Favors vs a stretch 4

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Favors vs a stretch 4 

Post#1 » by Pass_the_rock » Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:47 pm

So is Favors really worth it seeing if he can be come back to his 16 & 8 form? Or is going with a lighter more mobile PF who can stroke it from the outside and guard the perimeter more beneficial for offense and defense?

I kind of like Favors but think he can be played off the floor by a good 3 point shooting offense as he isn't the most lethal scorer around to punish teams on the other end, and his defense is duplicated by Gobert.

So Rubio-Mitchell?-Hood-Jingles?-Rudy (for example) or Rubio-Hood-Jingles-Favors-Rudy ?

Not too mention the incoming UFA of DF and you can be wasting time with a player who plays for his next contract with another team.
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Re: Favors vs a stretch 4 

Post#2 » by AingesBurner » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:02 pm

I really would like a stretch 4 with D but I think we got that guy with Jerebko so don't be surprised if Jerebko is playing as much or more than Favors, I see the Jazz really trying to rebuild Favors, Hood's, Exum's, and Burks' value and then trading 2 or 3 of them for a difference maker who can play the 3 and 4.
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Re: Favors vs a stretch 4 

Post#3 » by UTJazzFan_Echo1 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:52 pm

Is it really worth it?

Favors was a top 30 player when healthy, so ya, it's worth it. You don't just go find top 30 players on the street like you do with old pennies.

Besides, during the pre-season this past year, Favors was showing signs of being able to shoot the 3 ball.
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Re: Favors vs a stretch 4 

Post#4 » by zero24gravity » Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:00 pm

He doesn't need to (and likely won't) play much with Gobert. His value really is as the back-up center. The Jazz will ALWAYS have a very good anchor at the center spot on the floor, which is awesome! Gobert is elite, and Favors is still VERY good defensively, especially vs 2nd team players.

So yeah, a stretch-4 might fit next to Gobert better, but the Jazz have those in JJ & Jerebko. There's no reason to give up on Favors, who can play some minutes at PF and also at center. If healthy, he's a difference maker. If he's beat-up again, he still has better value than the majority of back up centers in the league, and isn't on a terrible contract.

Answer to your question: Yes, it's worth it!
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Re: Favors vs a stretch 4 

Post#5 » by AingesBurner » Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:05 pm

I think we will see how good Favors is because we will know starting the season, if he worked hard on losing weight, getting his cardio up, and work on his shooting and passing, we will know. He really can be as good as Dray but its up to him if he wants to be that good.
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Re: Favors vs a stretch 4 

Post#6 » by stra0448 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:16 pm

Favors can get a dunk or FTs vs. every lightweight "stretch-4" with Rubio feeding him the ball.
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Re: Favors vs a stretch 4 

Post#7 » by BudTugly » Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:32 pm

I don't believe in the concept of "stretch 4" anymore since half of that is defending strong post players. Just go small if you want shooting. Those 6'9 back to the basket guys are not in vogue at all.
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Re: Favors vs a stretch 4 

Post#8 » by stitches » Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:42 pm

I thought Favors+Gobert could never work when we were first faced with the possibility of them starting together, because of the lack of spacing. With time I had to accept that the numbers proved me completely wrong. Favors+Gobert has been our best bigs combo 3 years running... My personal opinion also has been that skill and quality will almost always trump fit. I think fit comes into the picture only when the level of the players in discussion is very close. I think the fit of Rubio-Favors-Gobert is horrible. I cannot imagine how it could work, but then again I thought the same about Favors+Gobert alone. I guess I'm willing to give them the chance to try it and see if the defensive prowess can wash over the obvious offensive struggles those lineups will have.

Ideally we will have somebody at the 4 who can stretch the floor and playmake a bit, but I don't think there is one available that's even close to the level of healthy Favors.
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Re: Favors vs a stretch 4 

Post#9 » by Pass_the_rock » Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:45 pm

UTJazzFan_Echo1 wrote:Is it really worth it?

Favors was a top 30 player when healthy, so ya, it's worth it. You don't just go find top 30 players on the street like you do with old pennies.

Besides, during the pre-season this past year, Favors was showing signs of being able to shoot the 3 ball.


that's really really debatable. For instance his best season in RPM (14-15) had him #37 overall, in 15-16 he was #71 and 13-14 he was #202. I don't think he was ever a top 30 player by any standard. He's a good player but his UFA status is really a problem, you can hold him in high regard all you want and easily lose him for nothing to another team next summer just like GH this summer. If you can get a draft pick from a borderline playoff team it's not all that crazy to take such deal. Get a pick and free up more minutes for guys like Mitchell, Exum and Burks, open up the offense for them with a real stretch PF, get up and down the floor faster. You may win more games this way and get more development for the guys in the crowded perimeter rotation.
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Re: Favors vs a stretch 4 

Post#10 » by Winglish » Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:54 pm

Derrick Favors was the PF in Utah's best 5 man lineup with over 25 possessions last season.

Hill, Jingles, Hayward, Favors Gobert was the very best team the Jazz had.

I like Favors as a combo 4/5 with some of his minutes coming behind Gobert. Joe Johnson was an excellent backup 4 last season. I would rather JJ get those power forward minutes than Jingles. I think Jingles is a wing player.


https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/lineup_finder.cgi?request=1&match=game&lineup_type=5-man&output=total&is_playoffs=N&year_id=2017&team_id=UTA&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&c1stat=poss&c1comp=ge&c1val=25&order_by=diff_pts

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Re: Favors vs a stretch 4 

Post#11 » by Pass_the_rock » Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:58 pm

stitches wrote:I thought Favors+Gobert could never work when we were first faced with the possibility of them starting together, because of the lack of spacing. With time I had to accept that the numbers proved me completely wrong. Favors+Gobert has been our best bigs combo 3 years running... My personal opinion also has been that skill and quality will almost always trump fit. I think fit comes into the picture only when the level of the players in discussion is very close. I think the fit of Rubio-Favors-Gobert is horrible. I cannot imagine how it could work, but then again I thought the same about Favors+Gobert alone. I guess I'm willing to give them the chance to try it and see if the defensive prowess can wash over the obvious offensive struggles those lineups will have.

Ideally we will have somebody at the 4 who can stretch the floor and playmake a bit, but I don't think there is one available that's even close to the level of healthy Favors.


But that may have more to do with Gobert just being awesome and Favors sharing the court with him a lot. Rudy's +/- numbers are always good, while Derick's are not which says to me that the team play drops off when Rudy goes to the bench and Favors can't do much about when doesn't have Gobert next to him.
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Re: Favors vs a stretch 4 

Post#12 » by BudTugly » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:01 pm

Judging by what is happening around the league it seems we have decent odds of returning DF on an extension not much more expensive than what he's getting paid now, particularly if it's long term.

I thought he was worth 17-20, but that market is super dry now. If I was him would I take 4-50? I don't know, honestly. Would his critics here keep him at that?

Plus isn't Jerebko kinda stretchy? Maybe this question isn't a vs.
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Re: Favors vs a stretch 4 

Post#13 » by stitches » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:02 pm

Pass_the_rock wrote:
But that may have more to do with Gobert just being awesome and Favors sharing the court with him a lot. Rudy's +/- numbers are always good, while Derick's are not which says to me that the team play drops off when Rudy goes to the bench and Favors can't do much about when doesn't have Gobert next to him.

Numbers say otherwise - they've been better together than either of them alone. That was especially true when Favors was healthy the previous 2 years, but even this year with Favors playing on 1 leg, lineups of Gobert with Favors on the floor were better than lineups with Gobert with Favors off the floor.
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Re: Favors vs a stretch 4 

Post#14 » by Pass_the_rock » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:21 pm

BudTugly wrote:Judging by what is happening around the league it seems we have decent odds of returning DF on an extension not much more expensive than what he's getting paid now, particularly if it's long term.

I thought he was worth 17-20, but that market is super dry now. If I was him would I take 4-50? I don't know, honestly. Would his critics here keep him at that?

Plus isn't Jerebko kinda stretchy? Maybe this question isn't a vs.


Ibaka got his 20+, an ancient Taj even got 14. Why would Favors take less than Taj Gibson?
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Re: Favors vs a stretch 4 

Post#15 » by stitches » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:22 pm

Pass_the_rock wrote:
BudTugly wrote:Judging by what is happening around the league it seems we have decent odds of returning DF on an extension not much more expensive than what he's getting paid now, particularly if it's long term.

I thought he was worth 17-20, but that market is super dry now. If I was him would I take 4-50? I don't know, honestly. Would his critics here keep him at that?

Plus isn't Jerebko kinda stretchy? Maybe this question isn't a vs.


Ibaka got his 20+, an ancient Taj even got 14. Why would Favors take less than Taj Gibson?

Yep, if Favors has a healthy year, I think he will command at least 15M per year.
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Re: Favors vs a stretch 4 

Post#16 » by BudTugly » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:31 pm

Those contracts are already being laughed at though. There is an interesting thread on the GB about the Bigs market and how teams view these guys.
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Re: Favors vs a stretch 4 

Post#17 » by UTJazzFan_Echo1 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:40 pm

Pass_the_rock wrote:
UTJazzFan_Echo1 wrote:Is it really worth it?

Favors was a top 30 player when healthy, so ya, it's worth it. You don't just go find top 30 players on the street like you do with old pennies.

Besides, during the pre-season this past year, Favors was showing signs of being able to shoot the 3 ball.


that's really really debatable. For instance his best season in RPM (14-15) had him #37 overall, in 15-16 he was #71 and 13-14 he was #202. I don't think he was ever a top 30 player by any standard. He's a good player but his UFA status is really a problem, you can hold him in high regard all you want and easily lose him for nothing to another team next summer just like GH this summer. If you can get a draft pick from a borderline playoff team it's not all that crazy to take such deal. Get a pick and free up more minutes for guys like Mitchell, Exum and Burks, open up the offense for them with a real stretch PF, get up and down the floor faster. You may win more games this way and get more development for the guys in the crowded perimeter rotation.

I'm not going to go into the stats, but it's not really debatable. Besides, even if we used RPM, 37 isn't THAT far away from 30.
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Re: Favors vs a stretch 4 

Post#18 » by Pass_the_rock » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:44 pm

BudTugly wrote:Those contracts are already being laughed at though. There is an interesting thread on the GB about the Bigs market and how teams view these guys.


laughed by who? RGM GB folks? like they even matter. I can imagine a Presti or a Morey sweating in their offices waiting to get an approval by RGM posters :lol:
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Re: Favors vs a stretch 4 

Post#19 » by BudTugly » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:52 pm

Pass_the_rock wrote:
BudTugly wrote:Those contracts are already being laughed at though. There is an interesting thread on the GB about the Bigs market and how teams view these guys.


laughed by who? RGM GB folks? like they even matter. I can imagine a Presti or a Morey sweating in their offices waiting to get an approval by RGM posters :lol:


Presti is the moron who traded Harden, watched Durant walk away and traded for PLUS paid Enes. Let's not use that guy as a sterling example.

Morey is now stocking his club with smaller dudes and hired D'Antoni. He's with the program.

My point is that a massive object is passing through tue NBA universe bending reality and the rest of the league will react to that, already is in fact. That's why I have a hard time figuring out what Favors ' market will look like or is now.

If that's funny then you're welcome. :wink:
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Re: Favors vs a stretch 4 

Post#20 » by Pass_the_rock » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:09 pm

BudTugly wrote:
Pass_the_rock wrote:
BudTugly wrote:Those contracts are already being laughed at though. There is an interesting thread on the GB about the Bigs market and how teams view these guys.


laughed by who? RGM GB folks? like they even matter. I can imagine a Presti or a Morey sweating in their offices waiting to get an approval by RGM posters :lol:


Presti is the moron who traded Harden, watched Durant walk away and traded for PLUS paid Enes. Let's not use that guy as a sterling example.

Morey is now stocking his club with smaller dudes and hired D'Antoni. He's with the program.

My point is that a massive object is passing through tue NBA universe bending reality and the rest of the league will react to that, already is in fact. That's why I have a hard time figuring out what Favors ' market will look like or is now.

If that's funny then you're welcome. :wink:


1)Even if Presti is a moron (the guy is genius drafter imo) he still DGAF about RGM.
2) Favors is a modern day center and he's nothing like Kanter, Okafor, etc. He's an all-arounder and if he's healthy he will get his contract.
3)I would agree that having multiple bigs on 20 mil contract is bad in today's NBA. That's why Jazz may not be smart to keep DF around.

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