The case for Deron

dautjazz · Post #41 » by **dautjazz** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:01 pm

Brooklyn was fighting for the playoffs and Deron over the last 5 goes 8.4ppg 8.2apg 6rpg .6bpg .4spg in 33.8mpg, shooting .263 .158 .818. Rebounds were great, assists were very good, and blocks were good for a PG, but other than that wtf. I really dislike this guy after the who Sloan thing, and he's stunk BAD in Brooklyn. I can't for the life me of me understand what you like in him Bud.

BudTugly · Post #42 » by **BudTugly** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:36 pm

dautjazz wrote:Brooklyn was fighting for the playoffs and Deron over the last 5 goes 8.4ppg 8.2apg 6rpg .6bpg .4spg in 33.8mpg, shooting .263 .158 .818. Rebounds were great, assists were very good, and blocks were good for a PG, but other than that wtf. I really dislike this guy after the who Sloan thing, and he's stunk BAD in Brooklyn. I can't for the life me of me understand what you like in him Bud.

Because he's a totally different player over there than he was before. I've been watching as many of their games as I can the last month or so. He doesn't look hurt at all. I believe having watched Deron for a long time that he's just unhappy there and that's why his game sucks.

Therefore he could be a lot better in a different place, in a better situation. Plus if I'm wrong it's only 2 years and doesn't keep the team from retaining anybody aside from the guys moved for him. Burks and Burke, probably Booker.

sipclip · Post #43 » by **sipclip** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:10 pm

I would never give up any assets like Burke and Burks for Williams. Also this team is already winning so I don't see the need to try and speed things up. If Brooklyn wants to dump Williams then they need to send quality assets back with him like Plumlee and Bogdanovic.

sipclip · Post #44 » by **sipclip** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:13 pm

JazzMatt13 wrote:I think Dwill could revive his career, I mean it wasn't that long ago he was rated higher than CP3, I mean Dwill was in WCF's his 2nd season, I don't even think CP3 has even sniffed WCF.

Soon to be 31yr olds with chronic foot injuries do not revive there careers.

Denizfeital · Post #45 » by **Denizfeital** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 4:13 pm

I hope he never uses a Utah Jazz jersey again. I hate what he did and how he handled himself while Sloan was our coach.

Regards,

Deniz

BudTugly · Post #46 » by **BudTugly** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 4:19 pm

Ankles. Not feet. Also the wrist. And there are related unknowns like conditioning and nutrition that would need to be addressed. What's his relationship with painkillers.

I'm a little surprised there isn't more pushback on Burks, a lot of people thought he had star talent before he got hurt. Maybe a 3 way trade works better to maximize his value.

JazzyPhinz · Post #47 » by **JazzyPhinz** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 4:40 pm

I would take the gamble. Its only for 2 yrs and we can eat that contract.
I just think Deron doesn't like the spotlight which could explain Peirce's comments. Its like Favors preferring the low key city without the crazy media.

Gives Exum 2 yrs to grow and can take over once Derons contract expires.
Bring him home.

idajazz · Post #48 » by **idajazz** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 4:44 pm

Not at 22 mil. Plus he was a moody little Bi@@h last time around, what makes anybody think that has changed.
This young team has really come together since the Kancer trade, no need to muff it all up.

Lava Rock Kid · Post #49 » by **Lava Rock Kid** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:28 pm

A lot of people think he is bad at Brooklyn because he is not happy.

What if he is not happy here, what if he pouts and mails it in. Then we traded talent (burk and burkes) for 22 million of wasted space.

I am not willing to give up on alec burkes yet. And I think Trey can be as good of back up next season and Deron would be, at a much cheaper deal.

BarneyGumble · Post #50 » by **BarneyGumble** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:47 pm

I was a HUGE Deron Williams fan....but there's a reason we traded this guy and that reason has become obvious to the rest of the league by now.

I'd take him back if he were bought out and we could get him cheap....but I wouldnt give up anything to get him.

JazzyPhinz · Post #51 » by **JazzyPhinz** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:14 pm

BarneyGumble wrote:I was a HUGE Deron Williams fan....but there's a reason we traded this guy and that reason has become obvious to the rest of the league by now.

I'd take him back if he were bought out and we could get him cheap....but I wouldnt give up anything to get him.

I dont think we'd be giving up too much.
We all want to get rid of Trey. Burks might be expendable with the rise of Hood. (I much prefer Hood as our starting 2 with his shooting and size)

So essentially we get rid of 2 players we dont really need and get a vet PG who may turn things around back home.
We dont need Trey to be a backup with Deron on board.

Are we really starting Exum next yr for the whole season? He's just not ready yet. But he might be right as Derons contract ends.
For the next 2 years we can go get our playoff experience and continue to grow.

sipclip · Post #52 » by **sipclip** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:45 pm

JazzyPhinz wrote:
BarneyGumble wrote:I was a HUGE Deron Williams fan....but there's a reason we traded this guy and that reason has become obvious to the rest of the league by now.

I'd take him back if he were bought out and we could get him cheap....but I wouldnt give up anything to get him.

I dont think we'd be giving up too much.
We all want to get rid of Trey. Burks might be expendable with the rise of Hood. (I much prefer Hood as our starting 2 with his shooting and size)

So essentially we get rid of 2 players we dont really need and get a vet PG who may turn things around back home.
We dont need Trey to be a backup with Deron on board.

Are we really starting Exum next yr for the whole season? He's just not ready yet. But he might be right as Derons contract ends.
For the next 2 years we can go get our playoff experience and continue to grow.

We aren't giving up 2 players that we don't really need. Burks is going to be a big contributor for us next year and gives us a really good 3 man wing rotation.

As far as Trey goes he is becoming painfully underrated on this board. The guy is a solid backup pg and he will get better.

BarneyGumble · Post #53 » by **BarneyGumble** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:28 pm

JazzyPhinz wrote:
BarneyGumble wrote:I was a HUGE Deron Williams fan....but there's a reason we traded this guy and that reason has become obvious to the rest of the league by now.

I'd take him back if he were bought out and we could get him cheap....but I wouldnt give up anything to get him.

I dont think we'd be giving up too much.
We all want to get rid of Trey. Burks might be expendable with the rise of Hood. (I much prefer Hood as our starting 2 with his shooting and size)

So essentially we get rid of 2 players we dont really need and get a vet PG who may turn things around back home.
We dont need Trey to be a backup with Deron on board.

Are we really starting Exum next yr for the whole season? He's just not ready yet. But he might be right as Derons contract ends.
For the next 2 years we can go get our playoff experience and continue to grow.

Im not a big fan of either Burks or Burke but even with Burks' bad contract Deron's is worse. So yes, we give up things to take him and his giant contract back. I'm not a fan of that. Besides, there is no guarantee Deron magically lands in SLC and becomes his 2008 self again. He might just ACTUALLY be the malcontent pay-check player that he IS by now....and I dont feel like messing with what we've got going to gamble on a bad apple like Deron Williams. The Nets did it and it has set their franchise back years.

BudTugly · Post #54 » by **BudTugly** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:46 pm

Lava Rock Kid wrote:A lot of people think he is bad at Brooklyn because he is not happy.

What if he is not happy here, what if he pouts and mails it in. Then we traded talent (burk and burkes) for 22 million of wasted space.

I am not willing to give up on alec burkes yet. And I think Trey can be as good of back up next season and Deron would be, at a much cheaper deal.

It's not about giving up on them. It's about pursuing an opportunity. I think Trey can grow into a pretty good player and I also like Alec. But those are the 2 that have to go for sure if we bring back Deron.

I got no problem with people not seeing DWill as an opportunity though, this would be a ballsy move no question.

sipclip · Post #55 » by **sipclip** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:08 pm

BarneyGumble wrote:
JazzyPhinz wrote:
BarneyGumble wrote:I was a HUGE Deron Williams fan....but there's a reason we traded this guy and that reason has become obvious to the rest of the league by now.

I'd take him back if he were bought out and we could get him cheap....but I wouldnt give up anything to get him.

I dont think we'd be giving up too much.
We all want to get rid of Trey. Burks might be expendable with the rise of Hood. (I much prefer Hood as our starting 2 with his shooting and size)

So essentially we get rid of 2 players we dont really need and get a vet PG who may turn things around back home.
We dont need Trey to be a backup with Deron on board.

Are we really starting Exum next yr for the whole season? He's just not ready yet. But he might be right as Derons contract ends.
For the next 2 years we can go get our playoff experience and continue to grow.

Im not a big fan of either Burks or Burke but even with Burks' bad contract Deron's is worse. So yes, we give up things to take him and his giant contract back. I'm not a fan of that. Besides, there is no guarantee Deron magically lands in SLC and becomes his 2008 self again. He might just ACTUALLY be the malcontent pay-check player that he IS by now....and I dont feel like messing with what we've got going to gamble on a bad apple like Deron Williams. The Nets did it and it has set their franchise back years.

What makes Burks contract bad? Last year he averaged 14pts, 3.3rbs and 2.7 asts on 45.7%fg and 35%3pt in 28 minutes. That puts him at 17.9pts, 4.2rbs and 3.5asts per 36 minutes. That type of production is well worth the 10.5 mil a year for his next contract. He was also only 22 during that season and I fully expect him to be a better player next season than he was last year.

Post #56 » by **StocktonShorts** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:22 pm

I just don't think the Jazz are in a position where they have to make this kind of gamble.

dautjazz · Post #57 » by **dautjazz** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:12 pm

StocktonShorts wrote:I just don't think the Jazz are in a position where they have to make this kind of gamble.

Agreed, Exum averaged 6.4ppg 4.4apg in 29.3mpg in April (8 games). He showed a lot of improvement on offense down the stretch of the season. He became much better at playmaking, hence assists increase, and even became a little more aggressive. For the most part I like his shooting form, he looks like he will be a good shooter, and he's had some very good shooting games, ofcourse it's always under 10 shots. Defensively if he doesn't improve, he's still a good defender, and I think he can be an elite defender at his position in a couple of years. I think as soon as next year we can see a big improvement. I don't think there is a PG out there that can take us from about 50 win team which I think we'll be, to a title contender. I rather continue to give Exum 24+ mpg so he can continue to develop at a good pace.

Joao Saraiva · Post #58 » by **Joao Saraiva** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:23 pm

Alec can't go. He is a good player, just not lucky since he got injured this year.

Money is also a problem. We can't pay that amount for D-Will!

I say this shouldn't happen. Nets are stuck with Deron since he has a very bad contract.

Joao Saraiva · Post #59 » by **Joao Saraiva** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:27 pm

So far 46% voted yes/hell yes or yes but with diferent pieces. I'm a bit surprised.

I voted no. Hell no felt a bit strong, since OP made some good arguments. However it wasn't enough to change my mind. I don't see what diferent guys we could trade, and D-Will's salary really concerns me.

If he was getting half of that I would say we could try some sort of trade. I wouldn't let Alec go, I have high hopes for him.

Post #60 » by **StocktonShorts** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 6:27 pm

dautjazz wrote:
StocktonShorts wrote:I just don't think the Jazz are in a position where they have to make this kind of gamble.

I don't think there is a PG out there that can take us from about 50 win team which I think we'll be, to a title contender.

Certainly not an available one, but you put Chris Paul on this team and they're contending for a top-3 seed in the West.

Burke, Burks, non-guaranteed contracts for Deron Williams