Trade Ideas Thread (2015-2016 season)

goober · Post #41 » by **goober** » Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:23 am

stitches wrote:Am I the only one who gets enraged by most Jazz trades proposed in the Trades and Transactions forum?

The T&T forum is a bubbling cauldron of low ball offers and biased fans that overvalue their own players. That's why I don't tread there as much anymore.

sipclip · Post #42 » by **sipclip** » Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:48 pm

Daddy 801 wrote:What's people's opinion of Taj Gibson? Bulls have lots of bigs. Jazz could possibly pursue him if Book continues to struggle. Would it be a good move? Haven't seen him this year. But, he is a great defensive player and could be the PF sub when Rudy goes out and Favs slides to the C spot. Just a thought.

I like Taj but he is going to turn 31 next season and he will be 32 when he becomes a free agent and that is a no go age for him. I'm not willing to give up the 1st rd pick for a player that doesn't fit the age of our young core and will cost a bunch to re-sign.

Daddy 801 · Post #43 » by **Daddy 801** » Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:19 pm

sipclip wrote:
Daddy 801 wrote:What's people's opinion of Taj Gibson? Bulls have lots of bigs. Jazz could possibly pursue him if Book continues to struggle. Would it be a good move? Haven't seen him this year. But, he is a great defensive player and could be the PF sub when Rudy goes out and Favs slides to the C spot. Just a thought.

I like Taj but he is going to turn 31 next season and he will be 32 when he becomes a free agent and that is a no go age for him. I'm not willing to give up the 1st rd pick for a player that doesn't fit the age of our young core and will cost a bunch to re-sign.

Don't resign him. Lyles should be good enough in two years to take those minutes. Not saying signing Taj is the best answer to correct third big rotation. I'm just saying I don't personally see why getting him for next couple seasons means we resign him.

sipclip · Post #44 » by **sipclip** » Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:56 pm

Daddy 801 wrote:
sipclip wrote:
Daddy 801 wrote:What's people's opinion of Taj Gibson? Bulls have lots of bigs. Jazz could possibly pursue him if Book continues to struggle. Would it be a good move? Haven't seen him this year. But, he is a great defensive player and could be the PF sub when Rudy goes out and Favs slides to the C spot. Just a thought.

I like Taj but he is going to turn 31 next season and he will be 32 when he becomes a free agent and that is a no go age for him. I'm not willing to give up the 1st rd pick for a player that doesn't fit the age of our young core and will cost a bunch to re-sign.

Don't resign him. Lyles should be good enough in two years to take those minutes. Not saying signing Taj is the best answer to correct third big rotation. I'm just saying I don't personally see why getting him for next couple seasons means we resign him.

If you don't re-sign him then it means you wasted an asset for nothing and to top it off you have stunted Lyles growth because with Taj around he doesn't get minutes unless we are beat up with injuries. That is fine if we are competing for a championship but for a young team that is still rebuilding it doesn't make sense. I know some of you want to jump the gun and consider the rebuild over but I don't feel that way and I don't believe management feels that way. This upcoming offseason is when I believe the rebuild will be consider done and we will actually use our capspace as well as combining some assets to put on the finishing touches.

Daddy 801 · Post #45 » by **Daddy 801** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:06 am

sipclip wrote:
Daddy 801 wrote:
sipclip wrote:
I like Taj but he is going to turn 31 next season and he will be 32 when he becomes a free agent and that is a no go age for him. I'm not willing to give up the 1st rd pick for a player that doesn't fit the age of our young core and will cost a bunch to re-sign.

Don't resign him. Lyles should be good enough in two years to take those minutes. Not saying signing Taj is the best answer to correct third big rotation. I'm just saying I don't personally see why getting him for next couple seasons means we resign him.

If you don't re-sign him then it means you wasted an asset for nothing and to top it off you have stunted Lyles growth because with Taj around he doesn't get minutes unless we are beat up with injuries. That is fine if we are competing for a championship but for a young team that is still rebuilding it doesn't make sense. I know some of you want to jump the gun and consider the rebuild over but I don't feel that way and I don't believe management feels that way. This upcoming offseason is when I believe the rebuild will be consider done and we will actually use our capspace as well as combining some assets to put on the finishing touches.

That's a legitimate reason why not to do the trade.

Post #46 » by **FJS** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:42 pm

I would trade for Cody Zeller. He is not playing and he would be a upgrade vs lyles or withey. He is still 25.

sipclip · Post #47 » by **sipclip** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:03 pm

FJS wrote:I would trade for Cody Zeller. He is not playing and he would be a upgrade vs lyles or withey. He is still 25.

You are mixing up Cody Zeller with Tyler Zeller.

JazzMatt13 · Post #48 » by **JazzMatt13** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:01 pm

FJS wrote:I would trade for Cody Zeller. He is not playing and he would be a upgrade vs lyles or withey. He is still 25.

I'm OK selling some assets with some of our projects (Withey/Pliess), to get some guys to come off bench, who are equal to or younger than Favor's draft year.

Thunderbear · Post #49 » by **Thunderbear** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:20 am

My trade proposal is Utah trades Lyles, Pleiss plus OKC pick and GS pick to GS for Harrison Barnes.

Post #50 » by **StocktonShorts** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:25 am

Thunderbear wrote:My trade proposal is Utah trades Lyles, Pleiss plus OKC pick and GS pick to GS for Harrison Barnes.

Let me preface this by saying I'm not sure there's a more overrated player in the NBA than Harrison Barnes.

Ok.

Having said that:

I don't think GS is so desperate to trade him that they'd take that package. And if they do trade him for a package like you've proposed here -- which is arguably better than what the Jazz got for Kanter -- it's only because they've reached a Kanter-like impasse with him and don't want to pay him the max deal he's seeking. But I just can't see an undefeated team who is the odds-on favorite to repeat as NBA champs trading someone who is playing 30/minutes a night. You don't fix what isn't broken. You don't change horses mid-stream etc. etc.

But fine, let's say they agree to it. Where does Barnes find minutes on this Jazz team? Do you want to pay him max money to come off the bench behind Hayward? Is he taking Hood's minutes?

I just don't see motivation or fit in this deal.

sipclip · Post #51 » by **sipclip** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:39 am

StocktonShorts wrote:
Thunderbear wrote:My trade proposal is Utah trades Lyles, Pleiss plus OKC pick and GS pick to GS for Harrison Barnes.

Let me preface this by saying I'm not sure there's a more overrated player in the NBA than Harrison Barnes.

Ok.

Having said that:

I don't think GS is so desperate to trade him that they'd take that package. And if they do trade him for a package like you've proposed here -- which is arguably better than what the Jazz got for Kanter -- it's only because they've reached a Kanter-like impasse with him and don't want to pay him the max deal he's seeking. But I just can't see an undefeated team who is the odds-on favorite to repeat as NBA champs trading someone who is playing 30/minutes a night. You don't fix what isn't broken. You don't change horses mid-stream etc. etc.

But fine, let's say they agree to it. Where does Barnes find minutes on this Jazz team? Do you want to pay him max money to come off the bench behind Hayward? Is he taking Hood's minutes?

I just don't see motivation or fit in this deal.

There isn't anything arguably about that offer being better than we got for Kanter. That clearly blows away what we got for Kanter and I would never trade that much for Barnes. I really like Barnes as a player but with Hayward and Hood at the sf position he isn't a major priority. He will also get a huge contract offer this offseason.

Thunderbear · Post #52 » by **Thunderbear** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:00 am

Barnes is able to to play and guard stretch fours. He plays stretch the four in the GS small ball line up. Lyles is years away from meaningful production. With Barnes stepping in and taking over the roles Lyles and Ingles we will solidfy the Jazz as a playoff team this season. He is 23, and has learned how to play on the most successful team league. I would bet he would have a big production spike like Kanter did going to OKC, the only difference is he is a good defender also. He would likely be our best perimeter defender until Exum is healthy again while being able to create his shot on offense.

goober · Post #53 » by **goober** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:27 pm

I don't want to trade draft picks for a guy that's expecting a max and is not worth it. Barnes really doesn't add any value to our team, when it comes to wings, we have an abundance of them.

Post #54 » by **StocktonShorts** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:01 pm

Thunderbear wrote:Barnes is able to to play and guard stretch fours.

Ok fine, but the Jazz are playing big. So you're taking minutes away from Favors, who has been the best player for the Jazz so far. Or you're taking minutes away from Gobert and playing Favors at the five?

Thunderbear wrote: He plays stretch the four in the GS small ball line up. Lyles is years away from meaningful production.

So why would Golden State want to trade Barnes away?

I'm not trying to nitpick here, but this seems like a really, really bad trade fit for both teams.

Post #55 » by **StocktonShorts** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:08 pm

sipclip wrote:There isn't anything arguably about that offer being better than we got for Kanter. That clearly blows away what we got for Kanter and I would never trade that much for Barnes.

While you and I disagree on the value of those draft picks (as established previously), you're right. Whenever I read a trade proposed by a fan on this board my immediate assumption is that the trade is imbalanced toward the poster's team.

But when looked at in detail, this is a better deal than what the Jazz got for Kanter if you're a fan of Lyles (as I am):

Lyles >>> Jerett
OKC pick == OKC pick
Pleiß == Pleiß
GS 1st > Detroit 2nd

Daddy 801 · Post #56 » by **Daddy 801** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:36 pm

You want Barnes. Offer him a Max in offseason. No reason to trade for him. If Golden State is going to max him they aren't going to trade him.

KqWIN · Post #57 » by **KqWIN** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 6:12 pm

Nate Duncan is pushing the idea of Thad Young to Utah, presumably for a first round pick. What do you guys think? Athletic, smart player who can't shoot. 4/$50 deal.

sipclip · Post #58 » by **sipclip** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 7:10 pm

KqWIN wrote:Nate Duncan is pushing the idea of Thad Young to Utah, presumably for a first round pick. What do you guys think? Athletic, smart player who can't shoot. 4/$50 deal.

No thanks. I would much rather keep the draft pick and use that capspace for this offseason. Durant is obviously the dream but I would love to snag Terrance Jones. I would even be willing to give up a 1st for Jones during the season so that we have his rights.

KqWIN · Post #59 » by **KqWIN** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 8:56 pm

sipclip wrote:
KqWIN wrote:Nate Duncan is pushing the idea of Thad Young to Utah, presumably for a first round pick. What do you guys think? Athletic, smart player who can't shoot. 4/$50 deal.

No thanks. I would much rather keep the draft pick and use that capspace for this offseason. Durant is obviously the dream but I would love to snag Terrance Jones. I would even be willing to give up a 1st for Jones during the season so that we have his rights.

Durant?

Jones is a nice player. He's not the smartest player, but he's got talent for sure. I'm just not sure if I'd be willing to pay him. It's hard to know exactly what his deal will be, but it's going to be a ton. He's always injured so it's very risky.

SoCalJazzFan · Post #60 » by **SoCalJazzFan** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:34 pm

It will be interesting to see what the Jazz do over the course of this season and the offseason (although it is hard to think about that right now where this season is only a few weeks old).

Warning, the following is a bit of a wet blanket.

Future salary commitments will have to be taken into account. This is the Jazz salary for the next few years http://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/UTA.html

Over the next two seasons the Jazz are in great shape financially. However, in 2017, seven players will be making $36M, and four of those players will be on their last year of their rookie contract, including Exum and Hood. Rudy and GH will be up for new contracts, and could make $20M-$30M/yr each. It won't be hard to hit $100M with the additional five players to round out the team, and the next season Favors, Exum and Hood will be pricey. The Jazz will probably need to choose between players by then (e.g. which of Burks, Hood and Hayward do the Jazz keep).

So, I would think that the Jazz would be interested, or perhaps even limited, to smaller contracts or larger contracts of shorter length (as in one or two years) unless they give up a player with a sizeable salary as part of a deal.

The Jazz have decided to grow/develop from within. Thankfully, it is working so far. Hopefully, it will continue.