1
trex_8063
David Robinson
Horace Grant
Rick Barry
George Gervin
Chauncey Billups
Kevin Willis
Dave Cowens
Bruce Bowen
Danny Green
Terry Porter
Coach: Bill Sharman
Spoiler:
Once again I'll state we owe it to each other to read the write-ups prior to voting.
The Overview (copied prior post with a couple small additions and minor changes)
Starters
PG - Chauncey Billups (‘06-’08)
SG - George Gervin (‘78-’80)
SF - *Rick Barry (‘67-’70)
PF - Horace Grant (‘92-’94)
C - David Robinson (‘94-’96)
Bench
*Bruce Bowen (‘04-’06)
Dave Cowens (‘74-’76)
Terry Porter (‘91-’93)
Danny Green (‘13-present)
Kevin Willis (‘92-’94)
Coach: Bill Sharman
My general philosophy was to create a team that is deep, that is great and balanced on both sides of the ball; a team without significant weakness in any area of the game.
To go thru, I’ll begin by outlining the qualities I see in my 1st unit (hinting at their application), then my “2nd unit”, then a word about my coach, and finally a few comments on minutes/usage of the players at my disposal.
1st Unit
Offensive
Generally, my aim is ball movement and/or quick and decisive action once the rock is in one's hand (something both Gervin and DRob were good at). What I want avoided is the chewing up of 6-10 seconds of clock while someone dribbles idly on the perimeter, shot-fakes (a la Dantley), crabs-walks down, or other general time-consuming isos which (imo) subtract from a team offensive flow.
Now....
My 1st unit has elite-level perimeter scoring and elite-level interior scoring. I have one of the GOAT-level slasher/finishing perimeter scorers, an elite post scorer, 3pt shooting/floor spacing, good ball-control, and pretty good passing from nearly all positions.
My offensive front-man is going to be The Iceman. This was a guy who even prior to changes to hand-check rules was slashing and getting into the lane effectively. Was an amazing finisher, even more amazing at finishing what appeared to be almost “circus-shots” (finger rolls from 5 feet from the basket??), good mid-range shooter, excellent at hitting little “leaners” and “floaters”, too. In the span of his career I’m going with (‘78-’80) he was averaging a big 36.2 pts/100 possessions while shooting an amazing 53.5% FG% . Decent at getting to the line, too, where he shot 83.6%; overall 59.1% ts (+6.6% to league avg) during this span, which is pretty amazing while scoring such volume and shouldering that level of primacy.
And did it generate effective team offense? You bet it did. If you scrutinize those Spur teams: his biggest offensive help were guys like Billy Paultz and James Silas. And yet the Spurs ORtg during the span: 2nd, 3rd, and 3rd (out of 22) respectively.
With modern rules (no hand-checking) being in place for this fantasy league, makes me think he could be even MORE effective/efficient in getting into the paint or to the line. Just an amazing scorer.
**I'll be honest, I flat excited about the potential of George Gervin in league/era with better floor spacing and hand-checking being outlawed, as we're talking modern rules/context for this league. His ability to get to the rim or the line with no hand-checking should be like James Harden......except that he's probably a better finisher, much (much much MUCH) better in the close range (3-10 ft), and probably a little better from the mid-range, too. I don't see anyone having a fun time trying to slow him down.
When David Robinson (GOAT-level rs performer, and who knows how good he could be in post-season with the focus taken off him) is your SECOND option, how good must your offense be?!? In the years specified this guy averaged 37.0 pts/100 poss @ 58.9% ts (+5.13% to league avg). He gives me a center who can run in transition and finish off oops as good as any center that has ever played. A nice face-up game with the quickness/athleticism to blow by slower centers, and the strength and explosiveness to bully weaker centers on the block. Doesn't let you off the hook at the FT-line either, where he was a career 73.6% shooter. Where his playoff short-comings are concerned, well…..that isn’t much of a concern now, as he no longer has to shoulder the burden of being my primary scorer. And Gervin, you’ll note, doesn’t appear to skip a beat in the playoffs (nor do some of my other starters; more on that later). Pretty decent passing big, and a consummate teammate, too.
Chauncey Billups provides a more than capable floor general, good play-making, very good ball-control (Ast:TO ratio of 2.81 during his prime, 3.68 in the years specified), and clutch play (1-Time FMVP, nicknamed “Mr. Big Shot” for a reason; and you’ll note he too doesn’t appear to skip a beat in the playoffs). Elite outside shooting, which also helps with the floor spacing; and it’s pretty nice to have a ~60-61% ts scoring as your third (at times perhaps 4th) option scorer.
You may be wondering why I had an * by Rick Barry and Bruce Bowen. It’s because while I may be starting Rick Barry, I actually don’t intend to play him much with the 1st unit. I am more intending to use him as the offensive engine of my 2nd unit.
We all know Barry likes a lot of shots, and that he has more than his share of ego. However, he’s also an intelligent guy with a pretty high bball IQ. I think even he would recognize that he’s a superstar among superstars on this team, and that he simply cannot warrant/demand the kind of primacy that he was otherwise used to.
My intent was to probably start him (to soothe his ego with the distinction of being a “starter” on this team full of superstars), but then likely bench him early in the first quarter in favor of Bruce Bowen. An additional perimeter scorer (Barry) is a touch redundant with the line-up I’ve already described. Really what I need is an additional guy to space the floor (Bowen: 39.9% 3pt shooter on avg 2.9 3PA/g in years specified; really elite in the corners), and do little else offensively; the rest of Bowen’s value would come on the other end (more on that below). And then Barry is free to get lots of shots while on the court with the 2nd unit, as that is my primary intention for him. So anyway, that was the purpose of the * by each of their names.
And lastly, at PF, I intend to start Horace Grant. His role on offense will be to occasionally catch an interior pass from a penetrating guard and finish at the rim (he’s proved to have great hands and nice finishing ability), hit the occasional open 11-18 footer (another thing he’s pretty well proven at), do some facilitating from the high post (not unaccustomed to that either; avg as high as 3.4 apg in the years specified, with a cumulative Ast:TO ratio of 2.06---which is almost unheard of for a PF). And otherwise, I want to crash the offensive glass (another thing he’s proven capable of: OREB% of 14.0% in years specified).
All in all, this seems like a marvelous offensive line-up, imo.
Defense
I’ve one ELITE level perimeter defender who can stymie most perimeter scorers to some degree---Bruce Bowen.
I’ve got another very good perimeter defender in Chauncey Billups.
In Horace Grant I’ve got a guy who is mobile and smart enough to defend very well against the pick-n-roll, is a very good low-post defender (against PF or C), and a decent help defender, too.
And then to pick up any slack, protect the rim, defend pnr and anything else that needs doing I’ve got a short-list all-time great defensive center to anchor it all in DRob.
This defense frankly looks every bit as amazing as the offense. On to the 2nd unit…..
2nd Unit
Rick Barry is intended to be the primary scorer with this group, with the rest more or less working off of him and the attention he’ll draw. Aside from shooting, Barry was a more than competent passing SF, too; was a totally decent defensive player from what I’ve seen, too.
I should have great floor spacing with this group: Danny Green is an absolutely lights out 3pt shooter (42.1% from downtown on 5.2 3PA/g over the last three years). And what’s more, he’s a scrappy defender (with nice DRAPM in recent years). He tends to bring his A-game in the playoffs, too.
Terry Porter, despite playing in an era before the 3pt line was in such high usage was shooting 40.8% from trey on 4.0 3PA/g in the years specified. He also gives solid leadership, play-making, and ball control.
Dave Cowens should more or less be able to fill every function (on both offense and defense) at the PF that I wanted in Horace Grant: can hit open mid-range shots, can pass/facilitate from the high post, quick enough to defend the pick-n-roll or if caught on a switch, and tough/strong enough to defend the low post. Maybe not quite as good a finisher as Grant, but has a little more in the way of post-up game should that be required (only reason I’m not starting him ahead of Grant, is that this aspect of his game will get lost among this stacked team); and he’s probably a MORE elite rebounder than Grant.
And Kevin Willis will provide some reasonable offense, again the lateral quickness to defend the pick-n-roll, and the strength to defend the post. And while he’s not much of a rim protector at all, he’s an absolute beast on the boards (he’s rebounding just a small step below peak Dwight Howard, with a Reb/100 poss rate of 18.5 during the years specified).
Coaching
At coach I’ve got a very cerebral, tough-minded warrior in Bill Sharman. A guy who understood well both sides of the game, and appeared capable of dealing with big egos (coached both Rick Barry and Wilt Chamberlain in his career, and took both of them to the NBA finals, winning it all with Wilt. He also coached one ABA champion).
Come on!…..this team is remarkable in all aspects of the game.
Minutes/Usage
I’m generally only going 9 guys deep in my roster…..
David Robinson is clearly my most dominant all-around player, and also plays the position for which I lose the most in going to his replacement (Willis, although I’ll likely use either Cowens or Grant at the C position once in awhile). So he’s going to be getting the largest minutes.
Second in minutes will likely be Gervin, as he’s my most reliable high volume/high efficiency scorer (at any position). As long as he’s on the court (with just about any other compliment of the players I have on the roster), that will put pressure on any defense. Can’t see playing him any less than about 30 mpg.
Billups will likely be third, with Porter pretty consistently being his sub. Barry will likely only be about 4th in minutes (again: mostly as the leader of my second unit, though he may spell Gervin at SG here and there; only rarely intend to have both he and Gervin on the floor at the same time).
Bowen, although just a role player, will likely be getting ~24 mpg. Barry and Gervin on the court at the same time creates a bit of redundancy, so I’ll usually have Bowen at SF when Gervin is on the court. Bowen (in combo with either Billups or Porter) ensures floor spacing on offense, and is my most elite perimeter defender who can be assigned to the best SG/SF on the other end.
Both Cowens and Grant will likely see at least a little time at the C position, otherwise each spelling the other at PF. Both will likely be >24 mpg.
Green will also get relevant playing time, mostly alongside Barry with the 2nd unit.
Kevin Willis is mostly just a bit of filler, really only getting minimal minutes to help get Robinson a the minimum reasonable amount of rest, and/or filling in when there’s foul trouble issues, etc.
Overall, the minutes per game will look something like this:
David Robinson ~36 mpg
George Gervin 30-32 mpg
Chauncey Billups 27-30 mpg
Rick Barry 24+ mpg
Horace Grant 24-27 mpg
Dave Cowens 24-27 mpg
Bruce Bowen 24+ mpg
Terry Porter 18-21 mpg
Danny Green ~16-18 mpg
Kevin Willis ~4-5 mpg (if any)
The Overview (copied prior post with a couple small additions and minor changes)
Starters
PG - Chauncey Billups (‘06-’08)
SG - George Gervin (‘78-’80)
SF - *Rick Barry (‘67-’70)
PF - Horace Grant (‘92-’94)
C - David Robinson (‘94-’96)
Bench
*Bruce Bowen (‘04-’06)
Dave Cowens (‘74-’76)
Terry Porter (‘91-’93)
Danny Green (‘13-present)
Kevin Willis (‘92-’94)
Coach: Bill Sharman
My general philosophy was to create a team that is deep, that is great and balanced on both sides of the ball; a team without significant weakness in any area of the game.
To go thru, I’ll begin by outlining the qualities I see in my 1st unit (hinting at their application), then my “2nd unit”, then a word about my coach, and finally a few comments on minutes/usage of the players at my disposal.
1st Unit
Offensive
Generally, my aim is ball movement and/or quick and decisive action once the rock is in one's hand (something both Gervin and DRob were good at). What I want avoided is the chewing up of 6-10 seconds of clock while someone dribbles idly on the perimeter, shot-fakes (a la Dantley), crabs-walks down, or other general time-consuming isos which (imo) subtract from a team offensive flow.
Now....
My 1st unit has elite-level perimeter scoring and elite-level interior scoring. I have one of the GOAT-level slasher/finishing perimeter scorers, an elite post scorer, 3pt shooting/floor spacing, good ball-control, and pretty good passing from nearly all positions.
My offensive front-man is going to be The Iceman. This was a guy who even prior to changes to hand-check rules was slashing and getting into the lane effectively. Was an amazing finisher, even more amazing at finishing what appeared to be almost “circus-shots” (finger rolls from 5 feet from the basket??), good mid-range shooter, excellent at hitting little “leaners” and “floaters”, too. In the span of his career I’m going with (‘78-’80) he was averaging a big 36.2 pts/100 possessions while shooting an amazing 53.5% FG% . Decent at getting to the line, too, where he shot 83.6%; overall 59.1% ts (+6.6% to league avg) during this span, which is pretty amazing while scoring such volume and shouldering that level of primacy.
And did it generate effective team offense? You bet it did. If you scrutinize those Spur teams: his biggest offensive help were guys like Billy Paultz and James Silas. And yet the Spurs ORtg during the span: 2nd, 3rd, and 3rd (out of 22) respectively.
With modern rules (no hand-checking) being in place for this fantasy league, makes me think he could be even MORE effective/efficient in getting into the paint or to the line. Just an amazing scorer.
**I'll be honest, I flat excited about the potential of George Gervin in league/era with better floor spacing and hand-checking being outlawed, as we're talking modern rules/context for this league. His ability to get to the rim or the line with no hand-checking should be like James Harden......except that he's probably a better finisher, much (much much MUCH) better in the close range (3-10 ft), and probably a little better from the mid-range, too. I don't see anyone having a fun time trying to slow him down.
When David Robinson (GOAT-level rs performer, and who knows how good he could be in post-season with the focus taken off him) is your SECOND option, how good must your offense be?!? In the years specified this guy averaged 37.0 pts/100 poss @ 58.9% ts (+5.13% to league avg). He gives me a center who can run in transition and finish off oops as good as any center that has ever played. A nice face-up game with the quickness/athleticism to blow by slower centers, and the strength and explosiveness to bully weaker centers on the block. Doesn't let you off the hook at the FT-line either, where he was a career 73.6% shooter. Where his playoff short-comings are concerned, well…..that isn’t much of a concern now, as he no longer has to shoulder the burden of being my primary scorer. And Gervin, you’ll note, doesn’t appear to skip a beat in the playoffs (nor do some of my other starters; more on that later). Pretty decent passing big, and a consummate teammate, too.
Chauncey Billups provides a more than capable floor general, good play-making, very good ball-control (Ast:TO ratio of 2.81 during his prime, 3.68 in the years specified), and clutch play (1-Time FMVP, nicknamed “Mr. Big Shot” for a reason; and you’ll note he too doesn’t appear to skip a beat in the playoffs). Elite outside shooting, which also helps with the floor spacing; and it’s pretty nice to have a ~60-61% ts scoring as your third (at times perhaps 4th) option scorer.
You may be wondering why I had an * by Rick Barry and Bruce Bowen. It’s because while I may be starting Rick Barry, I actually don’t intend to play him much with the 1st unit. I am more intending to use him as the offensive engine of my 2nd unit.
We all know Barry likes a lot of shots, and that he has more than his share of ego. However, he’s also an intelligent guy with a pretty high bball IQ. I think even he would recognize that he’s a superstar among superstars on this team, and that he simply cannot warrant/demand the kind of primacy that he was otherwise used to.
My intent was to probably start him (to soothe his ego with the distinction of being a “starter” on this team full of superstars), but then likely bench him early in the first quarter in favor of Bruce Bowen. An additional perimeter scorer (Barry) is a touch redundant with the line-up I’ve already described. Really what I need is an additional guy to space the floor (Bowen: 39.9% 3pt shooter on avg 2.9 3PA/g in years specified; really elite in the corners), and do little else offensively; the rest of Bowen’s value would come on the other end (more on that below). And then Barry is free to get lots of shots while on the court with the 2nd unit, as that is my primary intention for him. So anyway, that was the purpose of the * by each of their names.
And lastly, at PF, I intend to start Horace Grant. His role on offense will be to occasionally catch an interior pass from a penetrating guard and finish at the rim (he’s proved to have great hands and nice finishing ability), hit the occasional open 11-18 footer (another thing he’s pretty well proven at), do some facilitating from the high post (not unaccustomed to that either; avg as high as 3.4 apg in the years specified, with a cumulative Ast:TO ratio of 2.06---which is almost unheard of for a PF). And otherwise, I want to crash the offensive glass (another thing he’s proven capable of: OREB% of 14.0% in years specified).
All in all, this seems like a marvelous offensive line-up, imo.
Defense
I’ve one ELITE level perimeter defender who can stymie most perimeter scorers to some degree---Bruce Bowen.
I’ve got another very good perimeter defender in Chauncey Billups.
In Horace Grant I’ve got a guy who is mobile and smart enough to defend very well against the pick-n-roll, is a very good low-post defender (against PF or C), and a decent help defender, too.
And then to pick up any slack, protect the rim, defend pnr and anything else that needs doing I’ve got a short-list all-time great defensive center to anchor it all in DRob.
This defense frankly looks every bit as amazing as the offense. On to the 2nd unit…..
2nd Unit
Rick Barry is intended to be the primary scorer with this group, with the rest more or less working off of him and the attention he’ll draw. Aside from shooting, Barry was a more than competent passing SF, too; was a totally decent defensive player from what I’ve seen, too.
I should have great floor spacing with this group: Danny Green is an absolutely lights out 3pt shooter (42.1% from downtown on 5.2 3PA/g over the last three years). And what’s more, he’s a scrappy defender (with nice DRAPM in recent years). He tends to bring his A-game in the playoffs, too.
Terry Porter, despite playing in an era before the 3pt line was in such high usage was shooting 40.8% from trey on 4.0 3PA/g in the years specified. He also gives solid leadership, play-making, and ball control.
Dave Cowens should more or less be able to fill every function (on both offense and defense) at the PF that I wanted in Horace Grant: can hit open mid-range shots, can pass/facilitate from the high post, quick enough to defend the pick-n-roll or if caught on a switch, and tough/strong enough to defend the low post. Maybe not quite as good a finisher as Grant, but has a little more in the way of post-up game should that be required (only reason I’m not starting him ahead of Grant, is that this aspect of his game will get lost among this stacked team); and he’s probably a MORE elite rebounder than Grant.
And Kevin Willis will provide some reasonable offense, again the lateral quickness to defend the pick-n-roll, and the strength to defend the post. And while he’s not much of a rim protector at all, he’s an absolute beast on the boards (he’s rebounding just a small step below peak Dwight Howard, with a Reb/100 poss rate of 18.5 during the years specified).
Coaching
At coach I’ve got a very cerebral, tough-minded warrior in Bill Sharman. A guy who understood well both sides of the game, and appeared capable of dealing with big egos (coached both Rick Barry and Wilt Chamberlain in his career, and took both of them to the NBA finals, winning it all with Wilt. He also coached one ABA champion).
Come on!…..this team is remarkable in all aspects of the game.
Minutes/Usage
I’m generally only going 9 guys deep in my roster…..
David Robinson is clearly my most dominant all-around player, and also plays the position for which I lose the most in going to his replacement (Willis, although I’ll likely use either Cowens or Grant at the C position once in awhile). So he’s going to be getting the largest minutes.
Second in minutes will likely be Gervin, as he’s my most reliable high volume/high efficiency scorer (at any position). As long as he’s on the court (with just about any other compliment of the players I have on the roster), that will put pressure on any defense. Can’t see playing him any less than about 30 mpg.
Billups will likely be third, with Porter pretty consistently being his sub. Barry will likely only be about 4th in minutes (again: mostly as the leader of my second unit, though he may spell Gervin at SG here and there; only rarely intend to have both he and Gervin on the floor at the same time).
Bowen, although just a role player, will likely be getting ~24 mpg. Barry and Gervin on the court at the same time creates a bit of redundancy, so I’ll usually have Bowen at SF when Gervin is on the court. Bowen (in combo with either Billups or Porter) ensures floor spacing on offense, and is my most elite perimeter defender who can be assigned to the best SG/SF on the other end.
Both Cowens and Grant will likely see at least a little time at the C position, otherwise each spelling the other at PF. Both will likely be >24 mpg.
Green will also get relevant playing time, mostly alongside Barry with the 2nd unit.
Kevin Willis is mostly just a bit of filler, really only getting minimal minutes to help get Robinson a the minimum reasonable amount of rest, and/or filling in when there’s foul trouble issues, etc.
Overall, the minutes per game will look something like this:
David Robinson ~36 mpg
George Gervin 30-32 mpg
Chauncey Billups 27-30 mpg
Rick Barry 24+ mpg
Horace Grant 24-27 mpg
Dave Cowens 24-27 mpg
Bruce Bowen 24+ mpg
Terry Porter 18-21 mpg
Danny Green ~16-18 mpg
Kevin Willis ~4-5 mpg (if any)
9
Warspite
Bill Walton
Kevin Love
John Havlicek
Joe Dumars
Walt Frazier
Mel Daniels
Detlef Schrempf
Bernard King
Louie Dampier
Maurice Cheeks
Coach: Tom Izzo
Spoiler:
Warspite wrote:starting lineup
PG Frasier
SG Dumars
SF King
PF Love
C Walton
Bench
Cheeks, Hondo, Schrempf, Mel Daniels, Louie Dampier
Coach Tom Izzo
Offense:
King is #1 option in the low post with Love and Dumars on the outside and Walton in the high post/elbow. Other plays will be using Dumars and Hondo much like Rip Hamilton having them come off screens for curls and having Frasier play pick and pop/roll with Walton/Schrempf/Love/Daniels.
Defense:
Frasier/Dumars is the best defensive backcourt if not the best overall. Cheeks and Hondo will back them up so there isn't much drop off. Walton/Daniels are the rim protectors while Love provides rebounding.
Hanging our hat on defense, guard play and clutchness. I can put a lineup on the court in which every player is a FMVP. Frazier/Dumars/Hondo/Daniels/Walton. No my team is not 3pt dependent and with Frasier, Dumars, Walton and Hondo I get great passing to find more quality looks. I think my fast break will also be very effective with Walton/Love outlet passing to start the break or find early offense.