Top 25 Jazz players: #20

[StocktonShorts]

truck

this is getting boring. he shudda been in right after Green IMO, who both shuuda been in before Russell. But whatever. the best player for NOJ after Pistol. Truck had one more all star year a few years later for another team, but he didn't put up close to the same stats he did for the Jazz. No other player, not Boozer, not Eaton, not Malone, not any other player has had more rebounds in a season for the Jazz than Truck did. He is our only 1000+/season rebounder.

We have the top points guy up. We have the top assists guy up. We have the top blocks guy up. We have the top steals guy up. It is time we have the top rebounds guy up. He is an All-star after all.

My issue with Robinson is that he played 5419 minutes total for the Jazz, and 3638 of them were in that 77-78 season. That's an astonishing 44.4 minutes/game! (In fact he led the NBA in minutes played that season with over 300 minutes more than the player with the second most.)

His rebound rate that year was actually a decent but unspectacular 17.0% (good for 15th in the league) but he played a ton of minutes. That same season Kelley put up a rebound rate of 17.2% (11th in the league) but played just 25.8 minutes.

For comparison's sake, Gobert's rebound rate this past year was 20.7%. A rebound rate of 17.0% would've been good for 20th best in the NBA this season.

[Joao Saraiva]

truck

this is getting boring. he shudda been in right after Green IMO, who both shuuda been in before Russell. But whatever. the best player for NOJ after Pistol. Truck had one more all star year a few years later for another team, but he didn't put up close to the same stats he did for the Jazz. No other player, not Boozer, not Eaton, not Malone, not any other player has had more rebounds in a season for the Jazz than Truck did. He is our only 1000+/season rebounder.

We have the top points guy up. We have the top assists guy up. We have the top blocks guy up. We have the top steals guy up. It is time we have the top rebounds guy up. He is an All-star after all.

My issue with Robinson is that he played 5419 minutes total for the Jazz, and 3638 of them were in that 77-78 season. That's an astonishing 44.4 minutes/game! (In fact he led the NBA in minutes played that season with over 300 minutes more than the player with the second most.)

His rebound rate that year was actually a decent but unspectacular 17.0% (good for 15th in the league) but he played a ton of minutes. That same season Kelley put up a rebound rate of 17.2% (11th in the league) but played just 25.8 minutes.

For comparison's sake, Gobert's rebound rate this past year was 20.7%. A rebound rate of 17.0% would've been good for 20th best in the NBA this season.

Great argument StocktonShorts.

Truck played 1 full season for us! I can't put him ahead of guys who got us 8 years of consistent role playing like Ostertag!

And what's all that about Truck's rebounding? I care about impact, not raw stats. Truck didn't produce good ORTG/DRTG relation, VORP, PER, ts%, didn't make us a winning team (not even into the playoffs)... I know these are stats too, but I feel they're good indicators of the lack of impact those raw numbers in rebounding made.

I couldn't care less if he made the all-star game! Hornacek didn't make any ASG while playing for us but he produced at very high rate here! He had team success, high peak, played his role to perfection and a good longevity! Making the ASG or not is completely irrelevant to me. Accodales mean nothing (for me, of course), it's the actual level of performance that does.

[MHSL82]

Kelley for me.

[Joao Saraiva]

Threads closes tonight guys. We'll have our top 20 complete!

So far:
Kelley (4 votes) - Joao Saraiva, StocktonShorts, JazzMatt13, MHSL82
Ostertag (3 votes) - DanteSexum, idajazz, Gobert (what's up with our current players voting for Ostertag? )
Truck (1 vote) - MeestR

Ostertag has 3 votes against the 4 of Kelley, so if you guys wish to make a case for him now would be a good time. JazzMatt13 got me voting for Kelley, but if a great argument goes Ostertag's way I might think about it again.

[JazzMatt13]

Yeah I don't plan on voting for Truck. To me Kelley deserves it most. Don't get me wrong, Truck is definitely a top 30 or 40 guy, but were pretty tight on top 25.

[Winglish]

I vote for Greg Ostertag. I think you could walk Rich Kelley out onto the Jazz floor and there would not be ten fans who know who he is.

[MHSL82]

In the event of a tie, change my vote to Ostertag. Winglish's post and the fact that JS had to be convinced has me voting against Kelley. Besides, Ostertag gave me his autograph when I was a kid.

[Joao Saraiva]

Yes with Winglish's vote it would be a tie.

After MHSL82 changed his vote, Ostertag wins #20.

Thread closed. I'll open #21.

[StocktonShorts]

I vote for Greg Ostertag. I think you could walk Rich Kelley out onto the Jazz floor and there would not be ten fans who know who he is.

I once watched a bunch of kids walk right past George Gervin to get Georghe Muresan's autograph at the Rocky Mountain Revue.

(In other words, generational shifts and common fan ignorance isn't a great argument in my book)

[JazzMatt13]

I vote for Greg Ostertag. I think you could walk Rich Kelley out onto the Jazz floor and there would not be ten fans who know who he is.

I once watched a bunch of kids walk right past George Gervin to get Georghe Muresan's autograph at the Rocky Mountain Revue.

(In other words, generational shifts and common fan ignorance isn't a great argument in my book)

If it was current Kelley all older and what not, probably right, hard to tell. I mean you have to be like 40 years old to have even seen him play. As long as he had his mustache I think it would be easy to spot him.

I remember at RMR my friends and me were sitting next to all these guys, and dude was like you want an autograph or something, and I was like sure, and he was like man do you even know who I am...I was like no, he was dude I am Stacy King.

I didn't watch basketball during MJ's first 3peat. My first championship I watched was the Rockets 2 timing. I think it was in the 1997 when I got King's autograph. I actually have my ticket covered in autographs, half I don't even know who they are from.

[Winglish]

I vote for Greg Ostertag. I think you could walk Rich Kelley out onto the Jazz floor and there would not be ten fans who know who he is.

I once watched a bunch of kids walk right past George Gervin to get Georghe Muresan's autograph at the Rocky Mountain Revue.

(In other words, generational shifts and common fan ignorance isn't a great argument in my book)

Once Bryon Russell got into the top 15 I realized that these threads are as much about fond memories as they are about actual basketball performance in a Jazz uniform. It became easier to vote for the likeableTag over the far more consistent Kelley.

[StocktonShorts]

I vote for Greg Ostertag. I think you could walk Rich Kelley out onto the Jazz floor and there would not be ten fans who know who he is.

I once watched a bunch of kids walk right past George Gervin to get Georghe Muresan's autograph at the Rocky Mountain Revue.

(In other words, generational shifts and common fan ignorance isn't a great argument in my book)

Once Bryon Russell got into the top 15 I realized that these threads are as much about fond memories as they are about actual basketball performance in a Jazz uniform. It became easier to vote for the likeableTag over the far more consistent Kelley.

I can't speak for everyone, but my vote for Russell wasn't sympathetic; it was based on numbers and team success. I'm not disputing that Ostertag has a valid case to be where he's at -- for many of the same reasons as Russell -- but I do think your argument of fan recognition is off-base. In fact, I think if people were voting based on emotional memories, Ostertag wouldn't make the top 25.

[Joao Saraiva]

My vote for Russell was also not sympathetic. I voted cause I feel he should be on the list. Same thing with Boozer. He's not a loved guy for us, but there is no way I could deny his impact.

[MHSL82]

My vote for Russell was also not sympathetic. I voted cause I feel he should be on the list. Same thing with Boozer. He's not a loved guy for us, but there is no way I could deny his impact.

I'm guilty of contributing to this perception, as I have commented on voting for favorites, but I have to clarify that this was only used as a tie-breaker between two evenly judged players amongst those everyone else was voting for, though I know I spearheaded the vote for unknown Stockton.