shot, or setting up others.

Exum has been getting even minutes, but for some damn reason, the night Burke has one of saddest performances of the year for a starter, we decide to play him even longer, and bench Exum even longer. But to be fair Exum wasn't exactly wowing anyone vs Pacers.

Hayward is playing facilitator. Even with Hayward running offense since Burke can't, Burke can't even make the wide open 3 pointers. Exum and Gobert are the future stars of this team, they work magic. But it will be awhile till they are ready for starter minutes 82 games.

[BarneyGumble]

They locked the "is burke worst PG in league", so this is what i was going to write: (since it was a valid subject)

Burke almost has forgotten what to do. He doesn't seem capable of running offense, while Hayward is bossing it up, fully capable of getting his own shot, or setting up others.

Exum has been getting even minutes, but for some damn reason, the night Burke has one of saddest performances of the year for a starter, we decide to play him even longer, and bench Exum even longer. But to be fair Exum wasn't exactly wowing anyone vs Pacers.

Hayward is playing facilitator. Even with Hayward running offense since Burke can't, Burke can't even make the wide open 3 pointers. Exum and Gobert are the future stars of this team, they work magic. But it will be awhile till they are ready for starter minutes 82 games.

Whats with the Nazi mods on the General Board? Why lock that thread? They locked my Gordon Hay-Bird thread and when I asked why I was banned from the General Board...I still can't post there! Seriously? Is that how you grow a business....? lol

[JazzMatt13]

Check this:

Dante Exum is getting 10 minutes less a game, half as many attempts, but is only making 3 less points, by 16% better efficiency and 7% better 3pt. Burke is only getting .9 more assists, 1.0 more rebounds, but is also getting 1.0 more TO's.

Obviously Burke is playing starters, but Exum doesn't have Hayward holding his hand facilitating him on shooting. Exum also doesn't have Hayward to make all his assists come to fruition. I can't find the stats site that shows all of the lineups and how good they are, but I am sure Exum is playing less minutes with Hayward than Burke.

[JazzMatt13]

I found it.

I thought Exum is generally playing with Ingles, Booker and Gobert. But check this:

Bukre, Burks Hayward, Favors and Kanter equal 69.1 minutes with 33% WIN%

Exum, Hayward, Inges, Booker and Gobert equal 17.0 minutes with 75% WIN% The BEST 5 man lineup on Jazz.

[JazzMatt13]

For some reason Kanter isn't good with our players, swap out our 33% line up and add Booker and it becomes 60% WIN% and also our highest Off Efficiency line up. That line up is actually +15 rather than -9 with Kanter.

Also, Exum is being tossed around, Burke has consistency. Exum has 64.8 Min from 7 line ups, Burke has 69.1 from 1 line up, and 99.7 min from 2 line ups.

[MHSL82]

If we didn't have Exum, I would have been the first to come on here and say that Burke would be fine and that he'd overcome this, yada, yada, yada. But with Exum, I don't see why we have to wait for him to improve to say it's a concern and not just a bad streak. It's a major concern because he wasn't that good of a shooter to begin with, even on layups (though he makes a better percentage there than elsewhere like everyone).

I heard on the radio the host saying how he saw Exum with the ball with five seconds on the shot clock and he wondered whether Exum would notice the clock and shoot a hurried shot or let the clock go off unnoticing (a rookie mistake). What did Exum do? He pump faked, dribbled, and found Hayward open for a made three-pointer. He knew how long five seconds was and what he could do in that time with no panic.

He's a point guard. That's something I've wanted since Williams left. I don't need no stinking shooting guard. I like that he wants to pass and he's good at it with great vision.

[MHSL82]

Do you think the minutes will shift over time?

What I would like would be:

Burke to start now and play until the 2 minute mark.
Exum to come in at the 4 minute mark and play until the 6 minute mark of the second.
Burke to come back in at the 8 minute mark of the second and finish it out.

That would give Burke 18 minutes and Exum 10 minutes, with 4 minutes overlapping.

Burke to start the third and play until the 4 minute mark.
Exum to come in at the 6 minute mark and play until the 4 minute mark of the fourth.
Burke to come back in at the 10 minute mark of the second and finish it out.

That would give Burke 18 minutes and Exum 14 minutes with 8 minutes of overlapping.

Adjust it if one is playing well or not.

This is IF Snyder is genuine about playing both ad both being guards and taking into account Exum's youth and tendency to get tired out.

[BiggMann]

It's official. Exum should start.

I thought that it would be at least a half season before Exum passed Burke, but it's clear that he already has.
Exum is already a better shooter, passer and defender. Exum wins in every box score stat. But the +/- numbers make it obvious as well. Burke is at minus 32 for the season, Exum is at plus 8. 5 points a game better is a lot in the NBA.
Dante plays 20 minutes a game already. I'm sure he can handle playing 30. As for trade value, Burke already has zero. GMs are not that dumb.

If you've got something constructive to add to the conversation, go ahead. Name calling isn't appreciated.

[SoCalJazzFan]

Personally, I am willing to give both Burke and Kanter until the end of Dec before considering to bench or trying to trade them (if benching is an option, trading might not be) if they don't start making strides. It's not like the Jazz are fighting for a good playoff seed this year. However, given last year's performance and the continuation of those trends into this year for both of them, they are the players with the biggest targets on their backs right now.

[JazzMatt13]

Personally, I am willing to give both Burke and Kanter until the end of Dec before considering to bench or trying to trade them (if benching is an option, trading might not be) if they don't start making strides. It's not like the Jazz are fighting for a good playoff seed this year. However, given last year's performance and the continuation of those trends into this year for both of them, they are the players with the biggest targets on their backs right now.

Bottom line, stats are whatever, Wins are everything. I don't care if Burke goes down as worst Point Guard for the 2015 season, I wouldn't care if we win....well up to a point.

If we got .500, and Burke wasn't even top 30 in Point Guards, no would could complain. We would say, at least were winning. But then we would start wondering how much better we could be if we could win with a top point guard.

Jazz are famous for having bench players better than the starters and fans wanting the bench players to start or get more minutes, but if you swapped those players too soon, they couldn't do as much, cause they couldn't do what they did on bench, with pressure of starters and competition. Personally I think Trey can handle pressure more, cause he got trial by fire. Exum is being pampered, which might make him more weak. I want him starting here and there, and I want him to have burden. Even if he ends up being a bench point guard at best, we still need him as a keystone leader who wins games for us.

[MHSL82]

It's pretty bad when a 5-15 night raises your FG% for the year. Let's hope for 6-15 next game.

But I sid like Trey's 11 assists.

[Inigo Montoya]

It's pretty bad when a 5-15 night raises your FG% for the year. Let's hope for 6-15 next game.

But I sid like Trey's 11 assists.

How about just hoping Trey won't shoot 15 times? That's just ridiculous.

[JazzMatt13]

I will take 11 assists all day, every week. I don't want a Rubio who doesn't shoot, but seriously, Burke needs to stop thinking he is main offensive scorer.

He should be focusing on getting others points, and keeping the 3 pointer only to keep the defender and spread the floor.

10 shots a game is all he needs, 5 should be 3 pointers and 5 should be from penetration, with a good 5 FTA a game. I don't see why we would have him shoot jump shots.


Hayward is the better jump shooter. Burks is the better penetrater. Kanter is the better paint scorer. And Favors is the better finisher when getting the ball off the boards. Meaning Burke only has the 3 pointer, and if he can't make them, then he needs to find other outlets. His only goal should be 11 assists and a Win. We shouldn't be making him shoot more.

My only real goals for Burke were, to keep what he had last year, but get that pentration going with more FTA and get that assist to 10. I know Hayward is the better facilitator and leader, so Burke will get many open 3's. but we either need Burks getting open for easier jump shots so Burke can pass, or for Burke to grow some and get to the rim. I love seeing guys get open 3's and run to the rim, its the best way to scramble defense, especially when you do the pump fake.

[tleikheen]

My only real goals for Burke were, to keep what he had last year, but get that penetration going with more FTA and get that assist to 10.

dribble ,dribble ,dribble ,dribble.......pass on that

[Amish Mafioso]

As for trade value, Burke already has zero. GMs are not that dumb.

GMs are smart enough to know you don't give up on player you spent 2 first rounders on after one year. Utah has nothing to lose by continuing with Trey in hopes he'll raise his trade value, and plenty to lose by giving up on him.

[Inigo Montoya]

As for trade value, Burke already has zero. GMs are not that dumb.

GMs are smart enough to know you don't give up on player you spent 2 first rounders on after one year. Utah has nothing to lose by continuing with Trey in hopes he'll raise his trade value, and plenty to lose by giving up on him.

That's true. The question is in what role should Trey play? He's being exposed as a starter, and won't increase his trade value in that role most likely. If we made him a 2nd PG, and a 6th man off the bench, he might show some improvement and raise his value.

[Hoops Addict]

http://www.nba.com/jazz/features/5-ways ... xpectaions

5 Ways Exum is Exceeding Expectations

Posted: Nov 14, 2014
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By Chad Mobley, utahjazz.com

A year ago, he was just finishing high school. Eight months ago, he went grocery shopping without his parents for the first time. Five months ago, he came to the Utah Jazz. And last week, he dribbled across midcourt to face elite defenders like LeBron James and Chris Paul as he launched his NBA career. Danté Exum has been asked to do a lot of growing up in the last 12 months, and expectations for the international man of mystery's debut season were low.

That didn't last long.

The 19-year-old Australian obviously has a lot to learn in his transition from prep to pro, but he's already turning heads. This week he climbed into the sixth spot on the NBA.com rookie ladder, just behind Andrew Wiggins. There's been rumblings on social media that he'll soon start at guard for the Jazz if he keeps humming along at the same clip. There's even been, dare I say, talk about him winning the Rookie of the Year award. He might have curbed some of those notions with a poor performance in Atlanta, but a few bumps like that could be predicted. While he might not be nudging his way into the starting lineup or toppling Jabari Parker as the most promising rookie just yet, Exum is doing some things early this season that exceed preseason expectations.

5. Smarts
Exum already has a high basketball IQ. His vision coming off the pick-and-roll and ability to see the whole court are two of his many unteachable instincts that slingshotted him to the top of the draft. He's proving that he can learn things from head coach Quin Snyder and put them to work immediately. Snyder is rewarding him with time on the floor as his minutes have almost doubled since the opening game against the Rockets.

4. Minutes
Exum himself probably didn't expect to be playing as many minutes as he has. His playing time (nearly 20 minutes per game) is only going to accelerate his development as he continues to get used to the pressure of NBA defenses.

3. Speed
His quickness comes in handy to make up for his miscues, and he proved how fast he can adjust in a game against the Clippers. On one particular play, he was screened on a Jordan Farmar jumper, but was able to blow past it in the blink of an eye to get the block. On offense, when he turns it on, he can beat anybody to the rim. It's just a matter of gaining the confidence to do it and the decisiveness to know when.

2. Points
OK, so we've already established that he struggled in Atlanta. He only scored two points in a losing effort, but, according to basketball-reference.com, the points are coming when he's on the floor. He's only cracked double digits in two games, but he's good for 10.8 points per 36 minutes (the same as Trey Burke).

1. Efficiency
Exum has the second-highest player efficiency rating (11.95) among rookies right now—behind Orlando's Aaron Gordon (12.96). Add that to the to the fact that he leads all NBA point guards in percentage of assist opportunities converted and you've got a 19-year-old kid who's doing pretty well for his first nine games in the NBA.