The season is over thread

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mudsak
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Re: The season is over thread 

Post#41 » by mudsak » Wed May 10, 2017 5:39 pm

dr0welf wrote:Hayward - My thinking is he is going to sign a 1 + 1 salary. By what I understand of this CBA is it benefits him more after he has been in the league for 8 years. So I believe he will sign a 1 year contract with us and then we look at going full beast mode after next year on a Max contract. I could be wrong here...


Interesting... I never thought about the aspect of Hayward aiming for a 1+1 deal. It's a gamble on his part, and if he takes that kind of angle then I think it's much more likely that he considers his options on another team...something like Houston who is a bit ahead of us right now. I'm positive the Jazz would prefer to sign him to the 5 year max, and know they have 2 All-Star level players to plan their future around....that's ideal.

I do think it makes a lot of sense from a long-term stand point for Hayward to just go full max 5 year deal with the Jazz (which only the Jazz can offer that 5th year). It's long term security, and he knows that he can focus 100% on his game...not being distracted by the business aspects surrounding it. I would assume he's slightly excited about the opportunity to be a free agent this offseason, but I'm sure it's bound to be a bit of a stressful experience as well. He did mention in his exit interview that he didn't want the decision to linger very long... he just wants to make the decision, and get it done with so he can get back to focusing on his life, family, and working on his game.

Honestly... I think that Hayward has just as difficult as decisions to make this summer as our front office does.
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Re: The season is over thread 

Post#42 » by mudsak » Wed May 10, 2017 6:33 pm

SoCalJazzFan wrote:I think that Hayward stays. I think that he is a 1B player who will be making 1A money, and thus arguably overpaid, but hopefully continues to improve to that 1A status, and markets like Utah have to overpay to keep their best players.


Hmm... I don't know. I think Hayward is a legit All-Star player. I see what you're saying...he's just a hair below maybe a Jimmy Butler, and MAYBE Paul George (honestly...he played better than George most of the season). I think Hayward's a legitimate max player. He's constantly improved his play, consistency, and he's been pretty durable overall. I was really impressed by his performance in the Playoffs. Take away the sick game and he averaged nearly 27pts a game. He played with a ton of heart, hustled, and played with extreme confidence. In the Playoffs opposing defenses honed in on him, and he actually played at a higher level than his regular season-self.

It's a short list of SF's in the league who are better than him... Lebron, Durant, Kawhi, Butler... I'd argue that Hayward is the 5th best player at his position in the NBA right now. Many might argue PG13 is better, and they might (barely) be right...but I give it to Hayward on character alone. Hayward has been nothing but a class act during his entire time on the Jazz...even when the Jazz completely sucked, and they had arguably the worst coach in the NBA. By contrast PG13 has been borderline toxic to his team this entire season. They're struggling (but still made the playoffs), and he's been calling his team out all year, while also playing like garbage for the entire first half of the season.

SoCalJazzFan wrote:It would be a risk for anyone to take on Favors or Burks, given their propensity for injury.


I really struggle to see any way Burks is in a Jazz uniform this coming season. He's the most logical piece that we need to move...and we probably aim to do it in a salary dump situation. We need to clear space to resign Hayward, Hill (or another decent PG)... and definitely Ingles. From a salary standpoint I'd say Withey, and Mack are not offered to return to the team. Burks' salary is pretty low, so even with the injuries I don't think he'll be that difficult to move.

SoCalJazzFan wrote:I doubt that the Jazz can afford Hill, or would be willing to pay him what would be necessary at this stage of his career, which is a bummer since he is such a great fit. Do the Jazz trade another pick for a vet PG on the last year or two of their contract again who can either run the show or be a good back up? Not sure who that would be off hand.


I've been mostly on the side that says the Jazz have no real way to keep Hill...BUT... that was earlier in the season when Hill's value was realistically higher. The amount of games he missed, his age, and basically missing the entire 2nd round playoffs series probably makes a dent in his value this offseason. I believe there's a possibility that Hill struggles to find a deal that's even as good as the extension that the Jazz already offered him mid-season. Unless some (Please Use More Appropriate Word) team throws an unreasonable deal at him, I think we've got good chances to see him back. There's also a chance that the Jazz take a look at other options here (Lowry), but I think our chances at retaining Hill are pretty high...and for decent value.

SoCalJazzFan wrote:For cap purposes, I'm guessing Diaw is gone.

You might be right, but for the money I think Diaw is still a great value. If they can make it work, I think they try to keep him in the lineup. He's unbelievably valuable for us this season considering the injuries & Lyles turning out to be half-retarded.

SoCalJazzFan wrote:I'd be surprised if the Jazz traded Joe Johnson, but he would be good trade bait in the right deal.


There's no way they move Joe. He's been such a valuable player for us in so many ways. He's as good as it gets from the 3, he's super versatile from a line-up standpoint, and the guy is exactly the type of personality/character they want... a class act, and true professional.
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Re: The season is over thread 

Post#43 » by MTJazzv3 » Wed May 10, 2017 9:17 pm

Regarding mudsak's excellent post above, I agree that Hill will come cheaper due to this relatively "off" season but of course he has to test the waters and I imagine his short list is the Jazz and San Antonio. SA scares me for obvious reasons and now including we may have seen the last of Tony Parker (though Mills is having a nice playoff run) and Manu's $14 MM will likely come off the books. Also disagree Burks automatically is out the door. If he gets healthy he is on a dirt cheap contract and the Jazz need help at the wing.
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Re: The season is over thread 

Post#44 » by SoCalJazzFan » Wed May 10, 2017 9:39 pm

^Mudsak

I do think that Hayward was a legit All Star this season. However, I see him as a lower tier All Star (1B), and not a Superstar (1A), although he will probably get paid that Superstar money. I think that to a certain extent, his numbers were inflated given all of the injuries that the Jazz had to deal with this year and taking on an extra scoring burden. Still, Utah has to try to sign him. Players like Hayward aren't available to Utah too often.

With respect to Burks, what do you think the Jazz could get for him? He will cost about $10M next year, and I understand the salary dump approach, but if he can come back from injury he could be a better SG than anything the Jazz could replace him with (e.g. look at Bazemore, Crabbe, etc. who signed new deals last year). Also, who is willing to take the risk on him for two years and over $22M in a salary dump without us giving up something or taking trash back? Much easier to ascertain the situation next year and dump an expiring, IMO. If he comes back to form, he'll be worth the $11M/yr.

I think that we need to keep in mind this offseason that Exum and Hood's potential new contracts are on the not too distant horizon, which is going to impact what the Jazz can commit to salary/contract length-wise this summer. Next summer they'll have a better idea of many of their players (Favors, Exum, Hood, perhaps Burks and Lyles) and potentially have some cap space to go along with more flexibility in contract lengths and a better focused direction. I don't think that anything is much in focus right now with respect to the future of anyone outside of Gobert and Hayward if he resigns.
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Re: The season is over thread 

Post#45 » by pickIBL » Wed May 10, 2017 10:30 pm

Hayward had an opportunity to say he wanted to come back. He may stay in utah, but as of right now he appears undecided
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Re: The season is over thread 

Post#46 » by KqWIN » Wed May 10, 2017 11:07 pm

SoCalJazzFan wrote:^Mudsak

I do think that Hayward was a legit All Star this season. However, I see him as a lower tier All Star (1B), and not a Superstar (1A), although he will probably get paid that Superstar money. I think that to a certain extent, his numbers were inflated given all of the injuries that the Jazz had to deal with this year and taking on an extra scoring burden. Still, Utah has to try to sign him. Players like Hayward aren't available to Utah too often.


The problem with calling Hayward overpaid is that 1C (whatever that is) would get paid the same as him. He will get paid the same as players who are better than him, but worse players than him also demand max contracts. Superstar money is the same thing as All Star money.
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Re: The season is over thread 

Post#47 » by millslapper » Fri May 12, 2017 2:06 am

Compared to the Rockets ending today, Jazz did better although they got swept. Better fans, better team, better outlook.

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