Official Utah Jazz Trade Ideas Thread

[Daddy 801]

I believe he did research. Which is also why I think he deflected the pick in Ty. Smart.


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[Inigo Montoya]

I believe he did research. Which is also why I think he deflected the pick in Ty. Smart.


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DL doesn't come out looking good or smart from that pick any way you spin it. How does it make it any better he listened to a lame-duck coach who he probably knew wasn't going to be there to coach the guy he pushed for drafting, because that guy fit his already bad system?

Or, are you saying DL did his research, knew Alfonso wasn't a good pick, but then went ahead and picked him anyway - knowingly hurting the Jazz in the process since he knew there were better alternatives, and he even gave up assets to get Alfonso - so that he could pin in on Corbin?

[reapaman]

If Lindsey did not do extensive research on a guy he traded up for that is absolutely pathetic. To me it's completely unreasonable to think that Lindsey, especially given his background, would not do extensive research on a player he traded up for. Dennis Lindsey does more extensive research players than just about anyone else in the NBA. That characteristic defines Lindsey as a GM. He does extensive research on hundreds of prospects each draft, yet somehow he doesn't research Trey Burke? That doesn't add up.

Ty Corbin helped make the decision, that's a fact, but the notion that Dennis Lindsey had no idea what he was doing or that he did not do extensive research on Trey Burke is just ridiculous. Ty Corbin does not have the power of Vivek.

The dude was on a Michigan team with many good options to pass to yet led the team with over 14 FGA per game ... That is ridiculous. Even Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Jason Kidd, Derrick Rose, John wall , ect ... never shot even close to that in much college even when adjusting for minutes played. Any other pg with that had that many shot attempts especially in his situation would've been called a shoot first pg yet Lindsey called him a pass first pg that could effectively facilitate a team in the NBA. How in the world did he not realize Burke was clearly a chucker. How in the blue hell did that pass their analytic test. I didn't even have to watch a game to know that and when I saw him, it was obvious why.

I'm sure they did some basic research on him but, a pg with 14 FGA per game especially on that Michigan team should have raised a huge red flag. I mean CJ McCollum was called a shoot first pg and in his last 2 season in college, he only averaged 2 more FGA than Burke with no one on his team to pass it to. Talk about a double standard.

[KqWIN]

If Lindsey did not do extensive research on a guy he traded up for that is absolutely pathetic. To me it's completely unreasonable to think that Lindsey, especially given his background, would not do extensive research on a player he traded up for. Dennis Lindsey does more extensive research players than just about anyone else in the NBA. That characteristic defines Lindsey as a GM. He does extensive research on hundreds of prospects each draft, yet somehow he doesn't research Trey Burke? That doesn't add up.

Ty Corbin helped make the decision, that's a fact, but the notion that Dennis Lindsey had no idea what he was doing or that he did not do extensive research on Trey Burke is just ridiculous. Ty Corbin does not have the power of Vivek.

The dude was on a Michigan team with many good options to pass to yet led the team with over 14 FGA per game ... That is ridiculous. Even Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Jason Kidd, Derrick Rose, John wall , ect ... never shot even close to that in much college even when adjusting for minutes played. Any other pg with that had that many shot attempts especially in his situation would've been called a shoot first pg yet Lindsey called him a pass first pg that could effectively facilitate a team in the NBA. How in the world did he not realize Burke was clearly a chucker. How in the blue hell did that pass their analytic test. I didn't even have to watch a game to know that and when I saw him, it was obvious why.

I'm sure they did some basic research on him but, a pg with 14 FGA per game especially on that Michigan team should have raised a huge red flag. I mean CJ McCollum was called a shoot first pg and in his last 2 season in college, he only averaged 2 more FGA than Burke with no one on his team to pass it to. Talk about a double standard.

Things gets so crazy in off-season...basketball can't come soon enough.

I hope you're not conceited enough to think that a well informed person can have a different opinion then yours. Well informed people disagree all the time. Fools can be lucky, experts can be unlucky.

Do you realize how ridiculous this claim sounds? You're claiming that a staff that does extensive research on over a hundred players each draft did not do extensive research and only had a basic understanding on the player they traded up for and drafted. The only reason the move was made is because a coach, who has a conflicting basketball philosophy, told him to do so? Ty Corbin tricked him into taking Trey Burke because Lindsey didn't know any better?

That's very hard for me to believe, I'll just leave it at that.

[reapaman]

Things gets so crazy in off-season...basketball can't come soon enough.

I hope you're not conceited enough to think that a well informed person can have a different opinion then yours. Well informed people disagree all the time. Fools can be lucky, experts can be unlucky.

Do you realize how ridiculous this claim sounds? You're claiming that a staff that does extensive research on over a hundred players each draft did not do extensive research and only had a basic understanding on the player they traded up for and drafted. The only reason the move was made is because a coach, who has a conflicting basketball philosophy, told him to do so? Ty Corbin tricked him into taking Trey Burke because Lindsey didn't know any better?

That's very hard for me to believe, I'll just leave it at that.

Your telling me that every team analyzes the top prospect in the draft who are constantly on tv, constantly getting scouted and talked about, ect ... the same way they do guys who are less well known? Your telling me that teams even care if they can't get a top prospect in for an interview or workout? Your telling me the general opinion from NBA scouts, external scouts/analyst the teams work with, other league officials, the media, ect ... don't effect their opinions of a player or how they approach the draft process at all? Teams get caught up in the hype all the time and its no difference then say someone getting caught up in the hype over the latest IPhone coming out and doing less research and putting less thought into it than they would if a lesser known company came out with a similar product. The dude aint god, he's human too.

BTW, I said the hype around Alf from the tournament and the general consensus of the quality of the draft and what this team "needs", heavily influenced their decision making ... not so much Corbin although Corbin shouldn't have even be gaven a voice unless they actually planned to extend him. Like I said, this has zero to do with my opinion. Forget about even watching one game of Alf ... Do you even realize how much 14 FGA per game is for a pg in college, especially on the team he was on. You tell me any player in his sophomore year of college that got even got 14 FGA per game per 40 that was ever called a pass first pg. Magic Johnson, Isisiah Thomas, Jason Kidd, John Stockton, Kevin Johnson, Tim Hardaway Derrick Rose, John Wall, Chris Paul, Rajon Rondo ect ... I can go on and on and none of them shot nearly as much as Burke did in College and many didn't have the level of talent on their teams like he did.

If Lindsey has said something like, I know he shoots more than we would like and I know any other pg with nearly 14 FGA would be called a shoot first pg and not a pass first pg, but I still believe we can adjust his game to make him a true facilitator then I could respect that. He instead said as is, Alf was a true facilitator with over 14 FGA per game.

[KqWIN]

Your telling me that every team analyzes the top prospect in the draft who are constantly on tv, constantly getting scouted and talked about, ect ... the same way they do guys who are less well known?

Yes, I am telling you that, but I think it's the exact opposite of what you are insinuating. They analyze high profile guys more thoroughly because they have more info on them. There were pro scouts at every game Trey Burke played. He went to all the summer camps where he competed against the best talent in the nation. The analytics are better. Everything about his evaluation process is more. I don't think that they just watch sportscenter or watch a draftexpress video and call it a day.

Your telling me that teams even care if they can't get a top prospect in for an interview or workout?

They do care, but it does not prevent them from drafting a player. I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but Lindsey has drafted just as many players who have not worked out for the Jazz as ones that have. They really cared when Rudy came in but they did not care when Dante publicly refused to come to Utah.

Your telling me the general opinion from NBA scouts, external scouts/analyst the teams work with, other league officials, the media, ect ... don't effect their opinions of a player or how they approach the draft process at all?

I'm not, which is why I think the claim that Dennis Lindsey did not have a good opinion is ridiculous. If anyone were to have a good opinion on Trey Burke it would be the guy who traded for him. If all of these other professionals developed an opinion of Trey Burke isn't it possible that Lindsey developed the same opinion? I'm still not seeing why you're convinced that Lindsey did not have a strong opinion on him and just let others do it for him.

Teams get caught up in the hype all the time and its no difference then say someone getting caught up in the hype over the latest IPhone coming out and doing less research and putting less thought into it than they would if a lesser known company came out with a similar product. The dude aint god, he's human too.

I've said it over and over. Dennis Lindsey made a very bad decision. I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm disagreeing with the notion that he had no idea what he was doing, winged on draft night, and traded/drafted a player he only had a basic understanding on and did not do extensive research. I'm not trying to make Lindsey look good, quite the opposite actually. Daddy 801 was trying to pin this on Ty, it was Lindsey's decision and Lindsey's mistake.

BTW, I said the hype around Alf from the tournament and the general consensus of the quality of the draft and what this team "needs", heavily influenced their decision making ... not so much Corbin although Corbin shouldn't have even be gaven a voice unless they actually planned to extend him. Like I said, this has zero to do with my opinion. Forget about even watching one game of Alf ... Do you even realize how much 14 FGA per game is for a pg in college, especially on the team he was on. You tell me any player in his sophomore year of college that got even got 14 FGA per game per 40 that was ever called a pass first pg. Magic Johnson, Isisiah Thomas, Jason Kidd, John Stockton, Kevin Johnson, Tim Hardaway Derrick Rose, John Wall, Chris Paul, Rajon Rondo ect ... I can go on and on and none of them shot nearly as much as Burke did in College and many didn't have the level of talent on their teams like he did.

I now realize that you are not saying that Corbin made this decision, but that is what the initial discussion is about. As far as your FGA attempt per game analysis, I'm sorry but I cannot take that seriously. I'd like to think the an NBA scouting process is much more sophisticated than that. If the draft process is how you describe it, you deserve a job my friend. Lot's of RealGMers would deserve jobs. Trey Burke was one hell of a college player. He took a lot of shots, made a lot of shots, and picked up a lot of assists. That's why he was the player of the year. Clearly it hasn't translated.

If Lindsey has said something like, I know he shoots more than we would like and I know any other pg with nearly 14 FGA would be called a shoot first pg and not a pass first pg, but I still believe we can adjust his game to make him a true facilitator then I could respect that. He instead said as is, Alf was a true facilitator with over 14 FGA per game.

You keep saying that Lindsey called him a pass first PG, but I don't remember anything like that. Do you have a link or a direct quote? From my memory, he was referred to as a pick and roll PG. Speaking of quotes, here is one from Lindsey regarding Trey's style of play and how he fits.

"I think in some programs the 'pure point (guard)' thing is, frankly, overstated. You just need a good player," he said. "But here, with this system, with this market, they want their points to lead, to orchestrate, to organize, to pass, to create pace (and) to be able to make shots."

Right here Lindsey is saying that he knows that Trey is not a traditional but that they did not want a traditional PG. I'm not sure what he said about him being a pass first PG, but this is pretty close to what you were asking for.

However the decision was made, I think we can both agree that the Jazz are spending too many resources on him now.

[reapaman]

You keep saying that Lindsey called him a pass first PG, but I don't remember anything like that. Do you have a link or a direct quote? From my memory, he was referred to as a pick and roll PG. Speaking of quotes, here is one from Lindsey regarding Trey's style of play and how he fits.

"I think in some programs the 'pure point (guard)' thing is, frankly, overstated. You just need a good player," he said. "But here, with this system, with this market, they want their points to lead, to orchestrate, to organize, to pass, to create pace (and) to be able to make shots."

Right here Lindsey is saying that he knows that Trey is not a traditional but that they did not want a traditional PG. I'm not sure what he said about him being a pass first PG, but this is pretty close to what you were asking for.

However the decision was made, I think we can both agree that the Jazz are spending too many resources on him now.

Ummm... re-read that quote again. He was saying that in other programs you don't need a pure point but in Utah you do which he goes on to describe what they need the pg to do in Utah. I mean to lead, orchestrate, organize, pass, create pace and make shots is the definition of a pure or pass first pg. And here is a small bit from the Salt Lake Tribune that further defines the quote you put up:

"Lindsey described both Burke and Neto as "pure point guards." "If there's a market where that's very important," he said, "it's here.""

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/jazz/56529456-87/jazz-burke-guard-param.html.csp

There you have it. I can't find the video of him saying it but, I think you get the point.

If it was like you said in which he didn't think Trey was a pure point and mabey thought he could be an effective game manager then that's one thing but he said pure point which never made any sense given how much he shot the ball in college. And I was just using the 14 FGA per thing as something that would normally draw a red flag when discussing any other pg and I still don't think you realize how outrageous that many FGA is for a pg and in his situation. Plus whose system is Lindsey talking about where he says those qualities are needed for ... Corbin's? Why is what fits a Lame duck coach's system even in consideration?

We can drop it for now but I refuse to believe the Jazz were thinking clearly when picking Burke. I mean them picking Exum only a year later should say it all. Its like when people were questioning at first why the 76ers would draft Okafor when they had Embiid and Noel, only to find out later that Embiid career could be over before it started. The Jazz quickly found out that Burke was not who they thought he was and picked Exum to make up for that. If they knew he was a non-traditional pg then they shouldn't have been surprised at how he performed in his rookie season.

[BudTugly]

Maybe Lindsey blew the pooch on Burke but in the same draft he also got a highly motivated Gobert for a team that for all intents and purposes did not appear to need a big man.

IMO Gobert already looks like a borderline HOF player even if he doesn't get any better. Anytime you are fortunate enough to land one of them whatever else you did that year becomes moot. And Lindsey pulled this guy pretty late.

Just putting in since Reapa seems to be on a Lindsey hunt. Take a step back and look a the broader picture. This organization has improved significantly since Greg stepped back and Dennis was hired. Now, maybe KOC should take some credit since he's still the real man on top but still, it's better.

IMO the sport franchise business like any other is built upon taking risks and winning. If it's trading for a guy that has low value for whatever reason or drafting whoever you draft you're taking a risk. IMO The Jazz have been making better calculated decisions since Lindsey arrived.

[pickIBL]

Kevin seraphin at the right price could be interesting. Having wiz property satoransky come in with treyd going out would also make pride swallowing sense

[goober]

If the Exum injury is serious, I want us to go hard after Darren Collison

[Patsfan1081]

What do you guys think about Bradley+Olynyk for Burks?

that is highway robbery, Burks is not even worth Bradley, why would the C's do that?

This is one of those trades where it's just hard to tell if it's equal value or not. Jazz fans that have watched Burks his whole career know that this dude is probably a 18+ ppg scorer at some point, maybe even this year. That injury just derailed his progression a bit. Bradley and Olynyk are both very important role players (lockdown defender, stretch big), but they don't have the ceiling that Burks has. So again, it's hard to say if this an unfair, or a fair trade at this point.

The difference is no team is giving you a first for Burks, yet both Bradley and Olynk would fetch one. This is horribly sided to the Jazz, Bradley made an all defensive and shoots 36 % lifetime from three, Burks shot 36% overall his soph year. Not to mention that both of them are just a year older than Burks. Hood is the player you hope Burks, I think everyone has seen enough of Trey to know he's never going to be a starter or average close to 18 a game.

[aim2please]

The difference is no team is giving you a first for Burks, yet both Bradley and Olynk would fetch one. This is horribly sided to the Jazz, Bradley made an all defensive and shoots 36 % lifetime from three, Burks shot 36% overall his soph year. Not to mention that both of them are just a year older than Burks. Hood is the player you hope Burks, I think everyone has seen enough of Trey to know he's never going to be a starter or average close to 18 a game.

Proposal was for Alec Burks, not Trey Burke.

[Seabass777]

Hey guys sorry about the Dante Exum injury.

As a replacement would you guys be interested in a trade for Mario Chalmers?

[vandenberg41]

I don't think he fits jazz culture.

It's best for the Jazz to stand pat, we have 3 PGs signed still. There is nothing on the line this season, thus we have no need to panic and try to replace Exum for one season... Jazz aren't winning anything significant this year, nor were they before the injury.


It's the most detrimental injury for the Jazz bc Exum is the piece of the core that has the most developing to do, and this injury sets him even further back than the rest of the main core assembled at this time. He needed minutes more than anything, very sad.

I would like to see Neto get his minutes, his game is oriented in the same way as Exum. I have no interest in Trey Burke, but unless he shows out early in the season. He has no trade value. At this point he's a one year stop gap until Exum is healthy. Which is why i think Neto needs to get these available minutes, backup PG is his job next year and going forward.

[Winglish]

Hey guys sorry about the Dante Exum injury.

As a replacement would you guys be interested in a trade for Mario Chalmers?

Maybe yes for me.

[stitches]

Hey guys sorry about the Dante Exum injury.

As a replacement would you guys be interested in a trade for Mario Chalmers?

I think there is a chance DL explores that option, but I doubt he would be giving up assets to do it. If Miami wants to do it as a salary dump, we might take him.

[Inigo Montoya]

Chalmers actually makes sense for the Jazz. All we need of him is to play solid defense and hit open 3s, which he can do. Hayward and Alec will take most of the the facilitating duties.

[KqWIN]

There it is, like for like.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/DJJazzyJody/status/629397342458744832[/tweet]

[Inigo Montoya]

There it is, like for like.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/DJJazzyJody/status/629397342458744832[/tweet]

Seriously? That's the Jazz's plan for a stopgap PG?

[stitches]

There it is, like for like.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/DJJazzyJody/status/629397342458744832[/tweet]

Seriously? That's the Jazz's plan for a stopgap PG?

If that is what they are thinking I think they are not looking at him as stop-gap starter but rather as a back up/depth/versatility at the PG spot. He's a lengthy defender. In some respects he would be what Dante was last year - spotting up guard in offense(over 50% of his shots were from 3), while guarding opponent's PGs and allowing us to switch everything in D.