2014 WCF Thread: OKC/San Antonio (Page 16)

[HeartSouloma]

I don't under-stand why Kevin Durant, Ibaka, Westbrook, kept on railing on their jump-shooting. There are 24 seconds on the shot clock, and all I'm seeing is Westbrook rushing his shots. OKC never made any wise decision whenever they are on offense. I never seen any play-calls, just super-star talent. That's why Grizz are going to beat OKC, because they have some many options on offense.

And I don't under-stand why Brooks is not giving any minutes to Perry Jones/ Lamb. You cannot rely on fisher and your small ball crap. If Grizz coach can trust his young players, why can't Brooks? Udrih was killing OKC.....

If OKC doesn't make it to the WCF, then Brooks/Perkins better go. But I always have doubt, because Presti loves Brooks and Perkins.

Here goes to another year wasted...

[Trip]

Z Bo completely abused Perkins in the fourth and ot. Throw Collison in there and you have a great Randolph defender and a smart offensive player. You also had to Memphis up 2

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[Obad]

That offense was horribly. Durant and WB are both forcing it all the time. Selfish bull ****!

[hardenASG13]

Their nor forcing it, they have nobody else who can really create, besides Jackson, and brooks is killing his confidence by sitting him every time he messes up. I like what fisher has done this year but playing him over reggie is a joke. If Jackson can get into a rhythm the offense will look much better than the occasional 3 that fisher will make

[bondom34]

Their nor forcing it, they have nobody else who can really create, besides Jackson, and brooks is killing his confidence by sitting him every time he messes up. I like what fisher has done this year but playing him over reggie is a joke. If Jackson can get into a rhythm the offense will look much better than the occasional 3 that fisher will make

Yeah, and having Perk and Thabo there at the same time makes the offense so much worse. The defense wasn't good, but man when only 3 guys on court can score, and Ibaka can't create, its Russ and KD. I want them to win just for the Westbrook hate to stop for a few days. After last season I thought it was over, but here we are.

[Loud_city]

I swear that the general board is the most flip flop board of all time. Everyone hating on westbrook but there are 23+ teams that would grab him for their current pg right now.

[kdthunderup]

Brooks is a hack, he made no evident changes from game 2, I would say we even regressed. There was no emphasis to push for a high % shot it was just ISO ball crap at the top of the perimeter. Disgusting.

[bondom34]

I swear that the general board is the most flip flop board of all time. Everyone hating on westbrook but there are 23+ teams that would grab him for their current pg right now.

There's a handful of people who stick up for him. I love the guy, and will gladly admit he made his share of mistakes tonight as well, but KD was awful, flat out no excuses on both ends of the court. Allen has him off his game and he and Brooks aren't adjusting.

[DontH8TheBrody]

Anybody who watched that game and even mentions Westbrook as the losing factor is a troll.

I still can't believe these two miracles of getting into overtime.. The big part of me wants them to obviously win the series, but Brooks needs to go.. This guy doesn't have a clue, you can just tell.

The iso ball with KD/RW puts unbelievable pressure on those two.. How about run a few pick and roll/pop sets with Serge when they are getting loaded up on? NEVER EVER have Perk/Thabo on the court at the same time. Like all of this is just infuriating.. Stuff a local YMCA coach could notice.

We have zero chance of winning this round if our scoring looks like KD/RW: 30 each, Ibaka: 15, and then Jackson: 5 as the next closest scorer.. Jackson needs to be a huge part of this team RIGHT NOW. We need people who can create a shot for themselves.. Get Lamb in there too. Our best bench by far this year was early in the season Jackson/Lamb/Fisher/Collison/Adams. Play Butler or Fish whoever is hot. I will be sick if this team exits in the first round.

[bondom34]

Anybody who watched that game and even mentions Westbrook as the losing factor is a troll.

I still can't believe these two miracles of getting into overtime.. The big part of me wants them to obviously win the series, but Brooks needs to go.. This guy doesn't have a clue, you can just tell.

The iso ball with KD/RW puts unbelievable pressure on those two.. How about run a few pick and roll/pop sets with Serge when they are getting loaded up on? NEVER EVER have Perk/Thabo on the court at the same time. Like all of this is just infuriating.. Stuff a local YMCA coach could notice.

We have zero chance of winning this round if our scoring looks like KD/RW: 30 each, Ibaka: 15, and then Jackson: 5 as the next closest scorer.. Jackson needs to be a huge part of this team RIGHT NOW. We need people who can create a shot for themselves.. Get Lamb in there too. Our best bench by far this year was early in the season Jackson/Lamb/Fisher/Collison/Adams. Play Butler or Fish whoever is hot. I will be sick if this team exits in the first round.

Part of me wants them to lose for this. I'm sick of the Westbrook hate, the bench sucked too. I'm not going to be around for a few days and best case I'll listen to game 4 on radio, I may just miss it, I'm almost checked out on this season with how Brooks has been. I miss December with Adams, Lamb, and PJ (remember them !). Assuming losses at this point, I guess the Spurs/Blazers would be OK from the west, and just not Miami out east. OK I vented, feel a lil better.

[Bravenewworld]

Anybody who watched that game and even mentions Westbrook as the losing factor is a troll.

I still can't believe these two miracles of getting into overtime.. The big part of me wants them to obviously win the series, but Brooks needs to go.. This guy doesn't have a clue, you can just tell.

The iso ball with KD/RW puts unbelievable pressure on those two.. How about run a few pick and roll/pop sets with Serge when they are getting loaded up on? NEVER EVER have Perk/Thabo on the court at the same time. Like all of this is just infuriating.. Stuff a local YMCA coach could notice.

We have zero chance of winning this round if our scoring looks like KD/RW: 30 each, Ibaka: 15, and then Jackson: 5 as the next closest scorer.. Jackson needs to be a huge part of this team RIGHT NOW. We need people who can create a shot for themselves.. Get Lamb in there too. Our best bench by far this year was early in the season Jackson/Lamb/Fisher/Collison/Adams. Play Butler or Fish whoever is hot. I will be sick if this team exits in the first round.

1. You do understand that after tonight's win for Memphis the series over the past 3 seasons is now 15-15 right?
So its literally a flip of the coin to determine who will win.
This is a great Memphis team that OKC has problems with, but not so many problems that we cannot beat them in a series.

2. You know what happens to teams that fire successful coaches? Nothing positive.
Scott Brooks is fine and i really dont understand your irrational dislike of him.
Guess what? Phil Jackson, Pat Riley, Pop, Brown, etc. All have lost plenty of play off games.
Saying things like "Brooks should be fired!" is as stupid as people claiming Marc Jackson is coaching for his job. Its silly "what have you done for me in the last minute?" attitude that gets us no where.

3. IMO Memphis got lucky in game 2 and in game 3 rode the home team advantage. They have very inconsistent guards who have been playing well. The great thing about that is we know they wont play well all the time.

4. I think you may be forgetting that this is the same Memphis team that has made the WCFs two of the past four years. Its not like this is a slouch team that should not even have won one game. This is not the Miami/Bobcats series, this is a Memphis team that could probably take out the Heat in a 7 game series.

5. The ISO ball is an offensive option that RWB/KD decide to run if passing lanes and other options are not open.

6. Maybe you should take a minute to look at the positive things that came from this game. We figured out how to defend them. While it may have started in the late 3rd and 4th quarters, we now know how to do it.

7. Jackson has never played great against Memphis, their guards are, for the most part, A+ guards. He is young and they have done a fine job of containing him. It is what it is man. I see a lack of plays designed for Ibaka, Fisher and Collison as a much bigger issue.
Also, they might want to consider tossing Lamb in just to try to injure Tony Allen. ya, haha.... im not joking. They need to throw Lamb in, in the first quarter and allow him to guard Allen. Tell him that he needs to pick up 3 quick fouls but they need to be hard fouls against Allen. Try to steal the ball but end up smashing your shoulder into his ass.


So i am not completely bashing you and making it seem as OKC is a perfect team that just happened to lose, i will address some issues i saw.

One negative i can see with this series so far, and this might be good but i think it could help. We need to play Adam's and PJ3 more. We went the entire season regularly getting these guys into the line up and giving them proper minutes. So far we have not done that. I understand giving Perkins more minutes then usual because its Memphis and he damages them. But we need to give Adam's that chance too since he did the same in the regular season, but was more productive. PJ3 and/or even Roberson, i think could completely shut down Lee.
Also, Fisher needs to be more involved, i still wonder why he did not take the last shot in regulation.

[Ramblin Rose]

I'm convinced this team is worse than it was two years ago. And that says a lot, none of it positive.

[DontH8TheBrody]

Anybody who watched that game and even mentions Westbrook as the losing factor is a troll.

I still can't believe these two miracles of getting into overtime.. The big part of me wants them to obviously win the series, but Brooks needs to go.. This guy doesn't have a clue, you can just tell.

The iso ball with KD/RW puts unbelievable pressure on those two.. How about run a few pick and roll/pop sets with Serge when they are getting loaded up on? NEVER EVER have Perk/Thabo on the court at the same time. Like all of this is just infuriating.. Stuff a local YMCA coach could notice.

We have zero chance of winning this round if our scoring looks like KD/RW: 30 each, Ibaka: 15, and then Jackson: 5 as the next closest scorer.. Jackson needs to be a huge part of this team RIGHT NOW. We need people who can create a shot for themselves.. Get Lamb in there too. Our best bench by far this year was early in the season Jackson/Lamb/Fisher/Collison/Adams. Play Butler or Fish whoever is hot. I will be sick if this team exits in the first round.

1. You do understand that after tonight's win for Memphis the series over the past 3 seasons is now 15-15 right?
So its literally a flip of the coin to determine who will win.
This is a great Memphis team that OKC has problems with, but not so many problems that we cannot beat them in a series.

2. You know what happens to teams that fire successful coaches? Nothing positive.
Scott Brooks is fine and i really dont understand your irrational dislike of him.
Guess what? Phil Jackson, Pat Riley, Pop, Brown, etc. All have lost plenty of play off games.
Saying things like "Brooks should be fired!" is as stupid as people claiming Marc Jackson is coaching for his job. Its silly "what have you done for me in the last minute?" attitude that gets us no where.

3. IMO Memphis got lucky in game 2 and in game 3 rode the home team advantage. They have very inconsistent guards who have been playing well. The great thing about that is we know they wont play well all the time.

4. I think you may be forgetting that this is the same Memphis team that has made the WCFs two of the past four years. Its not like this is a slouch team that should not even have won one game. This is not the Miami/Bobcats series, this is a Memphis team that could probably take out the Heat in a 7 game series.

5. The ISO ball is an offensive option that RWB/KD decide to run if passing lanes and other options are not open.

6. Maybe you should take a minute to look at the positive things that came from this game. We figured out how to defend them. While it may have started in the late 3rd and 4th quarters, we now know how to do it.

7. Jackson has never played great against Memphis, their guards are, for the most part, A+ guards. He is young and they have done a fine job of containing him. It is what it is man. I see a lack of plays designed for Ibaka, Fisher and Collison as a much bigger issue.
Also, they might want to consider tossing Lamb in just to try to injure Tony Allen. ya, haha.... im not joking. They need to throw Lamb in, in the first quarter and allow him to guard Allen. Tell him that he needs to pick up 3 quick fouls but they need to be hard fouls against Allen. Try to steal the ball but end up smashing your shoulder into his ass.


So i am not completely bashing you and making it seem as OKC is a perfect team that just happened to lose, i will address some issues i saw.

One negative i can see with this series so far, and this might be good but i think it could help. We need to play Adam's and PJ3 more. We went the entire season regularly getting these guys into the line up and giving them proper minutes. So far we have not done that. I understand giving Perkins more minutes then usual because its Memphis and he damages them. But we need to give Adam's that chance too since he did the same in the regular season, but was more productive. PJ3 and/or even Roberson, i think could completely shut down Lee.
Also, Fisher needs to be more involved, i still wonder why he did not take the last shot in regulation.

I respect everybody's opinion but I guess you and I just don't see things the same.

I 100% realize this isn't a real #7 seed. It doesn't matter. This is a team with perhaps the most talented roster in the NBA PERIOD. You shouldn't go in the first round regardless of how good the team is. I also understand this series isn't over yet and there is still a very realistic chance we come back and win it.

I just see so much more potential in this group and I think it can be better utilized with a better game plan at times and better adjustments throughout series.

P.S. Don't understand how you would ever want Derek Fisher taking a game winner instead of KD/RW. I would have actually preferred a fake pass to KD, a quick pass to Russ and try to get inside the 3 line for a pull up 2, because he was hot.

[Bravenewworld]

I respect everybody's opinion but I guess you and I just don't see things the same.

Of course. I think we all share that same sentiment. Just realize that sometimes you can be corrected on something factual, that will/can/should have an impact on the opinion side of things. For example, the ISO offense that is not a set offense, but a play option KD/RWB take when running the offense. So "yadda yadda yadda ISO puts too much pressure on KD/Westbrook", context's changes when we realize this is an option these players choose to take in the moment.

I 100% realize this isn't a real #7 seed. It doesn't matter. This is a team with perhaps the most talented roster in the NBA PERIOD. You shouldn't go in the first round regardless of how good the team is. I also understand this series isn't over yet and there is still a very realistic chance we come back and win it.

----Take the seed numbers away and round away and simply look at the match up.
Memphis/OKC is now 15/15 since OKC has been a contender.
Memphis has two WCFs trips in the past four years, one of those years being last season.
Memphis exploits OKC the way no other team can. So far we are 50/50 in play off series.
Memphis has one of the best defenses in the NBA, even better then the Thunder's.
"Talent" can often be overcome with defense, experience, chemistry and a rivalry.

This team is basically our Finals. I don't think a Heat series would be as difficult as what Memphis has to offer. When we view it for what it really is, Memphis beating us is no surprise to anyone and not even "degrading" to the franchise.

Want to really send your mind through mental loops? Consider the following:
1. Memphis is probably the one team that gives us the most trouble and a win is 50/50.
2. The Spurs have zero problems sweeping the Grizzlies in the regular session or play offs.
3. The Thunder have zero problems sweeping the Spurs in the regular season and owning them in the play-offs.
Why?
And let the mental gymnastics begin!

P.S. Don't understand how you would every want Derek Fisher taking a game winner instead of KD/RW. I would have actually preferred a fake pass to KD, a quick pass to Russ and try to get inside the 3 line for a pull up 2, because he was hot.

At this point in his career Fisher gets paid to do one thing. Hit important 3s or long 2s at the buzzer or in close in game situations.
KD was always going to be double to triple teamed with Westbrook and Ibaka both being doubled. This was one of those situations where the play was drawn up to focus on those three and the motto would have essentially been "Make sure KD, WEstbrook and Ibaka are over covered, make someone else beat us. If someone else happens to beat us, then its better then those three getting an open shot".
In this case we had a guy who has made a career off hitting clutch shots and the defensive focus on him would have been slim to nil.
Fisher has proven himself so many times in these instances that the only player i would take above him taking that shot because said player was "hot", would be Jamal Crawford. Lets not forget that even KD's clutch shooting is a small fraction of what Fisher brings to the table.

[comingbacktousa]

Anybody who watched that game and even mentions Westbrook as the losing factor is a troll.

Anyone that suggest a point guard that shoots 20/54( 37%) and has assist to turnover rate of 10 to 7 over the course of 2 games isn't a losing factor in those games is a fanboy of that point guard.

[comingbacktousa]

Their nor forcing it, they have nobody else who can really create, besides Jackson, and brooks is killing his confidence by sitting him every time he messes up. I like what fisher has done this year but playing him over reggie is a joke. If Jackson can get into a rhythm the offense will look much better than the occasional 3 that fisher will make

Yeah, and having Perk and Thabo there at the same time makes the offense so much worse. The defense wasn't good, but man when only 3 guys on court can score, and Ibaka can't create, its Russ and KD. I want them to win just for the Westbrook hate to stop for a few days. After last season I thought it was over, but here we are.

Are you a Westbrook fan or a Thunder fan? Most fans of the team would want a win just so OKC would take the lead in the series or in the case of next game not go down 3-1.

Both you and donth8thebrody as well as others who have said it on the general board, wanting OKC to lose so Brooks gets fired is pathetic. As is giving up on a team that is only down 2-1.




If you guys want to be objective about the play calling or lack of it, I have a question for you guys. I think we can all agree that a lot more plays were run when Westbrook was out. Do you think that Brooks stopped wanting those plays run and wants them to go iso or Westbrook isn't running them?

[bondom34]

Their nor forcing it, they have nobody else who can really create, besides Jackson, and brooks is killing his confidence by sitting him every time he messes up. I like what fisher has done this year but playing him over reggie is a joke. If Jackson can get into a rhythm the offense will look much better than the occasional 3 that fisher will make

Yeah, and having Perk and Thabo there at the same time makes the offense so much worse. The defense wasn't good, but man when only 3 guys on court can score, and Ibaka can't create, its Russ and KD. I want them to win just for the Westbrook hate to stop for a few days. After last season I thought it was over, but here we are.

Are you a Westbrook fan or a Thunder fan? Most fans of the team would want a win just so OKC would take the lead in the series or in the case of next game not go down 3-1.

Both you and donth8thebrody as well as others who have said it on the general board, wanting OKC to lose so Brooks gets fired is pathetic. As is giving up on a team that is only down 2-1.




If you guys want to be objective about the play calling or lack of it, I have a question for you guys. I think we can all agree that a lot more plays were run when Westbrook was out. Do you think that Brooks stopped wanting those plays run and wants them to go iso or Westbrook isn't running them?

In that case, we just flat out disagree. The lineups were different, the plays were largely the same. I know you want to blame Westbrook, and I'm a fan of both he and KD. I do however raise expectations when a guy becomes a leauge MVP player who gets credit for carrying his team (which he did for a month). Durant consistently gets 0 blame, which is completely unfair if you want to be objective, which I know you don't as you've said multiple times you'd rather basically any mediocre player to come in to let Durant put up more shots.

I have said in many threads Westbrook deserves some blame, but when you look at games 2/3 and back to when Westbrook was out, plenty was similar. Is there some issue that the offense was exactly the same the last 2 games? It was clear something should be done by coaching adjustments, but nothing was (again). Back w/o Westbrook, lineups were different, Butler wasn't playing, Lamb was still playing and shooting well, OKC had PJ/Roberson/Adams off the bench with good contributions. Now none of them even touch the court. Blame Westbrook all you'd like, but this is on Brooks 10 X more to me. Sorry, I'm not going to be online for a few days as I'll be traveling, but we've had this debate before, and I both don't care to and won't be able to, but we're apparently seeing something different.

Edit: As well, I was annoyed last night but of course would rather win. As well, if you want to call out anyone for shooting, how about the MVP who's 22/55 (which is worse than the PG)? No blame goes to him which is completely and totally unfair.

[comingbacktousa]

Durant consistently gets 0 blame, which is completely unfair if you want to be objective, which I know you don't as you've said multiple times you'd rather basically any mediocre player to come in to let Durant put up more shots.

I have never said that. Any Westbrook trade I have been in favor of has a solid second option coming back, whether its Horford, Pek, or Gasol. If I wanted a mediocre player to let Durant jack up shots, I'd have suggest start Jackson and let Westbrook come off the bench.

Edit: As well, I was annoyed last night but of course would rather win. As well, if you want to call out anyone for shooting, how about the MVP who's 22/55 (which is worse than the PG)? No blame goes to him which is completely and totally unfair.

Durant was terrible as well, never said he wasn't but people are saying Westbrook doesn't deserve the blame. I haven't seen anyone say Durant doesn't deserve any blame. They both do.

[DontH8TheBrody]

I agree with some of the things Bravenworld has said. I agree with the Iso is ran a lot by the players when other things get shut down.. I just think we need so much more motion and cutting in our offence. We have the most athletic team in the NBA, we need to move and wear teams out.

I also agree this is a very tough matchup for OKC, and like comingbacktousa said I have never once said I want OKC to lose the series.. I said a "small part" in other words the bright side if all went wrong would be the Brooks scenario. I want to feel sorry for ourselves that we got this first round matchup, but any team in the West is a tough out this year and its going to be 3 hard rounds before the finals. Memhis, SA, LAC.. whoever you play, wether it be first or third round, if you are a championship contender, or favourite in many eyes.. find a way.

[Joest2003]

I've been saying for years that Lamb needs more time and experience and no one would agree with me . Now look at us, were struggling to get out of the first round because we dont have a third scoring option which we should have by now if Brooks didn't have Lamb in Tulsa half of his NBA career just to chase the 1 seed that we didn't even get. this guy is a joke I will celebrate the day he gets the boot. The kid is a lottery pick with unlimited potential in a position that's scarce in the NBA right now. He should have 2 full NBA seasons of experience and putting up 20 on nights when we desperately need it like last night. Long story short, cya Brooks dont let the door hit you on your way out.