Draft night: How'd we do?

[bondom34]

Not really a big fan of Payne, kinda strange his stock went up so much before the draft.

My main gripes is that he has a weak combination of size/athleticism and he also played in an awful conference. His numbers need to be taken with a grain of salt as he really did face a bunch of terrible schools.

I have a hard time seeing Payne beating guys off the dribble or getting a good shot off. Looks like he'll struggle to score. I do think he is a very good passer and his handles look good, so it's reasonable he could be a 3rd guard. Not sure how he'll translate defensively, he's pretty small and not particularly quick for his size so he might get beat up there. I think Delon Wright was the best PG left after Mudiay was taken.


I think OKC should have took a wing (Oubre, , RHJ or maybe a back up big like Portis.)

I'm not a big fan of Payne either. I think Presti will regret it if he was the one that promised Payne he would pick him if he was still on the board. If Presti was convinced our biggest need was a future PG, he should have gone with the PG that beat #2 seed Virginia and #1 seed Duke and won the ACC tourney vs the kid that couldn't beat Belmont and watched the NCAA tourney from home. Jerian Grant's draft stock didn't go any higher because he was too old?!? When did 22 become old? Grant was putting up numbers that rivaled Payne's in his sophomore season and doing it at a school playing out of conference schools that were tougher than the the team that kept Murray State out of the NCAA tourney.

Unfortunately for Grant, focusing on his game and letting his grades slip at a very demanding university like Notre Dame cost him coming out last season, and it's not like his numbers were bad last year. In fact he put up some nice advanced numbers such as 25.5 PER, 7.7 win shares, 51.1 free throw rate, 59.2 true shooting % and 33.6 assist %, and head to head, he went 2 for 3 against the eventual national champion.

I see where you are coming from but at the same time, you should pick somewhat on potential. Grant was one of the oldest draftees and not a great shooter himself. Gant also a worse WS/48 and OBPM, lower assist rate and higher TO rate. I tend to trust Presti's choices.

[spearsy23]

Grant has 2 years of body development on Cam, those are two very important years at this stage.

[Soonerule]

I see where you are coming from but at the same time, you should pick somewhat on potential. Grant was one of the oldest draftees and not a great shooter himself. Gant also a worse WS/48 and OBPM, lower assist rate and higher TO rate. I tend to trust Presti's choices.

As you know, I've done my homework on these two players and stick with my statement that saying 22 is old is strange to hear and especially applies to Grant because the academic standards are so high at Notre Dame. He wasn't the typical 22 year old entering the draft. Grant red shirted his freshman year for academic reasons and lost the spring of 2014 for the same reason and Phil Jackson is the beneficiary.

Comparing the leagues the two players excelled in is like comparing firecrackers to hand grenades. The ACC placed 6 teams in the NCAA tourney with a record 5 teams making the sweet sixteen (2 of which had to play each other), 2 to the elite 8, and the eventual national champion. Grant's numbers were very similar to Payne's and it not a big leap to say that had Grant played in the lowly Ohio Valley Conference, not only would he have put up the same or better numbers, he would have hit the draft at least 2 seasons ago and his age wouldn't be a factor.

Payne, at 6'2", has decent size and talent for a point guard, Grant, at 6' 5", has great size and talent. Now add Grant's bloodlines. When things get rough making the transition from college to pro, and they will, Grant can draw on his father, his uncle, and his brother for advice. Plus, Grant's transition will be less challenging because he played in a better conference than Payne.

Don't make the mistake of discounting those genetics I spoke of, I've seen them at work. My son was a really good catcher in his day. He played for an elite competition team coached by a man named Denny Porter and went on to play D II. Denny is the younger brother of the late Darryl Porter, MVP of the 1982 World Series. Denny was a pro catcher as well, but wasn't the hitter his brother was and never progressed past double A. Denny's son Dusty (seeing a "D" theme going here?) played for his Dad along with my son. When Denny recruited my boy he moved Dusty from behind the plate and inserted Josh. They were both 11 at the time.

Fast forward 2 year to a recreational youth basketball league. I hadn't seen Dusty since the previous baseball season ended, roughly 3 months, and the change was nothing short of phenomenal. Puberty transformed a normal kid into a beast. After the first practice my son commented on the way home that Dusty was hard as a rock. The next baseball season we moved up to the prep sized field and Dusty was bashing home runs out like someone swatting at gnats, it was incredible. Believe me when I tell you, there is something very very different between the genetics of a professional athlete and the average Joe. It's too bad that Dusty's Mom and Dad split that same year and he made some bad decisions as a result. He had the makings of something special, I promise.

Cameron Payne may surprise me, but breaking what look like the hands of a pianist in a shooting drill doesn't bode well for his chances of surviving the rigors of the NBA. We'll see, I hope he works out.

[bondom34]

I see where you are coming from but at the same time, you should pick somewhat on potential. Grant was one of the oldest draftees and not a great shooter himself. Gant also a worse WS/48 and OBPM, lower assist rate and higher TO rate. I tend to trust Presti's choices.

As you know, I've done my homework on these two players and stick with my statement that saying 22 is old is strange to hear and especially applies to Grant because the academic standards are so high at Notre Dame. He wasn't the typical 22 year old entering the draft. Grant red shirted his freshman year for academic reasons and lost the spring of 2014 for the same reason and Phil Jackson is the beneficiary.

Comparing the leagues the two players excelled in is like comparing firecrackers to hand grenades. The ACC placed 6 teams in the NCAA tourney with a record 5 teams making the sweet sixteen (2 of which had to play each other), 2 to the elite 8, and the eventual national champion. Grant's numbers were very similar to Payne's and it not a big leap to say that had Grant played in the lowly Ohio Valley Conference, not only would he have put up the same or better numbers, he would have hit the draft at least 2 seasons ago and his age wouldn't be a factor.

Payne, at 6'2", has decent size and talent for a point guard, Grant, at 6' 5", has great size and talent. Now add Grant's bloodlines. When things get rough making the transition from college to pro, and they will, Grant can draw on his father, his uncle, and his brother for advice. Plus, Grant's transition will be less challenging because he played in a better conference than Payne.

Don't make the mistake of discounting those genetics I spoke of, I've seen them at work. My son was a really good catcher in his day. He played for an elite competition team coached by a man named Denny Porter and went on to play D II. Denny is the younger brother of the late Darryl Porter, MVP of the 1982 World Series. Denny was a pro catcher as well, but wasn't the hitter his brother was and never progressed past double A. Denny's son Dusty (seeing a "D" theme going here?) played for his Dad along with my son. When Denny recruited my boy he moved Dusty from behind the plate and inserted Josh. They were both 11 at the time.

Fast forward 2 year to a recreational youth basketball league. I hadn't seen Dusty since the previous baseball season ended, roughly 3 months, and the change was nothing short of phenomenal. Puberty transformed a normal kid into a beast. After the first practice my son commented on the way home that Dusty was hard as a rock. The next baseball season we moved up to the prep sized field and Dusty was bashing home runs out like someone swatting at gnats, it was incredible. Believe me when I tell you, there is something very very different between the genetics of a professional athlete and the average Joe. It's too bad that Dusty's Mom and Dad split that same year and he made some bad decisions as a result. He had the makings of something special, I promise.

Cameron Payne may surprise me, but breaking what look like the hands of a pianist in a shooting drill doesn't bode well for his chances of surviving the rigors of the NBA. We'll see, I hope he works out.

I won't disagree with the scouting as you've done your homework. My thinking is I'm pretty sure Presti's done his, and to diffuse a few points:

22 is "old" for a prospect. He's already older than Kanter and Adams, and older than Payne by a few years, its a big developmental difference.

The conference point isn't really fair, see guys like Curry and Lillard. The OVC may have been weak, but Murry St. went undefeated in the RS and If a guy can play he can play. From what I've seen Payne has improved more in his first 2 college years than Grant which may project forward as well. I just don't think tha'ts being fair to Cam.

For the bloodlines idea, it makes some sense in theory but at the same time you have to account for guys who have the bloodline and not the success.

[Soonerule]

I won't disagree with the scouting as you've done your homework. My thinking is I'm pretty sure Presti's done his, and to diffuse a few points:

22 is "old" for a prospect. He's already older than Kanter and Adams, and older than Payne by a few years, its a big developmental difference.

The conference point isn't really fair, see guys like Curry and Lillard. The OVC may have been weak, but Murry St. went undefeated in the RS and If a guy can play he can play. From what I've seen Payne has improved more in his first 2 college years than Grant which may project forward as well. I just don't think tha'ts being fair to Cam.

For the bloodlines idea, it makes some sense in theory but at the same time you have to account for guys who have the bloodline and not the success.

LOL, absolutely Presti did his homework.... dude you made me spew my Powerade. I understand the consensus thinking about Grant's age, I'm just pointing out that his case is a bit unique and his numbers were still improving indicating he is still getting better.

I disagree on the conference comparison. It is entirely relevant. The competition in the OVC is not going to penalize mistakes made by a player the same way the ACC will. You can get away with more in a weaker conference. Ill-advised skip passes for example. The players in the OVC lack the speed and length of an ACC player to snatch that bad pass and race uncontested to the other end. What ticks the assist box in the OVC is a turnover in the ACC. That is why the NBA is currently littered with a bevy of ACC players. Seventy-four to four, ACC to OVC.

http://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/Atlantic-Coast-Conference/1/nba-players

I will help your argument however. A better example of comparison than Curry or Lillard for Payne's chances of succeeding in the NBA is his PG predecessor at Murray State, Isaiah Canaan....

http://basketball.realgm.com/player/Isaiah-Canaan/Summary/12049

...and I did include that in my assessment.

My genetics comment had more to do with survival than with success. Doc Rivers' son Austin is an example of success not necessarily being in the blood, but he's been in the league 3 years with no injuries. Payne broke his hand in a pre-draft shoot around.

As I said, I looked at Isaiah Canaan, key word here, "looked":


(See those guns?)


(Bless his heart, replace the uniform with a black tux and tails, the head band with a concert piano and he would look right at home. I commented the night Payne was drafted how disconcerting it felt that I would bet money the ESPN lady that interviewed him after the selection could knock him out in the second round of a prize fight.)

There was a final area I considered in my assessment and Grant's age and the consensus view he has a lower potential ceiling again worked in his favor. I think Grant would have slipped into the backup PG position Presti must envision this pick filling better than Payne over the long term. Payne's "There is no ceiling on Cameron Payne" comment appears to bear that out. If things work out for the best and Presti can resign KD and Westbrook, I can envision a higher chance in 2 seasons of another Reggie Jackson end of season interview with Payne, if he survives that long, insisting he should be a starter vs Grant.

Don't get me wrong, even though it may not sound like it, it was tough choosing between the two, but Jerian Grant edged Payne out in the end. Neither were very high on my list as you know. I still feel that Justin Anderson was and is the most undervalued prospect from this draft and it just KILLS me that Mark Cuban got him.... GRRRRRRRRR!!! now I have to hate him! I wanted Stanley Johnson so bad I could taste it and Devin Booker came within a cat's whisker of falling into our lap.

I actually blame this all on you because you assured me that Indiana was going to take Payne at 11. , jk.... no I'm not!... yes I am. lol

As they say, yesterday is history and tomorrow is a mystery. Payne is wearing Thunder Blue now so here is hoping he comes through huge!

[bondom34]

I won't disagree with the scouting as you've done your homework. My thinking is I'm pretty sure Presti's done his, and to diffuse a few points:

22 is "old" for a prospect. He's already older than Kanter and Adams, and older than Payne by a few years, its a big developmental difference.

The conference point isn't really fair, see guys like Curry and Lillard. The OVC may have been weak, but Murry St. went undefeated in the RS and If a guy can play he can play. From what I've seen Payne has improved more in his first 2 college years than Grant which may project forward as well. I just don't think tha'ts being fair to Cam.

For the bloodlines idea, it makes some sense in theory but at the same time you have to account for guys who have the bloodline and not the success.

LOL, absolutely Presti did his homework.... dude you made me spew my Powerade. I understand the consensus thinking about Grant's age, I'm just pointing out that his case is a bit unique and his numbers were still improving indicating he is still getting better.

I disagree on the conference comparison. It is entirely relevant. The competition in the OVC is not going to penalize mistakes made by a player the same way the ACC will. You can get away with more in a weaker conference. Ill-advised skip passes for example. The players in the OVC lack the speed and length of an ACC player to snatch that bad pass and race uncontested to the other end. What ticks the assist box in the OVC is a turnover in the ACC. That is why the NBA is currently littered with a bevy of ACC players. Seventy-four to four, ACC to OVC.

http://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/Atlantic-Coast-Conference/1/nba-players

I will help your argument however. A better example of comparison than Curry or Lillard for Payne's chances of succeeding in the NBA is his PG predecessor at Murray State, Isaiah Canaan....

http://basketball.realgm.com/player/Isaiah-Canaan/Summary/12049

...and I did include that in my assessment.

My genetics comment had more to do with survival than with success. Doc Rivers' son Austin is an example of success not necessarily being in the blood, but he's been in the league 3 years with no injuries. Payne broke his hand in a pre-draft shoot around.

As I said, I looked at Isaiah Canaan, key word here, "looked":


(See those guns?)


(Bless his heart, replace the uniform with a black tux and tails, the head band with a concert piano and he would look right at home. I commented the night Payne was drafted how disconcerting it felt that I would bet money the ESPN lady that interviewed him after the selection could knock him out in the second round of a prize fight.)

There was a final area I considered in my assessment and Grant's age and the consensus view he has a lower potential ceiling that again worked in his favor. I think Grant would have slipped into the backup PG position Presti must envision this pick filling better than Payne over the long term. Payne's "There is no ceiling on Cameron Payne" comment appears to bear that out. If things work out for the best and Presti can resign KD and Westbrook, I can envision a higher chance in 2 seasons of another Reggie Jackson end of season interview with Payne, if he survives that long, insisting he should be a starter vs Grant.

Don't get me wrong, even though it may not sound like it, it was tough choosing between the two, but Jerian Grant edged Payne out in the end. Neither were very high on my list as you know. I still feel that Justin Anderson was and is the most undervalued prospect from this draft and it just KILLS me that Mark Cuban got him.... GRRRRRRRRR!!! now I have to hate him! I wanted Stanley Johnson so bad I could taste it and Devin Booker came within a cat's whisker of falling into our lap.

I actually blame this all on you because you assured me that Indiana was going to take Payne at 11. , jk.... no I'm not!... yes I am. lol

As they say, yesterday is history and tomorrow is a mystery. Payne is wearing Thunder Blue now so here is hoping he comes through huge!

Honestly, still a little surprised Indy didn't take Payne, and I think Dallas got a steal, but at 14 I don't know if you take the risk when guys were around who had more potential upside than Anderson, as much as I liked him.

And, another thing about the OVC/conference debate, Payne's numbers are pretty handedly better than Canaan's were at the same school, when Canaan was a senior and Payne a sophomore. Cam was much more efficient, had a way better Assist and TO percentage, way higher BPM and WS/48, and even better steal rate. He blew Canaan away and is 2 years younger, I don't know if they're really comparable other than they played at MSU.

[Soonerule]

Honestly, still a little surprised Indy didn't take Payne, and I think Dallas got a steal, but at 14 I don't know if you take the risk when guys were around who had more potential upside than Anderson, as much as I liked him.

And, another thing about the OVC/conference debate, Payne's numbers are pretty handedly better than Canaan's were at the same school, when Canaan was a senior and Payne a sophomore. Cam was much more efficient, had a way better Assist and TO percentage, way higher BPM and WS/48, and even better steal rate. He blew Canaan away and is 2 years younger, I don't know if they're really comparable other than they played at MSU.

Dangit! you promised me Indy was taking him! lol

RealGM made this evaluation of a current NBA player. Any guesses who?

“While he is still raw offensively, his play on the defensive end of the floor is simply suffocating. If you rate the 2*** draft class as pure basketball players, I’m not sure ??? ???? would be included in the top-20 at this point in his development, but his feel for the game is so naturally sophisticated, his fundamentals will eventually catch up with his instincts and athleticism…”

...and the answer is......



...and he didn't turn out too bad.

If Russ didn't rate the top 20, that mean Presti picked him at least 17 spots higher than RealGM forecast. Anderson would have been just 7 spots. In a worst case scenario, Anderson would still be better than Andre Roberson. Since they dumped him for a can of tuna, better than Jeremy Lamb and thus by your own recent comparison, better than Dion Waters. (even though, and don't tell Bravenewworld I said this, but I still have hope for Waiters )

See? Canaan helps make your argument better. Canaan was named OVC conference player of the year twice and was a consensus 2nd team All-American, not exactly just a piece of toast.

I'm not doubting Payne's ability as much as his durability and still feel Grant's numbers are being compared unfairly to Payne's numbers and not just because the ACC is a better conference. If Grant had gone to say....Memphis of Derek Rose SAT scandal fame vs a make the grades or else school like Notre Dame his numbers would have been better. The year Grant focused on his game and got in trouble for his grades in 2013/14 his PER was 29.9! Grant has an intangible that Payne has yet to prove, Grant is a winner. Just one of those guys that wills his team over the top in big games. I named Virginia and Duke (twice) to win the ACC tourney, add Kentucky to that list in 2013.

Grant will get his chance to prove me right or wrong real quick in New York. Once that international seven feet tall 3 point shooting monster the Knicks picked on Thursday gets acclimated to the NBA, and if Carmelo Anthony doesn't manage to screw it up, New York is going to be a handful and a half.

[bondom34]

Honestly, still a little surprised Indy didn't take Payne, and I think Dallas got a steal, but at 14 I don't know if you take the risk when guys were around who had more potential upside than Anderson, as much as I liked him.

And, another thing about the OVC/conference debate, Payne's numbers are pretty handedly better than Canaan's were at the same school, when Canaan was a senior and Payne a sophomore. Cam was much more efficient, had a way better Assist and TO percentage, way higher BPM and WS/48, and even better steal rate. He blew Canaan away and is 2 years younger, I don't know if they're really comparable other than they played at MSU.

Dangit! you promised me Indy was taking him! lol

RealGM made this evaluation of a current NBA player. Any guesses who?

“While he is still raw offensively, his play on the defensive end of the floor is simply suffocating. If you rate the 2*** draft class as pure basketball players, I’m not sure ??? ???? would be included in the top-20 at this point in his development, but his feel for the game is so naturally sophisticated, his fundamentals will eventually catch up with his instincts and athleticism…”

...and the answer is......



...and he didn't turn out too bad.

If Russ didn't rate the top 20, that mean Presti picked him at least 17 spots higher than RealGM forecast. Anderson would have been just 7 spots. In a worst case scenario, Anderson would still be better than Andre Roberson. Since they dumped him for a can of tuna, better than Jeremy Lamb and thus by your own recent comparison, better than Dion Waters. (even though, and don't tell Bravenewworld I said this, but I still have hope for Waiters )

See? Canaan helps make your argument better. Canaan was named OVC conference player of the year twice and was a consensus 2nd team All-American, not exactly just a piece of toast.

I'm not doubting Payne's ability as much as his durability and still feel Grant's numbers are being compared unfairly to Payne's numbers and not just because the ACC is a better conference. If Grant had gone to say....Memphis of Derek Rose SAT scandal fame vs a make the grades or else school like Notre Dame his numbers would have been better. The year Grant focused on his game and got in trouble for his grades in 2013/14 his PER was 29.9! Grant has an intangible that Payne has yet to prove, Grant is a winner. Just one of those guys that wills his team over the top in big games. I named Virginia and Duke (twice) to win the ACC tourney, add Kentucky to that list in 2013.

Grant will get his chance to prove me right or wrong real quick in New York. Once that international seven feet tall 3 point shooting monster the Knicks picked on Thursday gets acclimated to the NBA, and if Carmelo Anthony doesn't manage to screw it up, New York is going to be a handful and a half.

I think, in a way, you just refuted your own arguement a little my good man. RGM made that valuation of Russ and said he was picked above where he should have been. Presti saw a diamond in the rough and took him anyway. Here, you (RGM) are saying Anderson was the diamond, but Presti didn't see it there. Presti's seen more diamonds than most folks, so I tend to side with his view on this. Plus the differences with Canaan are more than the similarities to me. Canaan at MSU was:
Older
Smaller
Worse in pretty much every way
On a worse team
Showed less improvement

I liked Grant too, but they were close and I think the big difference was that Cam looks to have more upside left.

[Soonerule]

I think, in a way, you just refuted your own arguement a little my good man. RGM made that valuation of Russ and said he was picked above where he should have been. Presti saw a diamond in the rough and took him anyway. Here, you (RGM) are saying Anderson was the diamond, but Presti didn't see it there. Presti's seen more diamonds than most folks, so I tend to side with his view on this. Plus the differences with Canaan are more than the similarities to me. Canaan at MSU was:
Older
Smaller
Worse in pretty much every way
On a worse team
Showed less improvement

I liked Grant too, but they were close and I think the big difference was that Cam looks to have more upside left.

Not sure how, Westbrook was not the best point guard on paper, not by a long shot according to RealGM, and Presti opted for Westbrook's athleticism over numbers. Other than the Kansas stiff in 2011, Presti has always gone with the stronger athlete, but I've always backed his play and hope he's right again. It just feels like he went safe with the Payne pick. I just hope Westbrook doesn't break Payne in practice.

[bondom34]

I think, in a way, you just refuted your own arguement a little my good man. RGM made that valuation of Russ and said he was picked above where he should have been. Presti saw a diamond in the rough and took him anyway. Here, you (RGM) are saying Anderson was the diamond, but Presti didn't see it there. Presti's seen more diamonds than most folks, so I tend to side with his view on this. Plus the differences with Canaan are more than the similarities to me. Canaan at MSU was:
Older
Smaller
Worse in pretty much every way
On a worse team
Showed less improvement

I liked Grant too, but they were close and I think the big difference was that Cam looks to have more upside left.

Not sure how, Westbrook was not the best point guard on paper, not by a long shot according to RealGM, and Presti opted for Westbrook's athleticism over numbers. Other than the Kansas stiff in 2011, Presti has always gone with the stronger athlete, but I've always backed his play and hope he's right again. It just feels like he went safe with the Payne pick. I just hope Westbrook doesn't break Payne in practice.

I was using those points for Cam vs. Canaan, not sure if that's how you took it.

[bondom34]

I think, in a way, you just refuted your own arguement a little my good man. RGM made that valuation of Russ and said he was picked above where he should have been. Presti saw a diamond in the rough and took him anyway. Here, you (RGM) are saying Anderson was the diamond, but Presti didn't see it there. Presti's seen more diamonds than most folks, so I tend to side with his view on this. Plus the differences with Canaan are more than the similarities to me. Canaan at MSU was:
Older
Smaller
Worse in pretty much every way
On a worse team
Showed less improvement

I liked Grant too, but they were close and I think the big difference was that Cam looks to have more upside left.

Not sure how, Westbrook was not the best point guard on paper, not by a long shot according to RealGM, and Presti opted for Westbrook's athleticism over numbers. Other than the Kansas stiff in 2011, Presti has always gone with the stronger athlete, but I've always backed his play and hope he's right again. It just feels like he went safe with the Payne pick. I just hope Westbrook doesn't break Payne in practice.

Also, good read:

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/thunders-cameron-payne-thrives-on-being-overlooked/

“He has no assumptions. He doesn’t feel entitled to anything. He’s had to work for everything he’s had.”

Payne understands he still has more dues to pay. He realizes that he’s been drafted to an elite team that includes point guard Russell Westbrook, who averaged 28.1 points, 8.6 assists and 2.1 steals last season, in the starting lineup.

“Russell Westbrook is one of the best guards in the nation and also one of the best scorers ever,” Payne said. “To be a part of this team, I get to learn from Russell. I get to learn from Kevin (Durant). I’m just coming in here, whatever role is placed on me, whatever the coach needs me to do, I’m down to do it. Just trust the process. If it means not playing, that’s what I’ve got to do. I’ve got to live with it.”

[Old Man Game]

I like our prospects. I think there's a decent that Payne becomes at least as good a pro as Reggie Jackson and an outside chance he's better.

As second rounders go Dakari looks like a solid pick. We've yet to get a second rounder who is actually decent since the team moved here. This guy has as good a chance as any. Especially true if Kanter isn't brought back or if he is and Adams becomes unaffordable when his rookie deal is up.

[Soonerule]

Also, good read:

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/thunders-cameron-payne-thrives-on-being-overlooked/

“He has no assumptions. He doesn’t feel entitled to anything. He’s had to work for everything he’s had.”

Payne understands he still has more dues to pay. He realizes that he’s been drafted to an elite team that includes point guard Russell Westbrook, who averaged 28.1 points, 8.6 assists and 2.1 steals last season, in the starting lineup.

“Russell Westbrook is one of the best guards in the nation and also one of the best scorers ever,” Payne said. “To be a part of this team, I get to learn from Russell. I get to learn from Kevin (Durant). I’m just coming in here, whatever role is placed on me, whatever the coach needs me to do, I’m down to do it. Just trust the process. If it means not playing, that’s what I’ve got to do. I’ve got to live with it.”

“It was really the eye test when people saw me,” Payne said. “My 12th grade year, I looked like I was 13. I weighed about 155. So the eye test, it did a lot to me. But I overcame it and I got better every day and I ended up showing it.”

He overcame the eye test and made it in the OVC, but has a bigger eye test to pass now, a lot bigger. If he does it he will be a great story.

[KD35Brah]

Can you post this article for me to prove how much of a steal Payne was/is? Since i'm not sure how much of it i can post and what i should post.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2390010-nba-draft-notebook-meet-cameron-payne-americas-most-overlooked-prospect

[bondom34]

Can you post this article for me to prove how much of a steal Payne was/is? Since i'm not sure how much of it i can post and what i should post.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2390010-nba-draft-notebook-meet-cameron-payne-americas-most-overlooked-prospect

<script id="infogram_0_two_point_jumpers_made_versus_fg_pct_on_two_point_jumpers" src="//e.infogr.am/js/embed.js?ps0" type="text/javascript"></script>

Meh, go for what you feel fits, sorry about the other one. Technically its just not supposed to be over 3 paragraphs but just so its close its cool w/ me .

I don't know how to post those graphs though sadly, that's a weird format...

[spearsy23]

Grant outweighs cam by 20 pounds, but is like 2 and a half years older and 3 inches taller. His junior year numbers were greatly increased by a hot shooting streak playing non-conference games, he shot 40% from three which obviously isn't who he is. I'd also say it's not easier to get assists playing in a weaker conference, the teams you're playing aren't as good but your teammates aren't either.

[KD35Brah]

Alright, so here it is.

Payne will ultimately need to tighten up his decision-making and shot selection, though he is used in a whopping 31.6 percent of Murray State's possessions as its top scoring and playmaking option, according to Sports-Reference.com. For what it's worth, he ranks No. 1 in the country in points produced and No. 3 in offensive win shares, per Sports-Reference.com.

He's also one of the best shooters in the draft Shooting 38% from 3 on 6.4 attempts per game(this includes him pulling up from 3 in transition and shooting a low 31 percent, so he must be amazing on catch-and-shoot 3s and pull up 3s off a PnR.

In conference play he shot 40% from 3 on 6 attempts per game.

Being able to score 20ppg(80% unassisted) on 57% TS and 6apg on a 32% USG rate is impressive as well.

He's making an excellent 46.2 percent of his two-point jumpers, 83.7 percent of which are unassisted, per Hoop-Math.com. Payne can stop-and-pop from anywhere, while his floater game is strong. These are ultimately key shots for a point guard to have in the arsenal, specifically in an offense that frequently uses ball screens.

Though it's come against mid-major competition, compared to the other top point guard prospects, Payne is by far the most efficient and potent with the pull-up, floater and runner inside the arc.

Click the link to see his shooting percentages compared to the other prospects.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2390010-nba-draft-notebook-meet-cameron-payne-americas-most-overlooked-prospect

[Soonerule]

Geesh, feels like being a one-legged man at an ass kicking contest. I don't doubt Payne's skill and I don't doubt his potential, what I have doubt about is his his durability in the NBA and only time will alleviate that. If Payne proves durable, he won't be as good as RJ, he will be better. In fact, if he proves durable, he is probably going to be good enough to seriously soften the blow if Presti cannot re-sign Westbrook. After saying I was worried Presti may have lost his nerve and went with the safe pick I did some re-evaluating and see the risk Presti is taking if Payne breaks like a china doll. So, as I said yesterday, Payne is wearing Thunder blue, I'm behind him. Everybody happy?

[bondom34]

Geesh, feels like being a one-legged man at an ass kicking contest. I don't doubt Payne's skill and I don't doubt his potential, what I have doubt about is his his durability in the NBA and only time will alleviate that. If Payne proves durable, he won't be as good as RJ, he will be better. In fact, if he proves durable, he is probably going to be good enough to seriously soften the blow if Presti cannot re-sign Westbrook. After saying I was worried Presti may have lost his nerve and went with the safe pick I did some re-evaluating and see the risk Presti is taking if Payne breaks like a china doll. So, as I said yesterday, Payne is wearing Thunder blue, I'm behind him. Everybody happy?

Admit it, you're getting a soft spot for him...

[Soonerule]

Geesh, feels like being a one-legged man at an ass kicking contest. I don't doubt Payne's skill and I don't doubt his potential, what I have doubt about is his his durability in the NBA and only time will alleviate that. If Payne proves durable, he won't be as good as RJ, he will be better. In fact, if he proves durable, he is probably going to be good enough to seriously soften the blow if Presti cannot re-sign Westbrook. After saying I was worried Presti may have lost his nerve and went with the safe pick I did some re-evaluating and see the risk Presti is taking if Payne breaks like a china doll. So, as I said yesterday, Payne is wearing Thunder blue, I'm behind him. Everybody happy?

Admit it, you're getting a soft spot for him...

I thought I did.