Trade-Talk

[HartfordWhalers]

Per the way these picks are written can the Thunder trade a 2018 first round pick protected 15-30 in 2018, 15-30 in 2019, 21-30 in 2020, 21-30 in 2021, and 21-30 in 2022?

2018 first round draft pick to Utah
Oklahoma City's 1st round pick to Utah protected for selections 1-14 in 2018, 1-14 in 2019 and 1-14 in 2020; if Oklahoma City has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Utah by 2020, then Oklahoma City will instead convey its 2020 2nd round pick and 2021 2nd round pick to Utah [Detroit-Oklahoma City-Utah, 2/19/2015]

2020 first round draft pick to Philadelphia
Two years after Oklahoma City conveys a 1st round pick to Utah, Oklahoma City will convey its 1st round pick to Philadelphia protected for selections 1-20 in 2020, 1-20 in 2021 and 1-20 in 2022; in any year, if this pick is not conveyed because it falls within its protected range, then Oklahoma City will instead convey its 2022 2nd round pick and 2023 2nd round pick to Philadelphia (i.e., the 1st round pick will not roll over to the following year if it is not conveyed due to protection) [Oklahoma City-Philadelphia, 11/1/2016]

I believe that's correct, but let me throw up a batsignal for our resident pick expert.

...

If I am understanding the question correct, the question is can OKC trade the bottom range of the pick:

2018
-> if 15-30 goes to Utah
-> if 1-14, goes to new team.

The answer to that is no.

The reason is because if OKC pick goes:
#14 in 2018 -> to new team
#15 in 2019 -> then to Utah
2 years in a row without a pick, thus a Stepien violation.

And as long as a Stepien violation is possible (even if super unlikley), then a trade cannot happen.



There is one very specific situation where a team can definitely do that reverse protection and trade a bottom range despite having a future picked owed.

Lets say OKC is 1-14 in '18 and in '19 also.

At that time the picks have all pushed back and they owe:

2020 first round draft pick to Utah
Oklahoma City's 1st round pick to Utah protected for selections 1-14 in 2020; if Oklahoma City has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Utah by 2020, then Oklahoma City will instead convey its 2020 2nd round pick and 2021 2nd round pick to Utah [Detroit-Oklahoma City-Utah, 2/19/2015]

2022 first round draft pick to Philadelphia
1-20 in 2022; in any year, if this pick is not conveyed because it falls within its protected range, then Oklahoma City will instead convey its 2022 2nd round pick and 2023 2nd round pick to Philadelphia (i.e., the 1st round pick will not roll over to the following year if it is not conveyed due to protection) [Oklahoma City-Philadelphia, 11/1/2016]


Now, OKC still needs to keep their 2021 1st but if they are 1-14 in 2020 they will have a pick in 2020 and 2021*. So, they could trade the pick protected 15-39 for just that year. Aka, trade the pick if it was 1-14 in 2020 (back rubs if not in range).



Hope that helps, and if it is confusing, ask away!



* If you are wondering, hey, if Utah never gets a pick why isn't the 2nd pick going to Philly in 2020 and instead is pushed back to 2022, it is a good question. The basic answer is it gets pushed back when the 2020 pick could go to Utah, and there is no way to undo pushing it back (and if there was Stepien could be violated willy nilly).

[Balkman32]

So we basically have no first round picks that we can trade until 2022? They must really like Grant since they blocked themselves the opportunity to add picks to any offer. Or maybe that was the plan all along.


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[Osirus89]

So we basically have no first round picks that we can trade until 2022? They must really like Grant since they blocked themselves the opportunity to add picks to any offer. Or maybe that was the plan all along.


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Sigh it appears so. By the time we can trade another pick..... they will be working on the next CBA, which makes that pick worthless at this point. Jerami is a nice player and all but Presti really tied his hands in regards to trading picks for the next few years. He is close to Oladipo though so there is that might have been a factor. They can draft guys and then trade them, but not before. Presti also loves the draft so I don't know if he will do that. Guess we can only hope he hits in the drafts like he did with Domas.

[Patches Perry]

Kanter for Wes Matthews would benefit OKC a lot I think, and their contracts are nearly identical, with the only difference being Kanter's 4th year (2018-2019) is a player option and Matthews is guaranteed.

[itzmrgigglez]

Wes Matthews is just not worth the gamble in my eyes

[Balkman32]

Kanter for Wes Matthews would benefit OKC a lot I think, and their contracts are nearly identical, with the only difference being Kanter's 4th year (2018-2019) is a player option and Matthews is guaranteed.

Doubt the Thunder trade for player their 30's.

[Pillendreher]

Kanter for Wes Matthews would benefit OKC a lot I think, and their contracts are nearly identical, with the only difference being Kanter's 4th year (2018-2019) is a player option and Matthews is guaranteed.

Doubt the Thunder trade for player their 30's.

Yeah that's a good point.

I think we basically have three different choices:

a) Trade for an older player, most likely in his 30s and several years past his peak

This is where Matthews and Gay come to mind. Both will probably only get worse and Matthews already got paid, whereas Gay will be looking to get paid. Can we really afford to spend 18+ million a year on a guy that doesn't really fit with our 'timetable'? I like the idea of both of them, but I doubt it would work out all that well. Can Matthews stay reasonably healthy? Will he ever be able to get to the rim or will he just be a broken jumpshooter? What kind of money would Gay accept? Would he be content with not being the focal point offensively and maybe even only the 4th or 5th option?
Wilson Chandler might also fit in here, but he has a very favorable contract.

b) Trade for a young, good player with potential

This the Otto Porter section. Will probably never happen.

c) Trade for a player that is supposed to be good.

Welcome to the Ben McLemore section. The way Presti operates, this is probably what he will go for while also giving up a pick and getting worse in the process.

[Patches Perry]

Kanter for Wes Matthews would benefit OKC a lot I think, and their contracts are nearly identical, with the only difference being Kanter's 4th year (2018-2019) is a player option and Matthews is guaranteed.

Doubt the Thunder trade for player their 30's.

Yeah that's a good point.

I think we basically have three different choices:

a) Trade for an older player, most likely in his 30s and several years past his peak

This is where Matthews and Gay come to mind. Both will probably only get worse and Matthews already got paid, whereas Gay will be looking to get paid. Can we really afford to spend 18+ million a year on a guy that doesn't really fit with our 'timetable'? I like the idea of both of them, but I doubt it would work out all that well. Can Matthews stay reasonably healthy? Will he ever be able to get to the rim or will he just be a broken jumpshooter? What kind of money would Gay accept? Would he be content with not being the focal point offensively and maybe even only the 4th or 5th option?
Wilson Chandler might also fit in here, but he has a very favorable contract.

b) Trade for a young, good player with potential

This the Otto Porter section. Will probably never happen.

c) Trade for a player that is supposed to be good.

Welcome to the Ben McLemore section. The way Presti operates, this is probably what he will go for while also giving up a pick and getting worse in the process.

I think looking to trade for a young 3D guy is getting greedy and asking too much. It'll be difficult to pull off. Those type of players are coveted now because they seem to be championship prerequisites. Teams won't trade them in their primes unless part of a package for a superstar.

The best chance of getting a young 3D wing is through the draft. Otherwise, I think we have to accept a 3D guy past his prime in his 30's or yet another wing who only plays 1 side of the court (Roberson, Morrow, etc). I doubt anyone is trading a young player who plays both ends of the court and can hit threes. That's a core piece every team needs.

[Osirus89]

c) Trade for a player that is supposed to be good.

Welcome to the Ben McLemore section. The way Presti operates, this is probably what he will go for while also giving up a pick and getting worse in the process.

Ugh.. The next dion waiters

I think looking to trade for a young 3D guy is getting greedy and asking too much. It'll be difficult to pull off. Those type of players are coveted now because they seem to be championship prerequisites. Teams won't trade them in their primes unless part of a package for a superstar.

The best chance of getting a young 3D wing is through the draft. Otherwise, I think we have to accept a 3D guy past his prime in his 30's or yet another wing who only plays 1 side of the court (Roberson, Morrow, etc). I doubt anyone is trading a young player who plays both ends of the court and can hit threes. That's a core piece every team needs.

Good Point
Maybe instead of trading during the season for a wing that may/ may not help much, the team would be better served by trading during the draft to get a good prospect. I think most of us like OG Anunoby alot. Might as well do whatever we can to acquire him. Problem is we will probably be picking between 21 - 25. (Hopefully for Russ's MVP campaign) Going to cost assets to trade up, but it might be worth it.

[Pillendreher]

Now is just a bad time to be looking for wing help. The older guys will be looking for their last payday, young guys will get paid as well. And guys that are locked up on good contracts won't get dealt.

[Pillendreher]

Matthews has been balling these past 14 games: 17.2/3.5/2.0 on 46.5 % from 3 on more than 8 attempts per game.

I still doubt he's one of Presti's targets - trading for him basically guarantees us not getting any better in that regard over the next 2-3 years. Doesn't really fit our 'timeline'.

[Osirus89]

What do you guys think of this trade. I can't use trade machine to check yet because of trade restrictions,but the thought process seems like it might work.

OKC:
Out: Kanter, Morrow
In: Gay, Ezeli

Sac:
Out: Gay
In: Crabbe

Portland:
Out: Crabbe, Ezeli
In: Morrow, Kanter

We get gay without losing Cameron, and we get festus who is dealing with injury problems but has a team option for next year. If injuries continue we can just bring in Dakari. I should mention Ezeli has a very reasonable contract. We get to shed enes's big contract to make room for potentially Andre's deal. Portland likes kanter and could use the bench scoring and rebounding. They also get Morrow for Crabbe. Sacramento gets Crabbe to replace Rudy, so they get younger and contract security. I think everyone walks away happy.

Note: I know we could just have the deal between us and Portland I guess, but I think presti wants gay more than he wants Crabbe.

[Pillendreher]

I don't know if Portland should do that. Sure, to get rid of Crabbe's terrible, terrible contract, but he seems like one of the few wings actually hitting shots over there.

The Kings might do it I guess.

[Osirus89]

Matthews has been balling these past 14 games: 17.2/3.5/2.0 on 46.5 % from 3 on more than 8 attempts per game.

I still doubt he's one of Presti's targets - trading for him basically guarantees us not getting any better in that regard over the next 2-3 years. Doesn't really fit our 'timeline'.

Matthews is playing at a very high level right now. He's got his 3 pt shot back. From what little I saw his defense is solid again as well. I hope he can keep it up. Not my first choice, but I cant say I would be disappointed if he was brought in. The difference between him and gay isn't much, and he wont be asking for a big payday either. At least he is locked in to his contract. Presti seems to want a big wing, but Wes is not a bad option....

[Pillendreher]

Matthews has been balling these past 14 games: 17.2/3.5/2.0 on 46.5 % from 3 on more than 8 attempts per game.

I still doubt he's one of Presti's targets - trading for him basically guarantees us not getting any better in that regard over the next 2-3 years. Doesn't really fit our 'timeline'.

Matthews is playing at a very high level right now. He's got his 3 pt shot back. From what little I saw his defense is solid again as well. I hope he can keep it up. Not my first choice, but I cant say I would be disappointed if he was brought in. The difference between him and gay isn't much, and he wont be asking for a big payday either. At least he is locked in to his contract. Presti seems to want a big wing, but Wes is not a bad option....

The only way Presti goes for him is if he strikes out on every other trade target I think. He's just too old and on the back end of his career. The oldest guy Presti ever traded for was Perk iirc and he was 27 I think (if you discount those old guys brought in for leadership before the Playoffs). And now his team consists of Russ and a bunch of 20-24 yo.

What could push him towards Matthews is him thinking he could provide the most instant help. Other than that, I just don't see it.

[Xanadu]

The Bucks could really use Payne.I asked about him last year but you guys said Midds or nothing but is that still the case. Anyone not from our core could be had. Willing to throw a first in there as well but with top10 protection.

[Andre Roberstan]

The Bucks could really use Payne.I asked about him last year but you guys said Midds or nothing but is that still the case. Anyone not from our core could be had. Willing to throw a first in there as well but with top10 protection.

We need 3pt shooting wings, which I don't think you have an abundance of.

[Xanadu]

The Bucks could really use Payne.I asked about him last year but you guys said Midds or nothing but is that still the case. Anyone not from our core could be had. Willing to throw a first in there as well but with top10 protection.

We need 3pt shooting wings, which I don't think you have an abundance of.

No we don't perhaps a three way would be only way to get it done. Perhaps where we move Monroe to a different team for what you guys would need. I wish Kidd we give Vaughn some burn especially over broken down Terry. Vaughn showed a lot of improvement at the beginning of the year but Kidd decided that Terry was better. Vaughn still has a ways to go to even become a rotational piece on a good team but he is still only 20.

[Xanadu]

But with Payne's injury his value can be all that high anyway. I would offer a our first and Vaughn. What player would you like for Payne and where do you place his value. With RW and Oladpio in the fold for the foreseeable future what place does he have on this team. If a scoring wing is what you need maybe Beasley and a first. Before you laugh Beasley has been a pleasant surprise this year. He isn't chucking and rebounding/defending much better than he used too.

[Osirus89]

The Bucks could really use Payne.I asked about him last year but you guys said Midds or nothing but is that still the case. Anyone not from our core could be had. Willing to throw a first in there as well but with top10 protection.

So that's a no on giannis then I take it

Maybe a three team deal would be good. Payne has weird value for us because our third string (semaj) is not very good so we would be hesitant to trade him. I don't know if snell or Beasley would interest the others, but who knows.

How protected is the first?