Current depth chart?

[BudTugly]

Favors is way better than a backup.

He's a 30 minute big, if he's healthy. But he's not as good as Gobert. Backup doesn't really mean much here.

LMAO if that dude is 100 you play him as much as possible.

[Luigi]

Favors is way better than a backup.

He's a 30 minute big, if he's healthy. But he's not as good as Gobert. Backup doesn't really mean much here.

LMAO if that dude is 100 you play him as much as possible.

I don't think he can crack 32 minutes. Few bigs do.

[BudTugly]

He's a 30 minute big, if he's healthy. But he's not as good as Gobert. Backup doesn't really mean much here.

LMAO if that dude is 100 you play him as much as possible.

I don't think he can crack 32 minutes. Few bigs do.

That's possible but has nothing to do with having a lesser role rather than a stupid league wide health fad.

[Luigi]

LMAO if that dude is 100 you play him as much as possible.

I don't think he can crack 32 minutes. Few bigs do.

That's possible but has nothing to do with having a lesser role rather than a stupid league wide health fad.

I think most bigs can't keep up with the faster game now. Favors is a center. If he's healthy and in good condition, I think he merits 30-32 minutes a game. That's his maximum role.

Do you think that since I am saying he should play the backup center minutes that I am giving him a lesser role?

[BudTugly]

I don't think he can crack 32 minutes. Few bigs do.

That's possible but has nothing to do with having a lesser role rather than a stupid league wide health fad.

I think most bigs can't keep up with the faster game now. Favors is a center. If he's healthy and in good condition, I think he merits 30-32 minutes a game. That's his maximum role.

Do you think that since I am saying he should play the backup center minutes that I am giving him a lesser role?

Yea sure sounds that way.

If both are healthy Favs and Rudy will play almost identical minutes.

I don't want to get caught up in positions. Those dudes can play with each other or anchor or play with a different big because both of them can move so well.

Either of those guys could play with Boogie or Porzingis for example.

Point being the flexibility is there but DF is going to be the 2nd or 3rd best player on the team. He's not a role player.

[Luigi]

That's possible but has nothing to do with having a lesser role rather than a stupid league wide health fad.

I think most bigs can't keep up with the faster game now. Favors is a center. If he's healthy and in good condition, I think he merits 30-32 minutes a game. That's his maximum role.

Do you think that since I am saying he should play the backup center minutes that I am giving him a lesser role?

Yea sure sounds that way.

If both are healthy Favs and Rudy will play almost identical minutes.

I don't want to get caught up in positions. Those dudes can play with each other or anchor or play with a different big because both of them can move so well.

Either of those guys could play with Boogie or Porzingis for example.

Point being the flexibility is there but DF is going to be the 2nd or 3rd best player on the team. He's not a role player.

Two things. 1) Gobert is better than Favors. 2) Would you rather have room at the 4 to play the rest of our guys, or would you rather have room at the 5 to play Bradley?

My rotation gets Favors his 28-30 minutes a night. Why in the world do you think that is diminishing his role?

Besides those two things, Favors is better as a 5 than a 4 anyway. Hes older now, and heavier. He plays well defending the rim as it is. Why would you want to save those backup 5 minutes for the worst players on our roster?

[BudTugly]

I'd like to know what it I'm saying that you disagree with.

IDGAF what position you call it, the guy is going to play a major role if he is healthy and on the roster.

Maybe you aren't claiming his main role will be to back up Rudy, that's what I find a little silly.

[Luigi]

I'd like to know what it I'm saying that you disagree with.

IDGAF what position you call it, the guy is going to play a major role if he is healthy and on the roster.

Maybe you aren't claiming his main role will be to back up Rudy, that's what I find a little silly.

You are saying I am giving Favors a lesser role in the rotation, no? I disagree with that.

Unless the role is lesser than Gobert, because it certainly will and should be less than Gobert's role. But playing backup center fore 16 minutes a night, and power forward for 10-14 minutes a night is not a lesser role for Favors than he has ever been able to play.

The point is the minimize the time they are both on the floor at the same time, and maximize their minutes, while also maximizing the bench players minutes according to their abilities. If you put Favors at starting 4, and never play him at 5 minutes, you'll end up giving 16 minutes a night to our backup 5 instead of giving those to a backup 4. That seems like a mistake to me.

Do you think 30 minutes a night is not a major role for Favors? Because it seems like you think I am not giving him a major role when I assign him 16 minutes at center, and 10-14 at power forward.

[BudTugly]

I'd like to know what it I'm saying that you disagree with.

IDGAF what position you call it, the guy is going to play a major role if he is healthy and on the roster.

Maybe you aren't claiming his main role will be to back up Rudy, that's what I find a little silly.

You are saying I am giving Favors a lesser role in the rotation, no? I disagree with that.

Unless the role is lesser than Gobert, because it certainly will and should be less than Gobert's role. But playing backup center fore 16 minutes a night, and power forward for 10-14 minutes a night is not a lesser role for Favors than he has ever been able to play.

The point is the minimize the time they are both on the floor at the same time, and maximize their minutes, while also maximizing the bench players minutes according to their abilities. If you put Favors at starting 4, and never play him at 5 minutes, you'll end up giving 16 minutes a night to our backup 5 instead of giving those to a backup 4. That seems like a mistake to me.

Do you think 30 minutes a night is not a major role for Favors? Because it seems like you think I am not giving him a major role when I assign him 16 minutes at center, and 10-14 at power forward.

I think both of those guys should be playing 36 minutes or so per game. Some players can deal with fatigue better than others but when you are that good the pressure is on to stay on the court. I do not believe in shortened minutes. If the guy cannot deal with it then OK but besides that play em.

Also while it is true that DF does provide amazing insurance and backup to the best defensive C in the game he will also be a major part of our scoring effort. This team has no other post player besides Johnson. Favors is going to be leaned upon to create scoring and foul opponents out. He is elite finishing PnR and has developed a nice low post game. IMO if Snyder wants to maximize the roster he will somehow whisper Favors into a transition player and also use him in that post play we all know so well.

This is my point. Favors and Gobert are different players. We are not talking about a couple of dudes who do the same thing, just one is better at it. They have crossover but both of them do things the other cannot, or do it a lot better.

I think DF, if he remains on the roster, will have a lot of post plays run to him as he will be facing very weak opposition a lot of the time. That dude will crush small ball forwards under the hoop. He has established a post game and is already an explosive athlete, now he has a setup man who can pass him into an advantage.

Gobert does not have anywhere near the offensive skill set Favors has now. On the bright side though look at DF youtubes from his first 2 years he didn't have anything. Maybe Rudy can do the same thing.

[Luigi]

I agree that they have different strengths. But the most important one they both bring is interior defense. Favors isn't Karl on offense. He has some moves, but he's not gonna carry an offense.

Even if they did both play 36 minutes a night, none of this would change my point: you still play Favors at the center as much as possible.

If you want Favors to be a transition threat, he does that better out of the center position.

I don't think Favor's post game is reliable enough to justify playing him against smaller 4s. Joe Johnson at the 4 provides a better offensive threat. I like that Favors can bully his guy in the post if they go small. But it is a lot to ask a guy that big to chase around players all night (especially if you want him to run the floor, and play 36 minutes, and not get injured).

I'm not afraid of playing Favors and Gobert together. But we maximize benefits if we use up all the 5 minutes on them, then start filing in the 4. That is my main point. Same minutes. Maximize them when Gobert is not on the floor, as the anchor of the defense.

[KqWIN]

I think that Exum will be the best player off the bench and find the most minutes out of that group. He might even be starting by the end of the year if he can shoot. I'm well aware of his skill deficiencies, but I believe in the work he put in this summer and that'll put him over Mitchell, Burks, and Thabo.

[Luigi]

I think that Exum will be the best player off the bench and find the most minutes out of that group. He might even be starting by the end of the year if he can shoot. I'm well aware of his skill deficiencies, but I believe in the work he put in this summer and that'll put him over Mitchell, Burks, and Thabo.

Here's to hoping. The asset pool would look a lot brighter to me if Exum could get there early this year.

[Curtis Lemansky]

How many minutes will Mitchell get? 15? or 25?

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[AingesBurner]

How many minutes will Mitchell get? 15? or 25?

Sent from my SM-G930F using RealGM mobile app

Local pundits think he may get 25+, it all depends on who works hardest in practice.

[tleikheen]

I think Mitchells minutes to start off the year depend on how far Burks has come back from his injuries.
Jazz want to get off to a good start and Burks when healthy has the potential to put up points and has experience.Mitchell has a very bright future and will get a chance to get his feet wet slower as his PT will be controlled to optimize playing with success.

Exum will be 1st off the bench and Burks next. Mitchell's time will probably depend on the start the Jazz have W/L wise.If Jazz are playing poorly maybe Mitchell gets a early shot but if Rubio/Hood,Exum/Burks are playing good and Jazz are winning Mitchell will learn from the bench and garbage time.

[Daddy 801]

Im digging up this thread because I finally sat down on excel and did some basic minute and point hypothesizing. Call me crazy but I think this team can be better than we think with some pretty low/realistic estimations.

I did the 11 main players playing conservative minutes and added what I though was a very realistic PPG outcome. I got 104 PPG if all the players average these numbers. If we have a good defense and can put up 104 PPG(conservatively) then we will have a good team.

As you you can see I broke it down into PG/Handler, Wing/Guard, PF/SmallBall, and C. Of course a guy like Ingles is a BallHandler but for sake of putting together something fast I just categorized it this way. If we can average 104 I think that puts us as the 16th-22nd offense. If we can do that while being top 3 on defense then the Jazz should easily get wins. And if Quin can utilizes his game strategies effectively, altitude to his advantage, and speeds up the offense off misses and we get a few more steals to get a few easy buckets the PPG could easily creep up a few points per game which would be huge for the win total. I expect the defense to stay somewhere in the 98-99 category giving the Jazz a season point differential of 5-8 PPG.

I think the one criticism will be Burks and Hoods PPG. I believe Alec and Hood can do it, maybe not though. But I have a hard time thinking that between Dante, Dononvan, Alec, and Hood getting combined 90 minutes the four of them can't combine for 46 points. That may be high. But I think those four are going to get a lot of opportunity and shots. Looking at the stats I think the season will come down to those four guys and how effective they are, and of course injuries. The rest of the numbers are basically the averages players have had in the past. Yes, it assumes Favs is healthy. But I didn't increase Gobert at all and I can easily see him averaging 17-18 PPG.

Tell me where you think I am off.

edit- Hopefully it is a little easier to read now. Still sucks, I know. Having looked at Yahoo it seems the Jazz scored 100.7 PPG. And we had a differential of 3.9 so we held teams to 96.8 PPG. I am going to make a few adjustments based on what we have seen in preseason. I am going to bring Favs PPG game down a bit, but Gobert up a bit. I brought Burks and Hood down one as well. It leaves the Jazz with a 100 PPG game total. I believe this is very conservative estimates, but that is what we scored last year so maybe not . The problem I have is I think the Jazz defense is going to allow more PPG as we are going to speed up the pace and have more possessions per game. So we end up scoring about 100 PPG and allowing 98 a game. Now we are down to a 2 point differential. Which would have made us the 9th best last year instead of 6th best. Let's say more teams increase their differential this year and we are 11th best. Which means in the east the Cavs, Toronto, Boston, and Washington are all above the Jazz. And in the West the Warriors, Spurs, Rockets, OKC(assuming jump), will all easily be above the Jazz. The Jazz will be neck and neck with Minnesota, Grizzlies, Nuggets, Clippers(assuming drop off). So if I had to make a projection on playoffs I would assume Warriors, Rockets, Spurs, OKC, Minnesota, Nuggets, Jazz, Blazers(assuming bump up), Grizzlies, Clippers(assuming big drop off), Pelicans(wild card, could go way up, Boogie looks good ), Mavericks, Kings, Suns, Lakers. Basically the Jazz have no wiggle room. A serious injury, a lack of development by Dante and Donovan, a lack of health by Favs, and the team is in trouble real quick. I guess by my math we are exactly in the spot most pundits have said, with potential of being a bit better. The one glimmer of hope I have is that I believe Burks, Donovan, Dante, and Hood can average more than 44 PPG. If those 4 bring it up to 46-48 we will see a dramatic increase in the offensive and differential.

Roster----------------PG/Handler--------Wing/G--------PF/SmallBall---------C----------------PPG
---------------MPG--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rubio----------30--------30------------------------------------------------------------------10
Dante----------19--------18---------------4--------------------------------------------------8
Donovan-------19-------------------------22-------------------------------------------------8
Burks----------24--------------------------24------------------------------------------------13
Hood----------28--------------------------28------------------------------------------------15
Ingles----------22-------------------------15----------------7 --------------------------------8
Thabo ---------12-------------------------12--------------------------------------------------3
J.J.------------12-------------------------15--------------------------------------------------5
Favs-----------30-------------------------------------------14---------------16--------------13
Gobert--------32--------------------------------------------------------------32-------------17
Jerebko-------12-------------------------------------------12---------------------------------3
------------------------48-----------------96---------------48---------------48-------PPG 100

[Crunch 99]

Im digging up this thread because I finally sat down on excel and did some basic minute and point hypothesizing. Call me crazy but I think this team can be better than we think with some pretty low/realistic estimations.

Good effort!!!

Tell me where you think I am off.

I think 5 to 8 point differential is too ambitious. A 5 ppg differential, the lower part of your range, would have been good for 4th highest differential in league last season. An 8 ppg differential would have been good for 2nd in the league last season. The Jazz had a 3.9 ppp differential last season, scoring 100.7 ppg and giving up 96.8 ppg.

My latest wild guesses, which are worth are how much you paid for them : Give Rudy 3 more points to 17 ppg and give Favors 4 fewer points, 11 ppg, not because Favors can't score 15 ppg, but because I suspect that he won't get the opportunity. Same with Burks --- I'd knock off 3 points because he probably won't get the opportunity. Put Burks at 11 ppg and knock Hood down one point to 15 ppg. Knock off a point for Rubio to 9 ppg and give Thabo a couple of more points to 5 ppg. My tweaks have us down to 100 ppg.

For opposing teams, I'll go with 97 ppg, leaving us a 3 point differential, which is still very good, and would have been good enough for eighth best differential last season. (This differential might still be too high!)

[Inigo Montoya]

[Daddy 801]

Im digging up this thread because I finally sat down on excel and did some basic minute and point hypothesizing. Call me crazy but I think this team can be better than we think with some pretty low/realistic estimations.

Good effort!!!

Tell me where you think I am off.

I think 5 to 8 point differential is too ambitious. A 5 ppg differential, the lower part of your range, would have been good for 4th highest differential in league last season. An 8 ppg differential would have been good for 2nd in the league last season. The Jazz had a 3.9 ppp differential last season, scoring 100.7 ppg and giving up 96.8 ppg.

My latest wild guesses, which are worth are how much you paid for them : Give Rudy 3 more points to 17 ppg and give Favors 4 fewer points, 11 ppg, not because Favors can't score 15 ppg, but because I suspect that he won't get the opportunity. Same with Burks --- I'd knock off 3 points because he probably won't get the opportunity. Put Burks at 11 ppg and Hood at 15 ppg. Knock off a point for Rubio to 9 ppg and give Thabo a couple of more points to 5 ppg. My tweaks have us down to 100 ppg.

For opposing teams, I'll go with 97 ppg, leaving us a 3 point differential, which is still very good, and would have been good enough for eighth best differential last season. (This differential might still be too high!)

Thanks for the reply. Right after I did this Locke did a podcast and spoke about the differential. Some of the stats I saw were not in line with what he was saying. I may have found bad data it seems. I was using teamrankings.com. I did not use NBA stats as everyone says their site sucks. If anyone has a suggestion on where to look for more reliable data I would be appreciative.

[Daddy 801]

Inigo, when I preview my post from above the spacing for the numbers is all spread out and easy to read. Then when I post it it scrunches it up. What am I doing wrong, or what can I do so it stays spaced out and is easier to read?