Dante Exum as the starter

[OakleyCap]

During the last two games Dante Exum has started and we have won both games. (@ Mil 101-99, vs BKN 108-73)

Here are his stats and the team stats during those two games.

14.0 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 4.5 apg on 52% FG and 56% 3FG.

Team stats: 104.5 ppg, 42.5 rpg, 24.0 apg, 86.0 ppg allowed,
Season averages: 95.8 (23rd in league), 42.4 rpg (18th in league), 20.4 apg (25th in league), 98.5 ppg allowed (10th in league)

Obviously it's an extremely small sample size but over the last two games we have played extremely well with him at the point.

[babyjax13]

There will be ups and downs, it's nice to see us doing well with him starting, but there will be times when he struggles as well. The role change seems to have helped Burke as well.

[JazzMatt13]

Since we have time to test, it is good to see who is worth keeping. Exum in his high lighting starts, and Burke's amazing production off bench, have shown Jazz reasons to keep both them.

We won the two games from 3 point shooting. I said that this season we need to run the fast past and be a 3 point shooting team with more possessions per game. We were passing the ball too much, and forcing ourselves into to many passes. We need these guys running and scoring.

Yeah our bigs didn't really produce in this set up tonight, but if our back court plus Hayward, can be the fast pace 3 point shooting like seen on Hawks and Warriors, I think Jazz will have the back court needed desperately. Imagine Teague and Korver, with Hayward, Kanter and Favors, we would be going to playoffs.

[Dry Fly]

Dante has looked great. Seems the move has given him mojo.

[Viktor Vaughn]

we have to keep in mind of course that this was against Milwaukee and Brooklyn. And we barely beat Milwaukee.

Not trying to knock on Dante or anything. I think Trey is a good addition to the formerly scoreless bench. I think Dante tends to work best, for whatever reason, with as many ballhandlers as possible (him, Ingles, Hayward). Dante has looked especially nice though not only hitting the threes, but I feel like in these past two games he's been more aggressive and confident in going to the rim. Even if he doesn't follow through with a shot, and he just passes it out, at least he's driving. Before he'd seem to be content with passing the ball as soon as possible, and then camping the corner 3.

I also like Dante's better defence coming out against the better guards.

It just seems like a better fit for both players. Hopefully it continues to work out well. In Trey's recent post-game interview (against Brooklyn) he didn't seem super fond of the bench role. Just seemed really uncomfortable and hesitant in his answer when it got brought up. Hopefully he realises that he either has to work hit butt off to earn the starter role back, or the way to win for the team, not win for himself, is by being that 15ppg bench player.

[MHSL82]

Milwaukee Bucks Numbers:

Dante Only: 47-47 (24 M) 0
Trey Only: 34-25 (13 M) +9
Both on Court: 20-27 (11 M) -7

Dante: -7
Burke: +2

Brooklyn Nets Numbers:

Dante Only: 44-32 (20 M) +12
Trey Only: 40-32 (17 M) +8
Both on Court: 19-7 (9 M) +12
Neither: 5-2 (2 M) +3

Dante: +20
Burke: +20

Total Numbers:

Dante Only: 91-79 (44 M) +12
Trey Only: 74-57 (30 M) +17
Both on Court: 39-34 (20 M) +5
Neither: 5-2 (2 M) +3

Dante: +13
Burke: +22

[MHSL82]

Milwaukee Bucks Numbers:

Dante Only: 47-47 (24 M) 0
Trey Only: 34-25 (13 M) +9
Both on Court: 20-27 (11 M) -7

Dante: -7
Burke: +2

Brooklyn Nets Numbers:

Dante Only: 44-32 (20 M) +12
Trey Only: 40-32 (17 M) +8
Both on Court: 19-7 (9 M) +12
Neither: 5-2 (2 M) +3

Dante: +20
Burke: +20

Total Numbers:

Dante Only: 91-79 (44 M) +12
Trey Only: 74-57 (30 M) +17
Both on Court: 39-34 (20 M) +5
Neither: 5-2 (2 M) +3

Dante: +13
Burke: +22

From the Indiana Pacers game where Trey had strep throat:

Dante: 65-65 (29:42 M) 0 (-1)
Off-Court: 36-40 (18:18 M) -4

Box Score says -1 for Exum, so there must be some overlap in my numbers. Don't want to go through it now. So, take -1 FWIW.

[dautjazz]

Was pretty awful on offense last night, hopefully it was just a bad night, and he bounces back.

[MHSL82]

Has anyone seen any stats on the starting lineup's scoring pre and post-lineup change? How about bench scoring? That was the impetus for the change. I can look at just Trey's or Dante's +/- but they play together for strectches. It's hard to tell how much it has improved us. We can't look directly at Exum and say that there's a net gain at the PG scoring because he's not scoring - even less than he was from the bench and less than Burke is scoring now. Burke is scoring more, but the rest of the bench is scoring less? Net gain?

[idajazz]

I don't even care what the numbers say, This is about the future and if Exum is the pg of the future the sooner he gets started the better.

[MHSL82]

I don't even care what the numbers say, This is about the future and if Exum is the pg of the future the sooner he gets started the better.

True, just wondering. I know the move was long-term, but since the coach offered short term (this season) reasoning, I wanted to know how it's going. There's an adjustment period, of course.

[Jazz_Man_86]

Dante is awfull. He is so raw.

[dautjazz]

Dante is awfull. He is so raw.

I don't think that's the case, I think he's a highly skilled player, but he lacks confidence in his game and is afraid of making mistakes. I don't know if competing against a player that was drafted just the year before puts a lot of pressure on him too. Either way, I felt he started the year great, but he might of hit the rookie wall. Remember, he made a transition similar to making the jump from high school to the NBA. He's raw, but I wouldn't call him awful, that sounds more hopeless that what his situation really is.

[BarneyGumble]

Dante is awfull. He is so raw.

I don't think that's the case, I think he's a highly skilled player, but he lacks confidence in his game and is afraid of making mistakes. I don't know if competing against a player that was drafted just the year before puts a lot of pressure on him too. Either way, I felt he started the year great, but he might of hit the rookie wall. Remember, he made a transition similar to making the jump from high school to the NBA. He's raw, but I wouldn't call him awful, that sounds more hopeless that what his situation really is.

In the last 5 games he is averaging 24 minutes, 1 point, 2 assists, and 9.5% from the field. That isnt awful....its beyond awful. There isnt a word for how bad that is.

Lets tell it like it is. Maybe he will become a good player....but he's not one right now.

[dautjazz]

I don't even care what the numbers say, This is about the future and if Exum is the pg of the future the sooner he gets started the better.

True. I think if he would of started the season as a starter he would of fared well, though I feel one needs to earn it, Either way, like I said in my earlier post, he seems to have hit the wall. I remember him being gassed in the beginning of the season, and now he's gotten into better game shape, but the season is probably becoming exhausting right now, especially since he played for the Australian national team this summer, then the summer league too. He's basically got a month and a half or so more of wear on him than most other players right now, and that's a lot on a rookie. Either way, a good thing about this move is that Dante is getting the coach's trust t be a starter, and Burke is doing much better off the bench. This season was huge for Exum, he got his feet wet with NBA competition, got into NBA game shape, which he was FAR away from during the summer league. It's a baby steps, for a baby. He'll turn 20 next summer, and he's got long way to go, but I have confidence that he will be a good PG. You can't teach the physical gifts this kid has, he's a good defender, and while a little streaky now, he shows signs of being a good shooter.

[dautjazz]

Dante is awfull. He is so raw.

I don't think that's the case, I think he's a highly skilled player, but he lacks confidence in his game and is afraid of making mistakes. I don't know if competing against a player that was drafted just the year before puts a lot of pressure on him too. Either way, I felt he started the year great, but he might of hit the rookie wall. Remember, he made a transition similar to making the jump from high school to the NBA. He's raw, but I wouldn't call him awful, that sounds more hopeless that what his situation really is.

In the last 5 games he is averaging 24 minutes, 1 point, 2 assists, and 0.095% from the field. That isnt awful....its beyond awful. There isnt a word for how bad that is.

Lets tell it like it is. Maybe he will become a good player....but he's not one right now.

That's a 21 shot sample, it's not very big. He clearly has hit the rookie wall, or is having some confidence issues. He was shooting .382 behind the arc and .750 from behind the stripe in December. I can pick and choose stats too. He's a 19yr rookie, who didn't play in the NCAA or a real professional league overseas, this is a gigantic leap, essentially from high school/amateur basketball in Australia, to the NBA, he's been handed the starting reigns just 2 weeks ago. He's had great games this season, and if you watched him play earlier this season, you should remember how good he looked. I believe like Hayward, he needs to pump some iron, gained a few pounds, and come back stronger and more confident. Hayward needs to help him as he struggled with the same issues. Hayward was a 6'8" SG, but wasn't very aggressive, it was confidence issues, but now look at how much better he's gotten.

[BarneyGumble]

That's a 21 shot sample, it's not very big. He clearly has hit the rookie wall, or is having some confidence issues. He was shooting .382 behind the arc and .750 from behind the stripe in December. I can pick and choose stats too. He's a 19yr rookie, who didn't play in the NCAA or a real professional league overseas, this is a gigantic leap, essentially from high school/amateur basketball in Australia, to the NBA, he's been handed the starting reigns just 2 weeks ago. He's had great games this season, and if you watched him play earlier this season, you should remember how good he looked. I believe like Hayward, he needs to pump some iron, gained a few pounds, and come back stronger and more confident. Hayward needs to help him as he struggled with the same issues. Hayward was a 6'8" SG, but wasn't very aggressive, it was confidence issues, but now look at how much better he's gotten.

I dont disagree with any of this. He can become a good player I think...but right now he is not one. Yes those are all good reasons why he isnt playing well, but he isnt playing well.

[dautjazz]

That's a 21 shot sample, it's not very big. He clearly has hit the rookie wall, or is having some confidence issues. He was shooting .382 behind the arc and .750 from behind the stripe in December. I can pick and choose stats too. He's a 19yr rookie, who didn't play in the NCAA or a real professional league overseas, this is a gigantic leap, essentially from high school/amateur basketball in Australia, to the NBA, he's been handed the starting reigns just 2 weeks ago. He's had great games this season, and if you watched him play earlier this season, you should remember how good he looked. I believe like Hayward, he needs to pump some iron, gained a few pounds, and come back stronger and more confident. Hayward needs to help him as he struggled with the same issues. Hayward was a 6'8" SG, but wasn't very aggressive, it was confidence issues, but now look at how much better he's gotten.

I dont disagree with any of this. He can become a good player I think...but right now he is not one. Yes those are all good reasons why he isnt playing well, but he isnt playing well.

I agree he's not a very good player, but I think he's a lot better RIGHT now than what he's showing. There is no reason that he can blow by a player, or on a night where he shoots well, taking just 5-7 shots, why not take more if the team needs it? He just doesn't assert himself very much. Not to compare myself skill wise, but as I've gotten older, I've grown more confident in playing in the post and have learned to do a lot of things better, not so much by getting more skillful, but being more confident, and taking chances. Exum is a very good player, and he needs to say, screw it, my team wants me to succeed and be more aggressive, and if we lose, we're not hurting our chances of making the playoffs, and I'll learn from experience. I'm just saying he can be a pretty decent player if he trusted himself right now, but it doesn't happen very often that a young PG just steps in and is very good and/or highly confident from day one.

[JazzMatt13]

I think this experiment needs to end. Starting doesn't mean he is getting the minutes. I say let Burke finish off season as starter, cause Burke isnt' getting better by facing bench players. Exum isn't getting better cause he can't handle starters yet.

I remember when Burke got thrown to the wolves, and trial by fire, and he was reason we won our games. Exum now having his trial, and you can see he doesn't have the maturity level of Burke, nor the shooting capability.

[MHSL82]

That's a 21 shot sample, it's not very big. He clearly has hit the rookie wall, or is having some confidence issues. He was shooting .382 behind the arc and .750 from behind the stripe in December. I can pick and choose stats too. He's a 19yr rookie, who didn't play in the NCAA or a real professional league overseas, this is a gigantic leap, essentially from high school/amateur basketball in Australia, to the NBA, he's been handed the starting reigns just 2 weeks ago. He's had great games this season, and if you watched him play earlier this season, you should remember how good he looked. I believe like Hayward, he needs to pump some iron, gained a few pounds, and come back stronger and more confident. Hayward needs to help him as he struggled with the same issues. Hayward was a 6'8" SG, but wasn't very aggressive, it was confidence issues, but now look at how much better he's gotten.

I dont disagree with any of this. He can become a good player I think...but right now he is not one. Yes those are all good reasons why he isnt playing well, but he isnt playing well.

I agree he's not a very good player, but I think he's a lot better RIGHT now than what he's showing. There is no reason that he can blow by a player, or on a night where he shoots well, taking just 5-7 shots, why not take more if the team needs it? He just doesn't assert himself very much. Not to compare myself skill wise, but as I've gotten older, I've grown more confident in playing in the post and have learned to do a lot of things better, not so much by getting more skillful, but being more confident, and taking chances. Exum is a very good player, and he needs to say, screw it, my team wants me to succeed and be more aggressive, and if we lose, we're not hurting our chances of making the playoffs, and I'll learn from experience. I'm just saying he can be a pretty decent player if he trusted himself right now, but it doesn't happen very often that a young PG just steps in and is very good and/or highly confident from day one.

I hope he understands what you mean when coach tells him to be confident and aggressive. The past two or so games, he started out by shooting twice early - but they were three point shots and those missed. Does he feel, "there, I was aggressive" and get discouraged that he missed? Or does he realize that shooting a three is not aggressive.

Well, duh, right? But he doesn't like shooting, not even the fast break last night where he held up to get a trailer but later realized it was him and couldn't get it. So even shooting the ball right out of the gates might seem to him to be being aggressive.