New frontcourt is significantly better

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Re: New frontcourt is significantly better 

Post#41 » by spearsy23 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:06 am

sipclip wrote:
There is a big difference between being a fantastic defensive coach and having great defensive players. The thunder are a good defensive team because they have had incredible length and athleticism at multiple positions. That credit goes to Presti. Give any coach that type of skill and you will have a good defensive team. Some of you want to give Brooks credit for things that have absolutely nothing to do with him.

He didn't install a better ball movement based offense when the stars aren't there. You still saw tons of isolation ball but it was Reggie Jackson dominating the ball rather than Westbrook or Durant. Once they got back it was once again isolation city. I read a stat the other day that Westbrook this season has the highest usage percentage in nba history this season.

Once again you want to give Brooks credit for what Presti has done when it comes to late picks. Guys like Ibaka and Reggie Jackson were absolute steals in the draft. They aren't good because Brooks developed them. They are good because they are extremely talented. The funniest part about you even trumpeting his ability to develop young players is that they only seem to get an opportunity to truly shine when his hand is finally forced. Ibaka couldn't get in the starting lineup until Presti forced his hand and traded Jeff Green even though Ibaka was clearly outplaying Green during that season.

With Harden he had 3 years to test out a starting wing trio of Westbrook, Harden and Durant but was obsessed with keeping his usual rotation rather than just giving it a shot. He is obsessed with sticking to his rotations and the only time it changes is because of injury. This year he is forcing Roberson into that sg role but the reality is that his lack of shooting ability makes the game tougher on Westbrook and Durant because teams don't have to honor his jumper. That doesn't mean that I don't like Roberson as a prospect because I do but shooters like Morrow and Lamb are a much better fit at the starting sg spot than he is. Every time Lamb gets some consistent minutes he shows a ton of potential but Brooks never sticks with him while a guy like Waiters comes in and does absolutely nothing to earn consistent but is force fed them. Can any of you thunder fans honestly tell me that Dion Waiters is playing better than Jeremy Lamb played last year or earlier this year when injuries forced Brooks to give him minutes?

Four paragraphs. That's all it took to prove you were an outsider who doesn't understand anything about the culture, direction, or vision of the team.

As an aside, there are 3 NBA coaches that have an undeniable case for being better than Brooks. Beyond those three I would take Brooks over every single other coach in the league.
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
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Re: New frontcourt is significantly better 

Post#42 » by hardenASG13 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:08 pm

I'm with you sipclip, and I'm a huge thunder fan. His rotations have held this team back for years. Green over Ibaka, fisher over reggie, Thabo over harden/reggie/lamb, Roberson now over singler/lamb or morrow (I like Roberson, buy he airballs threes all the time. He isn't that amazing on defense to justify having him in the rotation), and Perk over anyone. Fortunately now he has no garbage veterans to blindly play aside from waiters who has stepped it up lately and has been money on that step back. Lots of the so called die hards on here praising brooks, perk and claiming to know the dynamics of this team were the same ones saying that okc was going to miss the playoffs about a month ago haha. A team with a healthy Westbrook or durant does not miss the playoffs. Like isaiha Thomas (possibly spelled wrong) said on nba TV last night, they are the two best players on the west. If they both get back they go from playoffs to favorites.
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Re: New frontcourt is significantly better 

Post#43 » by oeskaer » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:46 pm

hardenASG13 wrote:I'm with you sipclip, and I'm a huge thunder fan. His rotations have held this team back for years. Green over Ibaka, fisher over reggie, Thabo over harden/reggie/lamb,


You clearly have no idea what kind of impact bench players have on the game.

hardenASG13 wrote:Roberson now over singler/lamb or morrow (I like Roberson, buy he airballs threes all the time. He isn't that amazing on defense to justify having him in the rotation),


Stats and eye test don't confirm what you're saying.

Brooks never was a offesive mastermind, but you should always appreciate what he has been doing on the defense.
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Re: New frontcourt is significantly better 

Post#44 » by Podirk » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:46 pm

hardenASG13 wrote:I'm with you sipclip, and I'm a huge thunder fan. His rotations have held this team back for years. Green over Ibaka, fisher over reggie, Thabo over harden/reggie/lamb, Roberson now over singler/lamb or morrow (I like Roberson, buy he airballs threes all the time. He isn't that amazing on defense to justify having him in the rotation), and Perk over anyone. Fortunately now he has no garbage veterans to blindly play aside from waiters who has stepped it up lately and has been money on that step back. Lots of the so called die hards on here praising brooks, perk and claiming to know the dynamics of this team were the same ones saying that okc was going to miss the playoffs about a month ago haha. A team with a healthy Westbrook or durant does not miss the playoffs. Like isaiha Thomas (possibly spelled wrong) said on nba TV last night, they are the two best players on the west. If they both get back they go from playoffs to favorites.


You and sip up might remember Thabo being hurt and Harden starting for a few games...and it failed miserably, inserted Cook I believe to keep rotations consistent.
This is the first I've heard of lamb being beat out by Thabo...cause lamb can't beat out bench sg much less end of the bench energy guys.
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Re: New frontcourt is significantly better 

Post#45 » by spearsy23 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:42 pm

hardenASG13 wrote:I'm with you sipclip, and I'm a huge thunder fan. His rotations have held this team back for years. Green over Ibaka, fisher over reggie, Thabo over harden/reggie/lamb, Roberson now over singler/lamb or morrow (I like Roberson, buy he airballs threes all the time. He isn't that amazing on defense to justify having him in the rotation), and Perk over anyone. Fortunately now he has no garbage veterans to blindly play aside from waiters who has stepped it up lately and has been money on that step back. Lots of the so called die hards on here praising brooks, perk and claiming to know the dynamics of this team were the same ones saying that okc was going to miss the playoffs about a month ago haha. A team with a healthy Westbrook or durant does not miss the playoffs. Like isaiha Thomas (possibly spelled wrong) said on nba TV last night, they are the two best players on the west. If they both get back they go from playoffs to favorites.

Except for Harden, none of the aforementioned players were ready for a bigger role, and Harden isn't really an exception because he was being played off the bench so that minutes were staggered, which was best for the team.
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
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Re: New frontcourt is significantly better 

Post#46 » by Podirk » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:51 pm

hardenASG13 wrote:I'm with you sipclip, and I'm a huge thunder fan. His rotations have held this team back for years. Green over Ibaka, fisher over reggie, Thabo over harden/reggie/lamb, Roberson now over singler/lamb or morrow (I like Roberson, buy he airballs threes all the time. He isn't that amazing on defense to justify having him in the rotation), and Perk over anyone. Fortunately now he has no garbage veterans to blindly play aside from waiters who has stepped it up lately and has been money on that step back. Lots of the so called die hards on here praising brooks, perk and claiming to know the dynamics of this team were the same ones saying that okc was going to miss the playoffs about a month ago haha. A team with a healthy Westbrook or durant does not miss the playoffs. Like isaiha Thomas (possibly spelled wrong) said on nba TV last night, they are the two best players on the west. If they both get back they go from playoffs to favorites.


I was shocked by how down everyone was a month before all star break..many had written them off..I tried to go back to find some of those quotes, but couldn't find the right thread.
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Re: New frontcourt is significantly better 

Post#47 » by spearsy23 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:02 pm

Podirk wrote:
hardenASG13 wrote:I'm with you sipclip, and I'm a huge thunder fan. His rotations have held this team back for years. Green over Ibaka, fisher over reggie, Thabo over harden/reggie/lamb, Roberson now over singler/lamb or morrow (I like Roberson, buy he airballs threes all the time. He isn't that amazing on defense to justify having him in the rotation), and Perk over anyone. Fortunately now he has no garbage veterans to blindly play aside from waiters who has stepped it up lately and has been money on that step back. Lots of the so called die hards on here praising brooks, perk and claiming to know the dynamics of this team were the same ones saying that okc was going to miss the playoffs about a month ago haha. A team with a healthy Westbrook or durant does not miss the playoffs. Like isaiha Thomas (possibly spelled wrong) said on nba TV last night, they are the two best players on the west. If they both get back they go from playoffs to favorites.


I was shocked by how down everyone was a month before all star break..many had written them off..I tried to go back to find some of those quotes, but couldn't find the right thread.

Just go back a few pages in the game thread :lol:
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
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Re: New frontcourt is significantly better 

Post#48 » by sipclip » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:32 pm

I'm sure you guys were saying the same thing about D'Antoni when with the suns and Mike Brown with the cavs. Of course once that great talent went away they were both exposed as average coaches at best. Scott Brooks is no different. Some teams have enough talent to win in spite of their coach and that is what is going on in OKC. It is easy to win games when you have 2 of the best players in the world. It is hard to win championships though when your offense is iso Westbrook and then iso Durant. When teams really clamp down on defense we have seen over and over again that the thunders offensive can stagnate really bad. I think the addition of Kanter is going to help significantly in that department though because unlike Perkins Kanter can actually do things offensively so you aren't playing 4 on 5 at the offensive end.
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Re: New frontcourt is significantly better 

Post#49 » by sipclip » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:39 pm

spearsy23 wrote:
hardenASG13 wrote:I'm with you sipclip, and I'm a huge thunder fan. His rotations have held this team back for years. Green over Ibaka, fisher over reggie, Thabo over harden/reggie/lamb, Roberson now over singler/lamb or morrow (I like Roberson, buy he airballs threes all the time. He isn't that amazing on defense to justify having him in the rotation), and Perk over anyone. Fortunately now he has no garbage veterans to blindly play aside from waiters who has stepped it up lately and has been money on that step back. Lots of the so called die hards on here praising brooks, perk and claiming to know the dynamics of this team were the same ones saying that okc was going to miss the playoffs about a month ago haha. A team with a healthy Westbrook or durant does not miss the playoffs. Like isaiha Thomas (possibly spelled wrong) said on nba TV last night, they are the two best players on the west. If they both get back they go from playoffs to favorites.

Except for Harden, none of the aforementioned players were ready for a bigger role, and Harden isn't really an exception because he was being played off the bench so that minutes were staggered, which was best for the team.


You don't actually believe that? All of the guys were ready for a bigger role and when finally given the opportunity took that role and thrived. The only thing Brooks was doing is holding them back. He is doing the same thing with Lamb right now. Give Lamb the same opportunity that Roberson and Waiters have been given and the guy will thrive but instead he doesn't see a sliver of consistent minutes and that is no way for a talented young sg to develop. The kid is just rotting on the bench right now when he could be helping the thunder significantly.
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Re: New frontcourt is significantly better 

Post#50 » by Thunderhead » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:43 pm

sipclip wrote:

He sure did a great job of managing Reggie Jackson's ego. Who exactly are these ego's that he has had to manage? Lucky for him he has had some real class acts leading this team in Durant and Westbrook.

There is a big difference between being a fantastic defensive coach and having great defensive players. The thunder are a good defensive team because they have had incredible length and athleticism at multiple positions. That credit goes to Presti. Give any coach that type of skill and you will have a good defensive team. Some of you want to give Brooks credit for things that have absolutely nothing to do with him.

He didn't install a better ball movement based offense when the stars aren't there. You still saw tons of isolation ball but it was Reggie Jackson dominating the ball rather than Westbrook or Durant. Once they got back it was once again isolation city. I read a stat the other day that Westbrook this season has the highest usage percentage in nba history this season.

Once again you want to give Brooks credit for what Presti has done when it comes to late picks. Guys like Ibaka and Reggie Jackson were absolute steals in the draft. They aren't good because Brooks developed them. They are good because they are extremely talented. The funniest part about you even trumpeting his ability to develop young players is that they only seem to get an opportunity to truly shine when his hand is finally forced. Ibaka couldn't get in the starting lineup until Presti forced his hand and traded Jeff Green even though Ibaka was clearly outplaying Green during that season.

With Harden he had 3 years to test out a starting wing trio of Westbrook, Harden and Durant but was obsessed with keeping his usual rotation rather than just giving it a shot. He is obsessed with sticking to his rotations and the only time it changes is because of injury. This year he is forcing Roberson into that sg role but the reality is that his lack of shooting ability makes the game tougher on Westbrook and Durant because teams don't have to honor his jumper. That doesn't mean that I don't like Roberson as a prospect because I do but shooters like Morrow and Lamb are a much better fit at the starting sg spot than he is. Every time Lamb gets some consistent minutes he shows a ton of potential but Brooks never sticks with him while a guy like Waiters comes in and does absolutely nothing to earn consistent but is force fed them. Can any of you thunder fans honestly tell me that Dion Waiters is playing better than Jeremy Lamb played last year or earlier this year when injuries forced Brooks to give him minutes?

The only reason Steven Adams finally was given some heavy minutes last year was because Perkins got hurt. Perkins was playing like total garbage last and should have been benched early in the season yet he continued to start.

The thunder have the most talented team in the nba and the pieces to build a dynasty but I don't believe that Brooks is the coach to max this talent. I strongly believe the thunder will win a title within the next 2yrs because you are that damn talented but with an above average coach I think the thunder could win 4 or 5 championships in a row. Especially with the addition of Kanter. He was that missing piece that gives you a legit inside presence to compliment not only Durant and Westbrook but he makes the game so much easier for Ibaka. Ibaka looks incredible next to Kanter.



Take it by paragraph


A. Reggie is a head case. KD and Russ have not been leaders up to this past year or two, most of the good work was done before you noticed the Thunder.

B. You don't watch Thunder much. Thunder def came from Ron Adams, when he was with the team in 2010 or 11, I don't recall which , and the schemes have remained the same since, with a lot of credit to this terrible basketball player named Perk, who learned his defense from Thibodeau at Boston, along with Ron Adams. Go to 2012 WCF, and there was many defensive adjustments that turned that series, and it had nothing to do with just sending KD, Russ, and Harden out on the court. Here, since you wasting my time, go read this

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/how-d ... the-spurs/


C. Ya think Russ has high usage because KD has been injured and he's had to carry a team with not near as much talent as you think. You haven't watched this team play. I don't know where all this talent is , you say is there. Why do you think Presti just brought in four new players ?

Thunder have been running set plays for a long time, no one notices, or wants to notice. They've been running Horns since 2011, I can show you YouTube vids of plays they run. They are not complex as other teams, because the talent level doesn't demand that. Who would want to turn KD into Kyle Korver ? If you got KD, you use him properly, and if that means ISO , then so be it. Cause he's best in the world at it.

Bad coaching , would be forcing KD into some restrictive system, just so the coach can take personal credit for the results. Sadly, we see this too much in college basketball, where the coach wants to control the entire game.

It takes a bigger coach, to realize what talent he has, and then let them play.

D. In Reggies's rookie year, he could not bring the the ball up the court. Really. It was TO city. Thunder fans were all over Presti for drafting a PG who had no handle. You don't pay attention. You don't know. Even KD and Russ were developed, I know , I watched it , in person.

E. Harden would not work as a starter. It was tried, you must not have been watching, shocking as that sounds. In Jan 2011, I think, Thabo was injured. They moved Harden to the starter role for like 7 games or so, and it went terrible. Everybody was anxious for Thabo to return and Harden go back to six man.

Harden was extremely efficient in his six man role, he led the league in true shooting percentage, that's what made it work.

And even all that said, although Thabo started, Harden closed games on the court with KD and Russ. It did not matter who started, as much as who finished. You must not have been watching.

Not even gonna get into why Roberson starts, it seems this needs a sticky , or something, so its not constantly having to be repeated. He's the complement to KD.

F. Perk vrs Adams ..... Adams did not know where to be on the court, he was a pure rookie with better athletic skills, but no experience. He was not going to replace the defensive leader of this team as a raw rookie.

G. Thunder have the most talented team in the NBA ? Oh yeah, then again, why Presti make these big moves ?

You vastly over rate the roster that started this season. And it was also a roster dominated by rookie contracts, young inconsistent players, who had still a lot to learn.
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Re: New frontcourt is significantly better 

Post#51 » by spearsy23 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:43 pm

sipclip wrote:
spearsy23 wrote:
hardenASG13 wrote:I'm with you sipclip, and I'm a huge thunder fan. His rotations have held this team back for years. Green over Ibaka, fisher over reggie, Thabo over harden/reggie/lamb, Roberson now over singler/lamb or morrow (I like Roberson, buy he airballs threes all the time. He isn't that amazing on defense to justify having him in the rotation), and Perk over anyone. Fortunately now he has no garbage veterans to blindly play aside from waiters who has stepped it up lately and has been money on that step back. Lots of the so called die hards on here praising brooks, perk and claiming to know the dynamics of this team were the same ones saying that okc was going to miss the playoffs about a month ago haha. A team with a healthy Westbrook or durant does not miss the playoffs. Like isaiha Thomas (possibly spelled wrong) said on nba TV last night, they are the two best players on the west. If they both get back they go from playoffs to favorites.

Except for Harden, none of the aforementioned players were ready for a bigger role, and Harden isn't really an exception because he was being played off the bench so that minutes were staggered, which was best for the team.


You don't actually believe that? All of the guys were ready for a bigger role and when finally given the opportunity took that role and thrived. The only thing Brooks was doing is holding them back. He is doing the same thing with Lamb right now. Give Lamb the same opportunity that Roberson and Waiters have been given and the guy will thrive but instead he doesn't see a sliver of consistent minutes and that is no way for a talented young sg to develop. The kid is just rotting on the bench right now when he could be helping the thunder significantly.

Could it be that all of those guys thrived because they were given a role when they were ready?

Thinking Lamb could help the team right now means you haven't been watching him.
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
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Re: New frontcourt is significantly better 

Post#52 » by Podirk » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:55 pm

Thunderhead wrote:
sipclip wrote:

He sure did a great job of managing Reggie Jackson's ego. Who exactly are these ego's that he has had to manage? Lucky for him he has had some real class acts leading this team in Durant and Westbrook.

There is a big difference between being a fantastic defensive coach and having great defensive players. The thunder are a good defensive team because they have had incredible length and athleticism at multiple positions. That credit goes to Presti. Give any coach that type of skill and you will have a good defensive team. Some of you want to give Brooks credit for things that have absolutely nothing to do with him.

He didn't install a better ball movement based offense when the stars aren't there. You still saw tons of isolation ball but it was Reggie Jackson dominating the ball rather than Westbrook or Durant. Once they got back it was once again isolation city. I read a stat the other day that Westbrook this season has the highest usage percentage in nba history this season.

Once again you want to give Brooks credit for what Presti has done when it comes to late picks. Guys like Ibaka and Reggie Jackson were absolute steals in the draft. They aren't good because Brooks developed them. They are good because they are extremely talented. The funniest part about you even trumpeting his ability to develop young players is that they only seem to get an opportunity to truly shine when his hand is finally forced. Ibaka couldn't get in the starting lineup until Presti forced his hand and traded Jeff Green even though Ibaka was clearly outplaying Green during that season.

With Harden he had 3 years to test out a starting wing trio of Westbrook, Harden and Durant but was obsessed with keeping his usual rotation rather than just giving it a shot. He is obsessed with sticking to his rotations and the only time it changes is because of injury. This year he is forcing Roberson into that sg role but the reality is that his lack of shooting ability makes the game tougher on Westbrook and Durant because teams don't have to honor his jumper. That doesn't mean that I don't like Roberson as a prospect because I do but shooters like Morrow and Lamb are a much better fit at the starting sg spot than he is. Every time Lamb gets some consistent minutes he shows a ton of potential but Brooks never sticks with him while a guy like Waiters comes in and does absolutely nothing to earn consistent but is force fed them. Can any of you thunder fans honestly tell me that Dion Waiters is playing better than Jeremy Lamb played last year or earlier this year when injuries forced Brooks to give him minutes?

The only reason Steven Adams finally was given some heavy minutes last year was because Perkins got hurt. Perkins was playing like total garbage last and should have been benched early in the season yet he continued to start.

The thunder have the most talented team in the nba and the pieces to build a dynasty but I don't believe that Brooks is the coach to max this talent. I strongly believe the thunder will win a title within the next 2yrs because you are that damn talented but with an above average coach I think the thunder could win 4 or 5 championships in a row. Especially with the addition of Kanter. He was that missing piece that gives you a legit inside presence to compliment not only Durant and Westbrook but he makes the game so much easier for Ibaka. Ibaka looks incredible next to Kanter.



Take it by paragraph


A. Reggie is a head case. KD and Russ have not been leaders up to this past year or two, most of the good work was done before you noticed the Thunder.

B. You don't watch Thunder much. Thunder def came from Ron Adams, when he was with the team in 2010 or 11, I don't recall which , and the schemes have remained the same since, with a lot of credit to this terrible basketball player named Perk, who learned his defense from Thibodeau at Boston, along with Ron Adams. Go to 2012 WCF, and there was many defensive adjustments that turned that series, and it had nothing to do with just sending KD, Russ, and Harden out on the court. Here, since you wasting my time, go read this

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/how-d ... the-spurs/


C. Ya think Russ has high usage because KD has been injured and he's had to carry a team with not near as much talent as you think. You haven't watched this team play. I don't know where all this talent is , you say is there. Why do you think Presti just brought in four new players ?

Thunder have been running set plays for a long time, no one notices, or wants to notice. They've been running Horns since 2011, I can show you YouTube vids of plays they run. They are not complex as other teams, because the talent level doesn't demand that. Who would want to turn KD into Kyle Korver ? If you got KD, you use him properly, and if that means ISO , then so be it. Cause he's best in the world at it.

Bad coaching , would be forcing KD into some restrictive system, just so the coach can take personal credit for the results. Sadly, we see this too much in college basketball, where the coach wants to control the entire game.

It takes a bigger coach, to realize what talent he has, and then let them play.

D. In Reggies's rookie year, he could not bring the the ball up the court. Really. It was TO city. Thunder fans were all over Presti for drafting a PG who had no handle. You don't pay attention. You don't know. Even KD and Russ were developed, I know , I watched it , in person.

E. Harden would not work as a starter. It was tried, you must not have been watching, shocking as that sounds. In Jan 2011, I think, Thabo was injured. They moved Harden to the starter role for like 7 games or so, and it went terrible. Everybody was anxious for Thabo to return and Harden go back to six man.

Harden was extremely efficient in his six man role, he led the league in true shooting percentage, that's what made it work.

And even all that said, although Thabo started, Harden closed games on the court with KD and Russ. It did not matter who started, as much as who finished. You must not have been watching.

Not even gonna get into why Roberson starts, it seems this needs a sticky , or something, so its not constantly having to be repeated. He's the complement to KD.

F. Perk vrs Adams ..... Adams did not know where to be on the court, he was a pure rookie with better athletic skills, but no experience. He was not going to replace the defensive leader of this team as a raw rookie.

G. Thunder have the most talented team in the NBA ? Oh yeah, then again, why Presti make these big moves ?

You vastly over rate the roster that started this season. And it was also a roster dominated by rookie contracts, young inconsistent players, who had still a lot to learn.



D and E above, spot on. People who don't know disagree, but for those that were paying attention...spot on.
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Re: New frontcourt is significantly better 

Post#53 » by bondom34 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:23 pm

sipclip wrote:I'm sure you guys were saying the same thing about D'Antoni when with the suns and Mike Brown with the cavs. Of course once that great talent went away they were both exposed as average coaches at best. Scott Brooks is no different. Some teams have enough talent to win in spite of their coach and that is what is going on in OKC. It is easy to win games when you have 2 of the best players in the world. It is hard to win championships though when your offense is iso Westbrook and then iso Durant. When teams really clamp down on defense we have seen over and over again that the thunders offensive can stagnate really bad. I think the addition of Kanter is going to help significantly in that department though because unlike Perkins Kanter can actually do things offensively so you aren't playing 4 on 5 at the offensive end.

One great talent did go away. Most of last year Russ was out, this year KD. The only time they ever struggled for a long stretch was when both were out and he had a roster full of backups and fringe NBA players. Even then he had that team in nearly every game. They held Houston to sixty some points and nearly won, I think were only blown out once. He's had a team this season with next to zero continuity, missing one or two top ten players at almost all times. Since either one has been healthy they've won about 70 percent of their games. I have no idea why Roberson shouldn't start at this point, especially for Lamb who's shown a limited ability to play semi decent basketball in garbage time. Adams wasn't ready and nearly fouled out of most games last season in role player minutes. As spearsy said there are 3 guys I take over Brooks for sure, then I don't know.
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Re: New frontcourt is significantly better 

Post#54 » by Thunderhead » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:28 pm

I just fixed the link, to the Sebastian Pruiti breakdown of 2012 WCF defensive adjustments ( btw, Pruiti has worked for the Thunder since he was hired after that appeared )

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/how-d ... the-spurs/
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Re: New frontcourt is significantly better 

Post#55 » by Thunderhead » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:29 pm

Heck, most of the message board critics of Brooks' adjustments or lack there of, would not know one, if they saw it.
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Re: New frontcourt is significantly better 

Post#56 » by Podirk » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:38 pm

Thunderhead wrote:I just fixed the link, to the Sebastian Pruiti breakdown of 2012 WCF defensive adjustments ( btw, Pruiti has worked for the Thunder since he was hired after that appeared )

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/how-d ... the-spurs/


Pruiti has went off the grid...no more tweets...nothing. I enjoyed his work and hope he moves up quick through the Thunder FO or whereever he is.
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Re: New frontcourt is significantly better 

Post#57 » by bbms » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:56 pm

I think you guys are doing a great job at describing Thunder's history, but there are a lot of issues that were reduced to non-issues here. For example on the part "Harden would not work as a starter". The fact the Thunder's offensive scheme lacks in craftiness, become non-issue on the times where Harden started.

The thing wasn't Harden starting per se, but Harden playing with Westbrook. Usually they nullified each other. Very few times I saw chemistry and interplay between them. One time was against Dallas in 2011. Westbrook did a fine job slashing and attacking off the ball like a mini Wade off from Harden. Things like these never consistent happened, and when they were both playing together, one stood off the other in a quite stagnant way, or even one over-dominating the ball.

These issues are not from Harden and Westbrook. These issues come just from the lack of creative thinking and/or execution of whatever Brooks thinks a playbook is. The coexistence of two ball-handling capable guards is the foundation of European basketball. Why'd someone never study that? Spurs were successful at implementing that, Nuggets always did good on the backcourt with this kind of setups. Specially in the 2011/12 season, when Sefonolsha was having an absolute dreadful season and the Thunder starting lineup was being net negative (iirc)?

Thunder lacks heavily in creative thinking. Brooks is the average coach with a charismatic persona. Hit one or two coaching chops but mishandle tens of hundreds of minutes of rotations per season. This is not a matter of "name betters". Please that's the most infantile fallacy ever. It's not about firing Brooks anymore. We won't fire anyone from here. It's just about taking a deeper look into the Thunder's record.
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Re: New frontcourt is significantly better 

Post#58 » by Thunderhead » Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:07 pm

How bout they were issues from having young players ................... and I just posted a series of videos, that sort've contradicts what your saying.

Brooks did not want to, nor could, put too much on those young players plates. That gets completely over looked. Having years in the league , means something in the NBA.

Look at how Augustin seems to effortlessly integrate into a new team, that's cause he's a vet.

The Hawks right now, are a team of veteran players who know how to play the game, that's a part of why they are so good at what the do ( along with having every player on the team, having the ability to hit a jump shot ) .
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Re: New frontcourt is significantly better 

Post#59 » by Devilanche » Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:08 pm

sipclip wrote:With Harden he had 3 years to test out a starting wing trio of Westbrook, Harden and Durant but was obsessed with keeping his usual rotation rather than just giving it a shot. He is obsessed with sticking to his rotations and the only time it changes is because of injury. This year he is forcing Roberson into that sg role but the reality is that his lack of shooting ability makes the game tougher on Westbrook and Durant because teams don't have to honor his jumper. That doesn't mean that I don't like Roberson as a prospect because I do but shooters like Morrow and Lamb are a much better fit at the starting sg spot than he is. Every time Lamb gets some consistent minutes he shows a ton of potential but Brooks never sticks with him while a guy like Waiters comes in and does absolutely nothing to earn consistent but is force fed them. Can any of you thunder fans honestly tell me that Dion Waiters is playing better than Jeremy Lamb played last year or earlier this year when injuries forced Brooks to give him minutes?

1st year harden wasn't that good at all
2nd year harden was better
3rd year harden should have won the starting job but Durant/Harden was still a weak defensive pairing. (I don't recall fully but Durant wasn't a passable defender then) Edit: I would have started him during the 3rd season though with the benefit of hindsight.

I would rather suffer through seeing waiters taking 6-8 a shot a game in the playoffs rather than Lamb being abused defensively in his minutes in the playoffs. Best case scenario is Morrow get more minutes and we find a way to make Roberson more effective on offense. Wasn't there stats showing him improving as a 3pt shooter? Admittedly bar was really low.
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Re: New frontcourt is significantly better 

Post#60 » by Dry Fly » Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:09 pm

I came here looking for your guy's take on Kanter but I see this has turned into a coach debate. As an outsider looking in, I wouldn't say Brooks is a bad coach but as a long time Jazz fan I can tell you that you aren't going to win a title by default even with 2 HoF players.

With that said, with a healthy team I do like you guys in the west minus GS right now. Kanter could be a difference maker but Brooks needs to put the hammer down on him defensively.

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