Kanter should play more

Post #81 » by **zimpy27** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:55 am

Anthony did have 41 and it was at MSG against a much older team with a defined offense strategy (albeit learning it).

I'm not so down on the coaching. Their offense strategy is based on passing and the defense strategy is to just mitigate the other team. They don't have a defined pace but the passing is meant to slow it down and tire out the opponents on defense. In that way there was no advantage to play Kanter.

I guess people want the offense to revolve around Kanter but that's obviously not the offensive plan at the moment. Only other explanation is that he is injured in some way.

Post #82 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:34 pm

So Kanter is benched because of his defense, even though in the 12 minutes he played he defended just fine.

He gets benched because he supposedly (and let's face it, realistically) can't guard Melo. But Novak or Ingles can? And yet Melo blows up for 46 while Kanter doesn't guard him for even one possession. Snyder dropped the ball on that one.

freestyler34 · Post #83 » by **freestyler34** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:10 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:So Kanter is benched because of his defense, even though in the 12 minutes he played he defended just fine.

He gets benched because he supposedly (and let's face it, realistically) can't guard Melo. But Novak or Ingles can? And yet Melo blows up for 46 while Kanter doesn't guard him for even one possession. Snyder dropped the ball on that one.

Kanter usually getting benched when he plays well its nothing new, he was 3-4 FG 5 rb in 12 mins and +10, then he never gets in again, if he was really that bad at defense and hurting the team then he couldnt be +10.

If you really wanna showcase a player or want him to develop u must play him even to his mistakes yet Kanter always been benched even he plays well.

Dry Fly · Post #84 » by **Dry Fly** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:02 pm

I didn't get the substitutions either. I like Ingles but he can't defend Melo. Well actually nobody can defend Melo when the refs put diapers on him.

DiscoLives4ever · Post #85 » by **DiscoLives4ever** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:44 pm

Nobody was slowing Melo. Why not let Enes abuse him on the other end?

Daddy 801 · Post #86 » by **Daddy 801** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:08 pm

DiscoLives4ever wrote:Nobody was slowing Melo. Why not let Enes abuse him on the other end?

Why not abuse him by making him guard a bigger stronger player. If they play Kanter and Favors/Gobert at the same time he is forced to guard one of them. The only way to slow a guy like Melo down is to make him work and get tired on the defensive end. Thats not happening when he has to guard Ingles. MAybe you could argue him running around makes him tired, but at least make him get punished down low a little bit as well.

Daddy 801 · Post #87 » by **Daddy 801** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:04 pm

Kanter is 9 of 15 from 15-20 feet. I swear most of those have to be that baseline shot he seems to be almost automatic form.

Post #88 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:54 pm

Daddy 801 wrote:Kanter is 9 of 15 from 15-20 feet. I swear most of those have to be that baseline shot he seems to be almost automatic form.

Yep, that baseline shot in money.

http://on.nba.com/1senMUE

Post #89 » by **zimpy27** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:43 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:So Kanter is benched because of his defense, even though in the 12 minutes he played he defended just fine.

He gets benched because he supposedly (and let's face it, realistically) can't guard Melo. But Novak or Ingles can? And yet Melo blows up for 46 while Kanter doesn't guard him for even one possession. Snyder dropped the ball on that one.

Hayward was guarding Melo. Kanter had no one to guard. He would've been put on a SF like Acy. That's why he didn't play. And he can't rim protect so he couldn't play C, Gobert got more minutes than him.

I just wish Kanter could protect the rim, that he could block shots. There'd be no confusion, he'd be a monster.

Post #90 » by **zimpy27** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:49 pm

Daddy 801 wrote:
DiscoLives4ever wrote:Nobody was slowing Melo. Why not let Enes abuse him on the other end?

Why not abuse him by making him guard a bigger stronger player. If they play Kanter and Favors/Gobert at the same time he is forced to guard one of them. The only way to slow a guy like Melo down is to make him work and get tired on the defensive end. Thats not happening when he has to guard Ingles. MAybe you could argue him running around makes him tired, but at least make him get punished down low a little bit as well.

I agree but it's not in the offense strategy for the Jazz at the moment. Right now they are trying the passing game to get everyone involved. Maybe they change mid-season to focus on using Kanter as a weapon.

It's a young team, they have to forge an identity so it's best not to switch around strategies too much. They should try each strategy for at least 15 games. We may see this begin to pay off soon. If it doesn't pay off by Christmas then Jazz will switch it up and I predict using Kanter as an offensive weapon will be the next go.

Dozer! · Post #91 » by **Dozer!** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:02 pm

Glad that Kanter is finally playing well. I'm wondering why coach doesn't use him with that group that has been having trouble scoring in the 2nd quarters? Watching the game, and the line up we played to start the 2nd, I thought Kanter would of been a mismatch for NY. Think we scored 2 points in the 1st 5 minutes.

RaulLopez · Post #92 » by **RaulLopez** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:08 pm

I think Kanter is playing about the right amount of minutes, maybe a little to much. He is at 23.5 for the season. I think I would like him a little closer to 20 minutes a game. But I like his progress and I think Quin is doing a really good job with him and his minutes.

tleikheen · Post #93 » by **tleikheen** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:40 pm

Melo cant guard Kanter and obviously no one could guard Melo that was his size ,who here thinks Melo would have bodied up Kanter like he did Hayward and Booker.
This was just Snyder thinking he could play small ball better than New York,didnt happen because he couldnt contain Melo with Hayward or Booker .Kanter would have had a big game against Melo as well

erudite23 · Post #94 » by **erudite23** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:17 pm

I think it's pretty clear that Kanter doesn't "get it" yet. That's why Snyder keeps sitting him. It's evident largely in his defensive lapses, but also in the way the ball sticks at the wrong times and how he is obviously out of place at times during our sets.

I don't know if we can salvage anything out of him, but there's a very real possibility that he is just lacking in intangibles and will never figure it out.

Post #95 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:42 pm

The argument that Kanter didn't get minutes because he couldn't guard Melo falls apart when we see Melo score 46 points on everyone BUT Kanter (because he hardly played and didn't guard him). It's not like he could do worse. Novak got minutes and he isn't exactly a defnsive stopper either.

And we played the freakin' Knicks, who are seriously bad. I'm sure we could have found someone for Kanter to guard. Only one player who isn't Melo reached double-figures for the Knicks.

One the flip-side, Snyder chose some funky lineups that couldn't score and lost several leads. The Jazz should have won this game much more easily than they did.

tleikheen · Post #96 » by **tleikheen** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:47 pm

I think it's pretty clear that Kanter doesn't "get it" yet. That's why Snyder keeps sitting him. It's evident largely in his defensive lapses, but also in the way the ball sticks at the wrong times and how he is obviously out of place at times during our sets.

I don't know if we can salvage anything out of him, but there's a very real possibility that he is just lacking in intangibles and will never figure it out.

Lets see Kanter is shooting 54% from the field,#5 in the NBA for those who have attempted 100 shots (Favors 2nd) and is shooting 35% from 3pt line playing a new position.His PER is trending upwards as he settles into his new style of play.
That's not bad for someone who *doesn't get it*.....What I'm starting to see is Snyder is the one who is adjusting a little bit ,with both his bigs in the top 5 in the NBA in shooting percentage (100att).
I thought and it was said over and over that if Kanter can be a threat from the outside it would open up the inside a lot more for Favors to operate.Now Favors is #2 in the NBA in shooting % (100att).
Jazz dont need Trey Burkes lousy shooting ,they need a facilitator who can get the two Jazz bigs the ball who can score points .
The Jazz need more scoring ,theirs very few here who now doubt Kanter can deliver points when he plays.The Jazz need more rebounding ,another Kanter strength.Those are *tangibles which is more important than the* intangibles*

I don't know if we can salvage anything out of him,

Somehow I think a lot of NBA teams who see a 22 year old big man(6'11) who can get you points (above50%)and get you rebounds and shoot (3's) (above 35 %) is salvageable.

AK47MVP · Post #97 » by **AK47MVP** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:05 pm

Yeah Kanter got better at shooting and 3 pointer or two a game is icing on top, but he still can't defend and even his "great rebounding " sucks this season. 5 reb a game? That is terrible. JV yesterday outrebounded both Favors and Kanter combined. Korver did the same in Atlanta game.
Theleiken you were claiming Jazz will be top rebounding team in NBA, want to check where we rank as of now?:)

erudite23 · Post #98 » by **erudite23** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:01 pm

tleikheen wrote:
I think it's pretty clear that Kanter doesn't "get it" yet. That's why Snyder keeps sitting him. It's evident largely in his defensive lapses, but also in the way the ball sticks at the wrong times and how he is obviously out of place at times during our sets.

I don't know if we can salvage anything out of him, but there's a very real possibility that he is just lacking in intangibles and will never figure it out.

Lets see Kanter is shooting 54% from the field,#5 in the NBA for those who have attempted 100 shots (Favors 2nd) and is shooting 35% from 3pt line playing a new position.His PER is trending upwards as he settles into his new style of play.
That's not bad for someone who *doesn't get it*.....What I'm starting to see is Snyder is the one who is adjusting a little bit ,with both his bigs in the top 5 in the NBA in shooting percentage (100att).
I thought and it was said over and over that if Kanter can be a threat from the outside it would open up the inside a lot more for Favors to operate.Now Favors is #2 in the NBA in shooting % (100att).
Jazz dont need Trey Burkes lousy shooting ,they need a facilitator who can get the two Jazz bigs the ball who can score points .
The Jazz need more scoring ,theirs very few here who now doubt Kanter can deliver points when he plays.The Jazz need more rebounding ,another Kanter strength.Those are *tangibles which is more important than the* intangibles*
I don't know if we can salvage anything out of him,

Somehow I think a lot of NBA teams who see a 22 year old big man(6'11) who can get you points (above50%)and get you rebounds and shoot (3's) (above 35 %) is salvageable.

No one questions Kanter's skill level. He's got a deft shooting touch, some great post skills and a bullish frame capable of moving people around.

But he's stupid. He's in the wrong place probably half of the time. He doesn't understand--and might not ever be able to--what we are trying to accomplish from a scheme perspective. He misses assignments. And during a season in which the team mantra is to "play with a pass," he's about the only person on the team who is actually passing less.

I know he's your boy. But if you've been around this board for the last 3 years, you would know that no one has defended him more than me. There comes a time, though, when it's time to out up or move on. Now is his time, and I still see more bad than good. At the end of this season, someone is going to give him 10m+ per. And that can't be us unless he dramatically improves his understanding of the game.

I have no doubt that he will find a place in this league, but to me he needs a fresh start. I hope I'm wrong and he becomes the guy I always thought he could become. But I'm not holding my breath.

Post #99 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:40 pm

I think it is misleading to just look at Kanter's assist numbers. While it is true he isn't great at that department, he is moving the ball. The Jazz's offense would be so effective and fluid if he'd still be hanging onto the ball like in past seasons. Also, understanding schemes comes with time, and we have a new system in place.

Also, due to the suggestions in the "trade Burke" thread, I'm much more willing to shell out the money after looking at Josh Smith's stats and then remembering he's making 13.5M per year.

BudTugly · Post #100 » by **BudTugly** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:02 pm

erudite23 wrote:
I have no doubt that he will find a place in this league, but to me he needs a fresh start. I hope I'm wrong and he becomes the guy I always thought he could become. But I'm not holding my breath.

Pretty much where I've been at since about halfway through last season.

Kanter can be an impact player, but doesn't fit the two players the team has already committed to, Favors and Hayward. This team needs ball movement and transition, plus both of those guys score plenty.

The Knicks could be a great fit for him.