Around The NBA 2015-2016

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Re: Around The NBA 2015-2016 

Post#21 » by Kizz Fastfists » Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:40 pm

bondom34 wrote:I'm in a debate over Dray Green being a top 5-10 player. Better than Westbrook....I accept that I'm biased, but man there's no basis there for me.


He's a very good 3&D player. He is not a star player and could not lead a team. He's a top tier role player. He is similar to a Danny Green. He is very valuable to the right team where he fills that need. He's not someone that Philly would pursue to take their young team to the playoffs. He's a lesser version of Kawhi Leonard.

He's not in the same category as LeBron, Curry, Russ, KD, Harden, Davis, CP3, Aldridge, Lillard, Bosh, etc., etc. Take Green away from Golden State and they are still a top team. Take Curry away and they struggle to make the playoffs.
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Re: Around The NBA 2015-2016 

Post#22 » by bondom34 » Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:41 pm

Kizz Fastfists wrote:
bondom34 wrote:I'm in a debate over Dray Green being a top 5-10 player. Better than Westbrook....I accept that I'm biased, but man there's no basis there for me.


He's a very good 3&D player. He is not a star player and could not lead a team. He's a top tier role player. He is similar to a Danny Green. He is very valuable to the right team where he fills that need. He's not someone that Philly would pursue to take their young team to the playoffs. He's a lesser version of Kawhi Leonard.

He's not in the same category as LeBron, Curry, Russ, KD, Harden, Davis, CP3, Aldridge, Lillard, Bosh, etc., etc. Take Green away from Golden State and they are still a top team. Take Curry away and they struggle to make the playoffs.

Agree, but here I am, debating this with people, basically because RAPM says so.
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Re: Around The NBA 2015-2016 

Post#23 » by spearsy23 » Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:03 pm

bondom34 wrote:
Kizz Fastfists wrote:
bondom34 wrote:I'm in a debate over Dray Green being a top 5-10 player. Better than Westbrook....I accept that I'm biased, but man there's no basis there for me.


He's a very good 3&D player. He is not a star player and could not lead a team. He's a top tier role player. He is similar to a Danny Green. He is very valuable to the right team where he fills that need. He's not someone that Philly would pursue to take their young team to the playoffs. He's a lesser version of Kawhi Leonard.

He's not in the same category as LeBron, Curry, Russ, KD, Harden, Davis, CP3, Aldridge, Lillard, Bosh, etc., etc. Take Green away from Golden State and they are still a top team. Take Curry away and they struggle to make the playoffs.

Agree, but here I am, debating this with people, basically because RAPM says so.

He was literally 4 spots ahead of Russ in one single stat... Wut?
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
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Re: Around The NBA 2015-2016 

Post#24 » by tleikheen » Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:55 pm

Take Green away from Golden State and they are still a top team.


Take Green away and Golden State doesn't win the NBA Championsip.....His defense,passing as a point PF,rebounding and leading the break,and playing with open passion made him Golden States 3rd best player and the catalyst in GS smallball attack
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Re: Around The NBA 2015-2016 

Post#25 » by bondom34 » Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:43 pm

spearsy23 wrote:
bondom34 wrote:
Kizz Fastfists wrote:
He's a very good 3&D player. He is not a star player and could not lead a team. He's a top tier role player. He is similar to a Danny Green. He is very valuable to the right team where he fills that need. He's not someone that Philly would pursue to take their young team to the playoffs. He's a lesser version of Kawhi Leonard.

He's not in the same category as LeBron, Curry, Russ, KD, Harden, Davis, CP3, Aldridge, Lillard, Bosh, etc., etc. Take Green away from Golden State and they are still a top team. Take Curry away and they struggle to make the playoffs.

Agree, but here I am, debating this with people, basically because RAPM says so.

He was literally 4 spots ahead of Russ in one single stat... Wut?

NPI RAPM. Russ is like 134th in the league. Yep, so he wasn't as impactful.
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Re: Around The NBA 2015-2016 

Post#26 » by spearsy23 » Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:43 pm

tleikheen wrote:
Take Green away from Golden State and they are still a top team.


Take Green away and Golden State doesn't win the NBA Championsip.....His defense,passing as a point PF,rebounding and leading the break,and playing with open passion made him Golden States 3rd best player and the catalyst in GS smallball attack

Which has no bearing on what was said.
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
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Re: Around The NBA 2015-2016 

Post#27 » by KD35Brah » Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:50 pm

Kizz Fastfists wrote:
bondom34 wrote:I'm in a debate over Dray Green being a top 5-10 player. Better than Westbrook....I accept that I'm biased, but man there's no basis there for me.


Take Green away from Golden State and they are still a top team.
They would be a top team, but they won't be the historical team they were this season.

Green is one of the most impactful players in the entire league. Green off of GSW would be a major blow.
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Re: Around The NBA 2015-2016 

Post#28 » by bondom34 » Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:52 pm

KD35Brah wrote:
Kizz Fastfists wrote:
bondom34 wrote:I'm in a debate over Dray Green being a top 5-10 player. Better than Westbrook....I accept that I'm biased, but man there's no basis there for me.


Take Green away from Golden State and they are still a top team.
They would be a top team, but they won't be the historical team they were this season.

Green is one of the most impactful players in the entire league. Green off of GSW would be a major blow.

I don't see him top 10 in the league though. I think he's in a perfect spot for his role, but that's it.
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Re: Around The NBA 2015-2016 

Post#29 » by KD35Brah » Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:02 pm

bondom34 wrote:
KD35Brah wrote:
Kizz Fastfists wrote:
Take Green away from Golden State and they are still a top team.
They would be a top team, but they won't be the historical team they were this season.

Green is one of the most impactful players in the entire league. Green off of GSW would be a major blow.

I don't see him top 10 in the league though. I think he's in a perfect spot for his role, but that's it.

I don't really care where he is ranked.

His impact is top 10 worthy without a doubt, probably top 7.
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Re: Around The NBA 2015-2016 

Post#30 » by bondom34 » Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:05 pm

KD35Brah wrote:
bondom34 wrote:
KD35Brah wrote:They would be a top team, but they won't be the historical team they were this season.

Green is one of the most impactful players in the entire league. Green off of GSW would be a major blow.

I don't see him top 10 in the league though. I think he's in a perfect spot for his role, but that's it.

I don't really care where he is ranked.

His impact is top 10 worthy without a doubt, probably top 7.

Really?
Curry
Harden
Lebron
CP
Russ
Davis
Kawhi


All pretty clearly ahead to me. Then Griffin, LMA, Gasol, Bogut, Lillard, Wall, Cousins, and probably others I'd take over him. He's a piece to me, not a centerpiece.
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Re: Around The NBA 2015-2016 

Post#31 » by kd 35 » Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:12 pm

bondom34 wrote:
KD35Brah wrote:
bondom34 wrote:I don't see him top 10 in the league though. I think he's in a perfect spot for his role, but that's it.

I don't really care where he is ranked.

His impact is top 10 worthy without a doubt, probably top 7.

Really?
Curry
Harden
Lebron
CP
Russ
Davis
Kawhi


All pretty clearly ahead to me. Then Griffin, LMA, Gasol, Bogut, Lillard, Wall, Cousins, and probably others I'd take over him. He's a piece to me, not a centerpiece.


Don't forget KD. :P
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Re: Around The NBA 2015-2016 

Post#32 » by bondom34 » Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:17 pm

kd 35 wrote:
bondom34 wrote:
KD35Brah wrote:I don't really care where he is ranked.

His impact is top 10 worthy without a doubt, probably top 7.

Really?
Curry
Harden
Lebron
CP
Russ
Davis
Kawhi


All pretty clearly ahead to me. Then Griffin, LMA, Gasol, Bogut, Lillard, Wall, Cousins, and probably others I'd take over him. He's a piece to me, not a centerpiece.


Don't forget KD. :P

True, but meant this season.
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Re: Around The NBA 2015-2016 

Post#33 » by KD35Brah » Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:33 pm

bondom34 wrote:
KD35Brah wrote:
bondom34 wrote:I don't see him top 10 in the league though. I think he's in a perfect spot for his role, but that's it.

I don't really care where he is ranked.

His impact is top 10 worthy without a doubt, probably top 7.

Really?
Curry
Harden
Lebron
CP
Russ
Davis
Kawhi


All pretty clearly ahead to me. Then Griffin, LMA, Gasol, Bogut, Lillard, Wall, Cousins, and probably others I'd take over him. He's a piece to me, not a centerpiece.
If a great team was already established Green would have more impact than Russ and Kawhi. He is that good.

Him and Curry are the first players ever to be in the +1000 season +/- Club.

When you have a PF playing DPOY worthy defense(2-5 effectively), run an offense off of PnR passes, spread the floor, and rebound you will have one of the most impactful players in the league. He plays off his stars perfectly as well. Not many players can provide those set of skills.

His ability to stretch the floor as a 4 and 5 while anchoring the league's best defense, and run the offense through PnR dump offs is invaluable to ANY already established team.
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Re: Around The NBA 2015-2016 

Post#34 » by bondom34 » Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:35 pm

KD35Brah wrote:
bondom34 wrote:
KD35Brah wrote:I don't really care where he is ranked.

His impact is top 10 worthy without a doubt, probably top 7.

Really?
Curry
Harden
Lebron
CP
Russ
Davis
Kawhi


All pretty clearly ahead to me. Then Griffin, LMA, Gasol, Bogut, Lillard, Wall, Cousins, and probably others I'd take over him. He's a piece to me, not a centerpiece.
If a great team was already established Green would have more impact than Russ and Kawhi. He is that good.

Him and Curry are the first players ever to be in the +1000 season +/- Club.

When you have a PF playing DPOY worthy defense(2-5 effectively), run an offense off of PnR passes, spread the floor, and rebound you will have one of the most impactful players in the league. He plays off his stars perfectly as well. Not many players can provide those set of skills.

His ability to stretch the floor as a 4 and 5 while anchoring the league's best defense, and run the offense through PnR dump offs is invaluable to ANY already established team.

Oh, to a team he fits sure, but my point is on my view of impact. You move him GSW is still good, you move Russ, OKC sucks. I see the second as more of an impact. The first is more due to fit.
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Re: Around The NBA 2015-2016 

Post#35 » by kd 35 » Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:36 pm

bondom34 wrote:
kd 35 wrote:
bondom34 wrote:Really?
Curry
Harden
Lebron
CP
Russ
Davis
Kawhi


All pretty clearly ahead to me. Then Griffin, LMA, Gasol, Bogut, Lillard, Wall, Cousins, and probably others I'd take over him. He's a piece to me, not a centerpiece.


Don't forget KD. :P

True, but meant this season.


I thought maybe that was the case. Just wanted to make sure. :)

I agree with you though, I see Draymond as more of a glue guy and not an elite talent. He works as hard as anyone though. I think he's somewhat of an over-achiever based on his natural abilities. It'll be interesting to see what he gets paid.
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Re: Around The NBA 2015-2016 

Post#36 » by KD35Brah » Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:51 pm

bondom34 wrote:
KD35Brah wrote:
bondom34 wrote:Really?
Curry
Harden
Lebron
CP
Russ
Davis
Kawhi


All pretty clearly ahead to me. Then Griffin, LMA, Gasol, Bogut, Lillard, Wall, Cousins, and probably others I'd take over him. He's a piece to me, not a centerpiece.
If a great team was already established Green would have more impact than Russ and Kawhi. He is that good.

Him and Curry are the first players ever to be in the +1000 season +/- Club.

When you have a PF playing DPOY worthy defense(2-5 effectively), run an offense off of PnR passes, spread the floor, and rebound you will have one of the most impactful players in the league. He plays off his stars perfectly as well. Not many players can provide those set of skills.

His ability to stretch the floor as a 4 and 5 while anchoring the league's best defense, and run the offense through PnR dump offs is invaluable to ANY already established team.

Oh, to a team he fits sure, but my point is on my view of impact. You move him GSW is still good, you move Russ, OKC sucks. I see the second as more of an impact. The first is more due to fit.

This isn't a fair comparison to begin with.

Green is the ideal fit on the Warriors and is the 2nd most important player on the team. Without him the team is nowhere near a 10+ SRS historical team.

Russ obviously has a huge impact on the team. But his impact isn't based on fit, he IS the team along with Durant. He has star-based impact, which is why he is seen as a top 10 player. In Green's case he isn't a star so he can't put the team on his back and make a poor team into a good one. But he can make a good team into a great teeam(or historically great) without stepping on the toes of the stars that are already there.

Maybe none of this makes sense, but here is a question that basically expresses what i really mean.

A team has KD and Westbrook already on the team and you are in need a PF, would you take Aldridge or Green?
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Re: Around The NBA 2015-2016 

Post#37 » by Kizz Fastfists » Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:54 pm

No one is saying that Green isn't a good player and that his role for Golden State wasn't very important for their season. However, without him they are still a top 4 team in the West. If you put Green on the 76ers he doesn't carry them to the playoffs. If you put someone like Russ, Curry, LeBron, KD, Davis or Harden on the 76ers they would carry them to the playoffs next year.

All the things that Green is able to do for the Warriors are because of the players around him. Without the defense having to focus on Curry, Klay and others Green doesn't get the looks he does. The same be said for Ibaka's 3pt looks and many other good players who benefit from playing next to great players. Green wouldn't get to show his defensive flexibility on the 76ers because Noel and Embiid would be at the 5. He would still have an impact with his defense against the opposing team's best wing, but he wouldn't be able to create offense for a team like the 76ers with the guys they would have around him. It's like Dennis Rodman with the Bulls. He was VERY good at his role on that team, but he wasn't going to go carry another team to the playoffs. Guys like Rodman, Green and other role players like them are very valuable to their team because of the specific role they can perform. However, they are much less valuable to a bad team because they can't make a bad team good, but they can make a good team great.
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Re: Around The NBA 2015-2016 

Post#38 » by bondom34 » Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:42 pm

KD35Brah wrote:
bondom34 wrote:
KD35Brah wrote:If a great team was already established Green would have more impact than Russ and Kawhi. He is that good.

Him and Curry are the first players ever to be in the +1000 season +/- Club.

When you have a PF playing DPOY worthy defense(2-5 effectively), run an offense off of PnR passes, spread the floor, and rebound you will have one of the most impactful players in the league. He plays off his stars perfectly as well. Not many players can provide those set of skills.

His ability to stretch the floor as a 4 and 5 while anchoring the league's best defense, and run the offense through PnR dump offs is invaluable to ANY already established team.

Oh, to a team he fits sure, but my point is on my view of impact. You move him GSW is still good, you move Russ, OKC sucks. I see the second as more of an impact. The first is more due to fit.

This isn't a fair comparison to begin with.

Green is the ideal fit on the Warriors and is the 2nd most important player on the team. Without him the team is nowhere near a 10+ SRS historical team.

Russ obviously has a huge impact on the team. But his impact isn't based on fit, he IS the team along with Durant. He has star-based impact, which is why he is seen as a top 10 player. In Green's case he isn't a star so he can't put the team on his back and make a poor team into a good one. But he can make a good team into a great teeam(or historically great) without stepping on the toes of the stars that are already there.

Maybe none of this makes sense, but here is a question that basically expresses what i really mean.

A team has KD and Westbrook already on the team and you are in need a PF, would you take Aldridge or Green?

Basically what Kizz said. I'm doing the POY rankings and I'm having a tough time seeing Green go ahead of the others mentioned. To me he doesn't belong ahead of them for a player of the year.
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Re: Around The NBA 2015-2016 

Post#39 » by tleikheen » Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:21 am

Which has no bearing on what was said.


It wasnt your quote I responded too ,for you say it has no bearing what i said so dismissively ,makes me think your clueless to who i responded too......here's more and others responded too it too

Green is one of the most impactful players in the entire league. Green off of GSW would be a major blow.


When you have a PF playing DPOY worthy defense(2-5 effectively), run an offense off of PnR passes, spread the floor, and rebound you will have one of the most impactful players in the league. He plays off his stars perfectly as well. Not many players can provide those set of skills.


save your dismissive talk to someone else or don't respond to my responses
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Re: Around The NBA 2015-2016 

Post#40 » by tleikheen » Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:38 am

as far as Green's play this year ...being on the right team maximized his talents and opened the eyes of a lot of teams that undoubtedly will try to copy.......but you have to play to your teams strengths

guys want to try making OKC into a defensive team when they can,when healthy lead the NBA in scoring while being a dominant rebounding team as well......pairing up a young dominant offensive Center that can put up 20 point/15 rebound games with the outside scoring of Westbrook and Durant make OKC even more a top scoring team
I respected Golden States team and game but I saw enough to see Cleveland was dominant in rebounding against them and their not as good as OKC in rebounding ...Golden State is Champion ,but truth be told ,they were lucky the teams they beat had key injured players that helped them out

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