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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Prospects

Posted: Sun Apr 7, 2024 2:44 am
by SoCalJazzFan
Anyone know much about Juan Nunez? Completely absent on most mocks even though he looks like Ricky Rubio with offensive potential if not outright talent.

Re: 2024 NBA Draft Prospects

Posted: Sun Apr 7, 2024 4:17 am
by babyjax13
Catchall wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
MalonesElbows wrote:
He has elite speed, hits the 3 at 44%, very efficient with a 23.5 PER and 59% TS, just a freshman.
Remember a lot of people dismissed Trae Young (including me) for being 6'1" and 165 lbs and he does 26 and 10 in the NBA.

Trae was a miraculous passer at the college level, though, he had a defining elite skill beyond his shooting.


Trae isn't as shifty or athletic as Dillingham.

Trae isn't as fast as Dillingham, but he's way more talented as a basketball player. I think Dillingham will be a solid pro, but if we are comparing him to guys like Trae he should go 1st in the draft. I don't see that, I don't think he has the shiftiness and ballhandling of the best players that are that slight of frame (Kemba, Kyrie) and I don't think he has the game management skills od the other elite point guards closer to his size (Conley, Paul). I like him, I think he'll be impactful and hopefully in that same tier as guys like Jeff Teague and Lou Williams.

Re: 2024 NBA Draft Prospects

Posted: Sun Apr 7, 2024 9:25 am
by Inigo Montoya
SoCalJazzFan wrote:Anyone know much about Juan Nunez? Completely absent on most mocks even though he looks like Ricky Rubio with offensive potential if not outright talent.

I think FJS actually brought him up a few months ago, says he's legit.

Re: 2024 NBA Draft Prospects

Posted: Sun Apr 7, 2024 1:01 pm
by MalonesElbows
babyjax13 wrote:Trae was a miraculous passer at the college level, though, he had a defining elite skill beyond his shooting.

He was a better passer and prospect, but not a miraculous passer. 5.2 turnovers per game cannot be considered miraculous.

Re: 2024 NBA Draft Prospects

Posted: Sun Apr 7, 2024 2:55 pm
by HadAnEffectHere
There's a lot of players with no offensive talent in this draft that just don't fit great at all with Hendricks or Kessler.

Sarr and Clingan are the clear #1 and #2 guys in this draft and Holland, Risacher, and Castle are the next tier of guys and none of those five have any offensive upside at all. Holland can maybe average 18 PPG? I would be surprised if any of the others score more than 14 PPG.

Then again, Kessler is probably getting moved and it's not clear Hendricks is part of the Jazz's future either.

Cody Williams is the only guy in this class I can see averaging 20 PPG on good efficiency and this requires huge amounts of athletic projection (he's too slow and too weak for the NBA currently)

Catchall wrote:
AGE1207 wrote:Risacher is obvious as he will go top 3 likely but around the 8 or 9th pick, I like Tidjane Salaun a lot, especially considering our timeline…


Risarcher's value goes way up if he can play and create off screens. He's not going to beat people off the dribble on his own, but coming off a screen he could become a tough to deal with.


68% from the line for his career suggests he has very little natural shooting talent. Projecting him to be more than a spotup guy who shoots 37% would be a mistake.

Re: 2024 NBA Draft Prospects

Posted: Mon Apr 8, 2024 12:09 am
by SoCalJazzFan
Inigo Montoya wrote:
SoCalJazzFan wrote:Anyone know much about Juan Nunez? Completely absent on most mocks even though he looks like Ricky Rubio with offensive potential if not outright talent.

I think FJS actually brought him up a few months ago, says he's legit.

It surprises me that he is completely absent from most mock drafts.


Watch on YouTube

Re: 2024 NBA Draft Prospects

Posted: Mon Apr 8, 2024 4:57 am
by Pelly24
Catchall wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
MalonesElbows wrote:
He has elite speed, hits the 3 at 44%, very efficient with a 23.5 PER and 59% TS, just a freshman.
Remember a lot of people dismissed Trae Young (including me) for being 6'1" and 165 lbs and he does 26 and 10 in the NBA.

Trae was a miraculous passer at the college level, though, he had a defining elite skill beyond his shooting.


Trae isn't as shifty or athletic as Dillingham.


Trae is *at least* as shifty as Dillingham. Trae has one of the quickest first steps in the league. He can get by anyone at any time and he was a better playmaker. I really don't know if Dillingham is more athletic. People see the fast break dunks, but notice no dunks in the halfcourt. Dillingham is not going to be an above the rim player in the NBA, he's not a powerfully built guard like a John Wall, Derrick Rose, Eric Gordon, etc. He is going to be an at-rim maybe player who gets to the rim like 2 times a game. It's very hard to be 6'1" 170 and get to the rim consistently in the NBA. People look at Steph and Kyrie, but both are actually a little taller and, in actuality, are kind of jacked, extremely strong w. their core. Dame is the same way. Dillibgham isn't in that mold. I see him as a Bones Hyland, Immanuel Quickly, Lou Will type. But maybe he becomes a rich man's version of that and becomes an all-star. He's incredibly crafty and he can shoot.

Re: 2024 NBA Draft Prospects

Posted: Mon Apr 8, 2024 5:02 am
by Pelly24
babyjax13 wrote:
Catchall wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:Trae was a miraculous passer at the college level, though, he had a defining elite skill beyond his shooting.


Trae isn't as shifty or athletic as Dillingham.

Trae isn't as fast as Dillingham, but he's way more talented as a basketball player. I think Dillingham will be a solid pro, but if we are comparing him to guys like Trae he should go 1st in the draft. I don't see that, I don't think he has the shiftiness and ballhandling of the best players that are that slight of frame (Kemba, Kyrie) and I don't think he has the game management skills od the other elite point guards closer to his size (Conley, Paul). I like him, I think he'll be impactful and hopefully in that same tier as guys like Jeff Teague and Lou Williams.



I see the Kyrie comparison a lot, but their frames are actually totally different. Kyrie isn't thought of as some big strong guy, but he's actually pretty big and he plays a lot more physically than people think. He takes off very well from one or two feet and regularly absorbs contact from wings, bigs and stocky point guards without being affected. A lot of the 2016 finals was just him flat-out muscling Draymond Green and Klay Thompson for tough midrange shots and layups. He's not Westbrook, but he plays with more power and aggression and force than someone like a Kemba Walker. I would say he's an overall better athlete than Dillingham due to his size and strength, and I think he's faster

Re: 2024 NBA Draft Prospects

Posted: Mon Apr 8, 2024 8:36 am
by babyjax13
MalonesElbows wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:Trae was a miraculous passer at the college level, though, he had a defining elite skill beyond his shooting.

He was a better passer and prospect, but not a miraculous passer. 5.2 turnovers per game cannot be considered miraculous.

If you watched Oklahoma you know why he had so many turnovers. I would bet at least 3 of those per game were his teammates having hands of stone or no court awareness at all.

Re: 2024 NBA Draft Prospects

Posted: Mon Apr 8, 2024 8:36 am
by babyjax13
Pelly24 wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
Catchall wrote:
Trae isn't as shifty or athletic as Dillingham.

Trae isn't as fast as Dillingham, but he's way more talented as a basketball player. I think Dillingham will be a solid pro, but if we are comparing him to guys like Trae he should go 1st in the draft. I don't see that, I don't think he has the shiftiness and ballhandling of the best players that are that slight of frame (Kemba, Kyrie) and I don't think he has the game management skills od the other elite point guards closer to his size (Conley, Paul). I like him, I think he'll be impactful and hopefully in that same tier as guys like Jeff Teague and Lou Williams.



I see the Kyrie comparison a lot, but their frames are actually totally different. Kyrie isn't thought of as some big strong guy, but he's actually pretty big and he plays a lot more physically than people think. He takes off very well from one or two feet and regularly absorbs contact from wings, bigs and stocky point guards without being affected. A lot of the 2016 finals was just him flat-out muscling Draymond Green and Klay Thompson for tough midrange shots and layups. He's not Westbrook, but he plays with more power and aggression and force than someone like a Kemba Walker. I would say he's an overall better athlete than Dillingham due to his size and strength, and I think he's faster

Completely agree re Kyrie.

Re: 2024 NBA Draft Prospects

Posted: Mon Apr 8, 2024 6:56 pm
by FJS
FJS wrote:I don't use to write in this thread since I don't watch any NCAA game, so I don't have any opinion in prospects, but I think Jazz should draft with their later picks acquired recently Juan Núñez.
The kid has played with Spanish NT and is a real deal as PG.


I said it a pair of months ago. Since looks he is gonna go undrafted I would draft him with out later pick. The guy had the keys of pg in the last WC and did fairly well. And I say that when we have had several talent PG's in Spain (Rubio, Calderón, Rodríguez, Raul López) I think he deserves at least a try. A true PG.

Re: 2024 NBA Draft Prospects

Posted: Mon Apr 8, 2024 8:35 pm
by SoCalJazzFan
FJS wrote:
FJS wrote:I don't use to write in this thread since I don't watch any NCAA game, so I don't have any opinion in prospects, but I think Jazz should draft with their later picks acquired recently Juan Núñez.
The kid has played with Spanish NT and is a real deal as PG.


I said it a pair of months ago. Since looks he is gonna go undrafted I would draft him with out later pick. The guy had the keys of pg in the last WC and did fairly well. And I say that when we have had several talent PG's in Spain (Rubio, Calderón, Rodríguez, Raul López) I think he deserves at least a try. A true PG.

He seems like he would be a good candidate for that early 2nd rd pick.

Re: 2024 NBA Draft Prospects

Posted: Tue Apr 9, 2024 2:12 am
by Hoops Addict

Re: 2024 NBA Draft Prospects

Posted: Tue Apr 9, 2024 2:18 am
by Hoops Addict
Isaish Collier was thought of being the #1 high school player last year. He had a slow start, but is coming around and expected to be picked around #11. Do the Jazzwant Collier......a QUICK PG

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/isaiah-collier/

NBA Comparison: Jeff Teague/Eric Bledsoe
Strengths: Collier is a 6’4 215 PG/SG with a chiseled, NBA-ready frame on the perimeter, as well as very good speed, body control and burst … Physical and sturdy guard who seeks contact and has the strength to steamroll matchups on his way to the rim; is at his best getting downhill slashing to the basket looking to score or drive and dish (16.3 PG & 4.3 APG as a Fr.) … Very powerful first step and his nice ball-handling ability with either hand make him tough to contain and allow him to turn corners and pressure the rim … Looks really good in transition; consistently keeps guys on their heels in the open floor…More of a score-first guard than a playmaker, but has shown some signs of adequate floor vision with the ability to drop off some nicely timed passes to cutters or bigs rolling to the basket … Capable of making some big-time passes and is particularly effective rewarding players who run the floor with hit ahead passes … Can effectively convert at the rim through contact (54 FG% inside the arc) and draws fouls at a high level already (nearly 6 FTA/G) … Will make tricky lay-ins and does a good job using the rim and backboard to shield the ball from potential shot-blockers…Has some shiftiness to him and will subtly get space utilizing hesitation moves when guarded too closely … Promising pick-and-roll ability and poses a threat for big men to handle when they switch onto him…Applies pressure when he has the ball and will eat up space even when defenders sag off at times…Promising ability to post up smaller players … Efficient scorer (49 FG% on 11.6 FTA/G); had seven games that he scored at least 20 points in and only took 20 shots in one of those games … Shoots passing lanes and forces turnovers that lead to runouts (1.5 SPG) … Has the tools to matchup well defensively on the perimeter, particularly in the backcourt … Competitive with some leadership qualities you look for in a lead guard prospect … Played some of his best, most clean basketball down the stretch of the season after returning from an injury (1/11 games with 5+ turnovers post-injury, compared to 5/16 games pre-injury) … High floor prospect who could serve as an effective instant offense piece even if he isn’t quite ready or doesn’t work as a teams floor general …

Weaknesses: His ability to pick his spots and process things against set defenses are a work in progress for a lead guard … Currently tends to try to strong-arm his way to where he wants to go on the court rather than taking what the defense gives him, which leads to some unsightly possessions, bad turnovers and offensive fouls (3.3 TOPG) … Fundamentals can stand to tighten up as well; sometimes is loose and too casual with his handle and delivering passes, particularly when the defense blitzes him or collapses the paint … Jump shot will need to improve to maximize his offensive game (34 3FG% on 3 3FGA/G)…Showed some raw flashes of shot-making ability at the beginning of the season but lost effectiveness and confidence as the season wore on (only made multiple 3-pointers in 5 games) … Fundamentals need work here too, as he does not get much elevation on his shot and uses mostly upper body, which leads to him having a rather erratic follow-through even when his feet are set … Sporadically hit shots pulling up from mid-range but needs to do so more often…FT numbers were not so great for a guard as a Fr (68 FT%), which further illustrate his mediocre shooting and somewhat nullified the very good rate that he took trips to the charity stripe … Has the tools to be effective on defense and even was pesky when dialed in, but once again his fundamentals need considerable work on this end, as well as his awareness … Struggled to deny penetration and navigate screens as a Fr., mostly due to closing out on the perimeter too upright in stance and leaving himself out of position to resist dribble penetration … Can be a bit handsy defensively at times too (2.4 FPG) … Adequate leaping ability but he isn’t the most explosive vertical athlete …


Overall: Collier was a blue chip 5-star prospect out of the Atlanta area who was ranked the #1 player in the 2023 Class by multiple recruiting services … He committed to Andy Enfield and USC early in his Sr season of HS and was part of a top 3 ranked class that included highly-regarded prospects Bronny James and HS teammate Arrington Page among others … Though he had some down moments, Collier made an immediate impact with his mature build and aggressive play style as an All Pac 12 Freshman Team performer in what can be categorized as a down year for USC as a team, partially due to injuries (including to Collier, who missed a month of the conference slate due to a hand injury) … He brings ready made physical tools, promising scoring ability, pick and roll skills, transition play and flashes of really nice passing to the table as a young prospect right now … How his jump shot, decision-making and fundamentals/polish on both ends of the court round out and improve over time will determine if he reaches the potential that saw many peg him as a favorite to be the 1st pick in the 2024 Draft before the season started, though his turnovers did drop a bit after he returned from his hand injury … He’s fun to watch when he’s on his game (ie his 18 point 5 assist game against KState or his 31 point outburst against Washington) and he’s a huge threat in the open court which projects well to the wide open style in the NBA … Collier draft stock isn’t likely in the neighborhood of being the 1st pick as it was maybe this time last year, but he probably is still in good position to be a lottery selection in 2024 …

Re: 2024 NBA Draft Prospects

Posted: Tue Apr 9, 2024 2:40 am
by Hoops Addict
Isaish Collier was thought of being the #1 high school player last year. He had a slow start, but is coming around and expected to be picked around #11. Do the Jazzwant Collier......a QUICK PG

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/isaiah-collier/

NBA Comparison: Jeff Teague/Eric Bledsoe
Strengths: Collier is a 6’4 215 PG/SG with a chiseled, NBA-ready frame on the perimeter, as well as very good speed, body control and burst … Physical and sturdy guard who seeks contact and has the strength to steamroll matchups on his way to the rim; is at his best getting downhill slashing to the basket looking to score or drive and dish (16.3 PG & 4.3 APG as a Fr.) … Very powerful first step and his nice ball-handling ability with either hand make him tough to contain and allow him to turn corners and pressure the rim … Looks really good in transition; consistently keeps guys on their heels in the open floor…More of a score-first guard than a playmaker, but has shown some signs of adequate floor vision with the ability to drop off some nicely timed passes to cutters or bigs rolling to the basket … Capable of making some big-time passes and is particularly effective rewarding players who run the floor with hit ahead passes … Can effectively convert at the rim through contact (54 FG% inside the arc) and draws fouls at a high level already (nearly 6 FTA/G) … Will make tricky lay-ins and does a good job using the rim and backboard to shield the ball from potential shot-blockers…Has some shiftiness to him and will subtly get space utilizing hesitation moves when guarded too closely … Promising pick-and-roll ability and poses a threat for big men to handle when they switch onto him…Applies pressure when he has the ball and will eat up space even when defenders sag off at times…Promising ability to post up smaller players … Efficient scorer (49 FG% on 11.6 FTA/G); had seven games that he scored at least 20 points in and only took 20 shots in one of those games … Shoots passing lanes and forces turnovers that lead to runouts (1.5 SPG) … Has the tools to matchup well defensively on the perimeter, particularly in the backcourt … Competitive with some leadership qualities you look for in a lead guard prospect … Played some of his best, most clean basketball down the stretch of the season after returning from an injury (1/11 games with 5+ turnovers post-injury, compared to 5/16 games pre-injury) … High floor prospect who could serve as an effective instant offense piece even if he isn’t quite ready or doesn’t work as a teams floor general …

Weaknesses: His ability to pick his spots and process things against set defenses are a work in progress for a lead guard … Currently tends to try to strong-arm his way to where he wants to go on the court rather than taking what the defense gives him, which leads to some unsightly possessions, bad turnovers and offensive fouls (3.3 TOPG) … Fundamentals can stand to tighten up as well; sometimes is loose and too casual with his handle and delivering passes, particularly when the defense blitzes him or collapses the paint … Jump shot will need to improve to maximize his offensive game (34 3FG% on 3 3FGA/G)…Showed some raw flashes of shot-making ability at the beginning of the season but lost effectiveness and confidence as the season wore on (only made multiple 3-pointers in 5 games) … Fundamentals need work here too, as he does not get much elevation on his shot and uses mostly upper body, which leads to him having a rather erratic follow-through even when his feet are set … Sporadically hit shots pulling up from mid-range but needs to do so more often…FT numbers were not so great for a guard as a Fr (68 FT%), which further illustrate his mediocre shooting and somewhat nullified the very good rate that he took trips to the charity stripe … Has the tools to be effective on defense and even was pesky when dialed in, but once again his fundamentals need considerable work on this end, as well as his awareness … Struggled to deny penetration and navigate screens as a Fr., mostly due to closing out on the perimeter too upright in stance and leaving himself out of position to resist dribble penetration … Can be a bit handsy defensively at times too (2.4 FPG) … Adequate leaping ability but he isn’t the most explosive vertical athlete …


Overall: Collier was a blue chip 5-star prospect out of the Atlanta area who was ranked the #1 player in the 2023 Class by multiple recruiting services … He committed to Andy Enfield and USC early in his Sr season of HS and was part of a top 3 ranked class that included highly-regarded prospects Bronny James and HS teammate Arrington Page among others … Though he had some down moments, Collier made an immediate impact with his mature build and aggressive play style as an All Pac 12 Freshman Team performer in what can be categorized as a down year for USC as a team, partially due to injuries (including to Collier, who missed a month of the conference slate due to a hand injury) … He brings ready made physical tools, promising scoring ability, pick and roll skills, transition play and flashes of really nice passing to the table as a young prospect right now … How his jump shot, decision-making and fundamentals/polish on both ends of the court round out and improve over time will determine if he reaches the potential that saw many peg him as a favorite to be the 1st pick in the 2024 Draft before the season started, though his turnovers did drop a bit after he returned from his hand injury … He’s fun to watch when he’s on his game (ie his 18 point 5 assist game against KState or his 31 point outburst against Washington) and he’s a huge threat in the open court which projects well to the wide open style in the NBA … Collier draft stock isn’t likely in the neighborhood of being the 1st pick as it was maybe this time last year, but he probably is still in good position to be a lottery selection in 2024 …

Re: 2024 NBA Draft Prospects

Posted: Tue Apr 9, 2024 6:22 pm
by HadAnEffectHere
FJS wrote:
FJS wrote:I don't use to write in this thread since I don't watch any NCAA game, so I don't have any opinion in prospects, but I think Jazz should draft with their later picks acquired recently Juan Núñez.
The kid has played with Spanish NT and is a real deal as PG.


I said it a pair of months ago. Since looks he is gonna go undrafted I would draft him with out later pick. The guy had the keys of pg in the last WC and did fairly well. And I say that when we have had several talent PG's in Spain (Rubio, Calderón, Rodríguez, Raul López) I think he deserves at least a try. A true PG.


Nunez is ranked 24th by ESPN, not sure why you think he would go undrafted?

Re: 2024 NBA Draft Prospects

Posted: Tue Apr 9, 2024 9:09 pm
by Catchall
Pelly24 wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
Catchall wrote:
Trae isn't as shifty or athletic as Dillingham.

Trae isn't as fast as Dillingham, but he's way more talented as a basketball player. I think Dillingham will be a solid pro, but if we are comparing him to guys like Trae he should go 1st in the draft. I don't see that, I don't think he has the shiftiness and ballhandling of the best players that are that slight of frame (Kemba, Kyrie) and I don't think he has the game management skills od the other elite point guards closer to his size (Conley, Paul). I like him, I think he'll be impactful and hopefully in that same tier as guys like Jeff Teague and Lou Williams.



I see the Kyrie comparison a lot, but their frames are actually totally different. Kyrie isn't thought of as some big strong guy, but he's actually pretty big and he plays a lot more physically than people think. He takes off very well from one or two feet and regularly absorbs contact from wings, bigs and stocky point guards without being affected. A lot of the 2016 finals was just him flat-out muscling Draymond Green and Klay Thompson for tough midrange shots and layups. He's not Westbrook, but he plays with more power and aggression and force than someone like a Kemba Walker. I would say he's an overall better athlete than Dillingham due to his size and strength, and I think he's faster


Kyrie has more poise and more physical presence than Dillingham. My point was that Dillingham has made some Kyrie-level inidividual offensive plays this year that jump off the screen.

Re: 2024 NBA Draft Prospects

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 3:54 am
by bkohler
I'm increasingly thinking that I'd swing for a solid base hit with this draft pick and perhaps even trade down. I wonder a bit about someone like Donovan Clingan and then moving Kessler. I think Clingan being a bust is a very low probability, but I think he's probably got a similar ceiling to Walker, which I just don't think is very high—hence the base hit.

Could you, for instance, trade #8 to OKC for #12 and increase protections on next year's pick?

Re: 2024 NBA Draft Prospects

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 9:04 am
by Inigo Montoya
bkohler wrote:I'm increasingly thinking that I'd swing for a solid base hit with this draft pick and perhaps even trade down. I wonder a bit about someone like Donovan Clingan and then moving Kessler. I think Clingan being a bust is a very low probability, but I think he's probably got a similar ceiling to Walker, which I just don't think is very high—hence the base hit.

Could you, for instance, trade #8 to OKC for #12 and increase protections on next year's pick?

I don't see the point. Why move Kessler just to draft a similar player with a similar ceiling? To get more draft picks? The Jazz have plenty. What they need is high-end talent. Just pick the best player with the highest upside. I also don't see why the Jazz should go for a base hit with their lottery pick--what would be the point? If they wanted that, they should pick Knecht, who is 23 and has a defined role as a shooter in the NBA but that would be a waste. And if the Jazz want to keep their pick next season, they should simply tank like they're doing now. It's top-10 protected in 2025 and top-8 protected in 2026. I also don't think OKC needs any more picks, they're trying to unload them because they have more than they can use.

Re: 2024 NBA Draft Prospects

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 1:25 pm
by HadAnEffectHere
I would expect the Jazz to try to trade up for Sarr and to trade Kessler as well.

I don't think Hardy likes Kessler at all and wants him gone. His schemes are a complete mismatch with Kessler.