Is Tiger Woods considered disgraced?

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Re: OT: Is Tiger Woods considered disgraced? 

Post#21 » by Hot Water » Mon Aug 4, 2014 2:30 pm

How can he not be considered disgraced?

Went from the most dominant athlete in sports that was streamlining towards every significant golf record (including the crown jewel of Jack's major record), not to mention the world's first billionaire athlete with an ironclad brand… to having his entire image come crumbling down around him in a wild and shocking sex scandal, losing hundreds of millions of dollars in a messy and public divorce, losing virtually all of his major endorsements, and struggling on the golf course to come anywhere close to his previous standards of success.

And yes I understand that he's still a threat to win from week to week when he's healthy (which also rarely happens these days) but this was still a stunning and unprecedented fall from grace.
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Re: OT: Is Tiger Woods considered disgraced? 

Post#22 » by G R E Y » Mon Aug 4, 2014 2:31 pm

JN wrote:
GREY 1769 wrote:
JN wrote:
How many times will the haters move the goalposts.

Is anything I said not factual? Tiger's stated goal is to break Jack's record. His chances have dwindled. He won tournaments, yet lost #1. But the reference point isn't "it's not like he hasn't done anything" it's "beat Jack's majors total." It seems you're the one who is moving goal posts. You need to call someone a hater for stating facts? Get some perspective.


You may want to re-read your first post

You do realize what you said in your very first comment in this thread right? You agreed with OP that he was a disgraced golfer. Not just a disgraced person (which may or may not be the case), but a disgraced golfer.

I presented the fact that he won 8 times in 2012 and 2013 and was world #1 and wondered how that could be considered a disgraced golfer,

You simply did not address this. The reference point as you mentioned above is not "BEAT JACK'S MAJOR TOTAL". The reference point is the comment you agreed to "HE IS A DISGRACED GOLFER". As I said you moved the goalposts from one post to another.

So I will give you another chance. How is a player that won 5 times in 2013 and was world #1 a disgraced golfer?

Ok fair point, but I did address the wins - I think they simply fall short of his standards and expectations. Disgraced" golfer, then, because despite his recovering his game to some extent - you point out to which extent - he has fallen from his once untouchable position. I also countered with the fact that just because he had a good 2013 (finally a good year, mind), despite that, he has not been able to maintain his lead over others, not only not winning majors - which IS important, because that's how HE measures success, and given his prodigious talent and run up until his personal life exploded, how others understood his goals.

In short, he has not been the same player since. A good 2013, with what came before, and now coming after, does not really change that because he was a model of consistency at the top, gunning for the top record, well on his way, now off course from it. Until he can start winning majors again, winning tournaments falls short.

You are, I think, equating 'disgraced' with not winning anything whereas my reference point is his stated goal of beating Jack's majors total. He'll at least need to show more consistency and stay on top, let alone win a major to drop the label.
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Re: OT: Is Tiger Woods considered disgraced? 

Post#23 » by G R E Y » Mon Aug 4, 2014 2:37 pm

hankscorpioLA wrote:
GREY 1769 wrote:
JN wrote:
How many times will the haters move the goalposts.

Is anything I said not factual? Tiger's stated goal is to break Jack's record. His chances have dwindled. He won tournaments, yet lost #1. But the reference point isn't "it's not like he hasn't done anything" it's "beat Jack's majors total." It seems you're the one who is moving goal posts. You need to call someone a hater for stating facts? Get some perspective.


Perspective? I dunno...you seem to have the hate on pretty hard for Tiger.

I mean...you have posted three times about his "failure" to catch Jack Niklaus, yet you haven't mentioned injuries once.

Well here is the full tally:

2002 - left knee ACL surgery
2007 - ruptures left knee ACL
2008 - left knee ACL surgery
2008 - two stress fractures in left tibia
2008 - reconstructive surgery on left knee ACL
2008 - ruptures achilles tendon in right leg
2010 - withdraws from TPC with neck pain
2010 - receives cortisone for right achilles
2011 - sprain of left knee MCL and achilles
2011 - misses US Open
2012 - injures left achilles
2013 - left elbow injury
2014 - surgery to repair a pinched back nerve
2014 - re-injures back

The first time Jack Niklaus had surgery was when he was 44.

And I'm about to mention the majors argument again - please tell me whether he won majors after injuries before his personal life blew up, and whether he won majors after injuries after his personal life blew up. There seems to be a definite turning point, and injuries aren't it. Until he wins another major, it's hard to argue that he's "back." (I mean a return to full form, not a bad pun).
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Re: OT: Is Tiger Woods considered disgraced? 

Post#24 » by Kevin Willis » Mon Aug 4, 2014 3:09 pm

Hot Water wrote:How can he not be considered disgraced?

Went from the most dominant athlete in sports that was streamlining towards every significant golf record (including the crown jewel of Jack's major record), not to mention the world's first billionaire athlete with an ironclad brand… to having his entire image come crumbling down around him in a wild and shocking sex scandal, losing hundreds of millions of dollars in a messy and public divorce, losing virtually all of his major endorsements, and struggling on the golf course to come anywhere close to his previous standards of success.

And yes I understand that he's still a threat to win from week to week when he's healthy (which also rarely happens these days) but this was still a stunning and unprecedented fall from grace.


You are equating FALL FROM GRACE with DISGRACE. A top money manager for a brokerage earning 10 million a year for 10 yrs is the darling of the investment industry. Golden child, untouchable. If he has two years of only making 1 million a year after a bitter divorce then yes he FELL FROM GRACE because he is no longer this untouchable golden child but he's not a DISGRACE. He still making 1 mill a year which is considerably better than most ppl. A DISGRACE would be if Tiger lost all his money and resorting to stealing from the players pension fund or became John Daly.

He's a child prodigy that became a nympho. But he at least lived up to his prodigy status unlike say, Michelle Wie, and is fairly well-liked on tour by his fellow golfers.
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Re: OT: Is Tiger Woods considered disgraced? 

Post#25 » by hankscorpioLA » Mon Aug 4, 2014 3:11 pm

GREY 1769 wrote:
hankscorpioLA wrote:
GREY 1769 wrote:Is anything I said not factual? Tiger's stated goal is to break Jack's record. His chances have dwindled. He won tournaments, yet lost #1. But the reference point isn't "it's not like he hasn't done anything" it's "beat Jack's majors total." It seems you're the one who is moving goal posts. You need to call someone a hater for stating facts? Get some perspective.


Perspective? I dunno...you seem to have the hate on pretty hard for Tiger.

I mean...you have posted three times about his "failure" to catch Jack Niklaus, yet you haven't mentioned injuries once.

Well here is the full tally:

2002 - left knee ACL surgery
2007 - ruptures left knee ACL
2008 - left knee ACL surgery
2008 - two stress fractures in left tibia
2008 - reconstructive surgery on left knee ACL
2008 - ruptures achilles tendon in right leg
2010 - withdraws from TPC with neck pain
2010 - receives cortisone for right achilles
2011 - sprain of left knee MCL and achilles
2011 - misses US Open
2012 - injures left achilles
2013 - left elbow injury
2014 - surgery to repair a pinched back nerve
2014 - re-injures back

The first time Jack Niklaus had surgery was when he was 44.

And I'm about to mention the majors argument again - please tell me whether he won majors after injuries before his personal life blew up, and whether he won majors after injuries after his personal life blew up. There seems to be a definite turning point, and injuries aren't it. Until he wins another major, it's hard to argue that he's "back." (I mean a return to full form, not a bad pun).


You are creating a narrative to suit your opinion.

Unfortunately, the facts do not bear this out.

The last major that Woods won was the 2008 US Open. Immediately afterwards he had reconstructive surgery on his left ACL and missed the next 9 months. Kinda hard of you to argue that the injuries weren't the turning point when he had the most significant surgery of his career immediately after he won his last Major.

If you look at his career, you see that he had two "peak" periods - 1997-2002 and 2005-2008. Both of those peak periods ended due to surgery on his left knee. He recovered well after the first one. But after the second, more serious surgery, he has not only not fully returned to form, but he has started to see other parts of his body break down, which is very common when you try to compensate for a problem in one spot, especially a knee.

Also, lets look at his performances in Majors around the time of the scandal.

2009 PGA Championship was in August - he finished 2nd. The scandal hit between November 2009 and February 2010. In his next two Majors - 2010 Masters and US Open - he finished tied for 4th. Kind of hard to argue that the scandal was the major turning point when his performances at the majors surrounding the event were so similar.

So lets sum up....

Two surgeries on his left knee, both of which ended periods of tremendous productivity. And since his last Majors win, he has started to experience injuries to other parts of his body, a sign that things are starting to break down physically. Meanwhile, in terms of his performance at the time, the scandal appeared to have absolutely no impact.
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Re: OT: Is Tiger Woods considered disgraced? 

Post#26 » by Young_Buc » Mon Aug 4, 2014 3:16 pm

Tiger was specifically targeted by the "old boys club" in professional golf. People like Michael Jordan, Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb have done FAR FAR worse things than Tiger and they are icons in their sports. The fact that he is held to this obscure standard is clear.
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Re: OT: Is Tiger Woods considered disgraced? 

Post#27 » by G R E Y » Mon Aug 4, 2014 3:25 pm

hankscorpioLA wrote:
GREY 1769 wrote:
hankscorpioLA wrote:
Perspective? I dunno...you seem to have the hate on pretty hard for Tiger.

I mean...you have posted three times about his "failure" to catch Jack Niklaus, yet you haven't mentioned injuries once.

Well here is the full tally:

2002 - left knee ACL surgery
2007 - ruptures left knee ACL
2008 - left knee ACL surgery
2008 - two stress fractures in left tibia
2008 - reconstructive surgery on left knee ACL
2008 - ruptures achilles tendon in right leg
2010 - withdraws from TPC with neck pain
2010 - receives cortisone for right achilles
2011 - sprain of left knee MCL and achilles
2011 - misses US Open
2012 - injures left achilles
2013 - left elbow injury
2014 - surgery to repair a pinched back nerve
2014 - re-injures back

The first time Jack Niklaus had surgery was when he was 44.

And I'm about to mention the majors argument again - please tell me whether he won majors after injuries before his personal life blew up, and whether he won majors after injuries after his personal life blew up. There seems to be a definite turning point, and injuries aren't it. Until he wins another major, it's hard to argue that he's "back." (I mean a return to full form, not a bad pun).


You are creating a narrative to suit your opinion.

Unfortunately, the facts do not bear this out.

The last major that Woods won was the 2008 US Open. Immediately afterwards he had reconstructive surgery on his left ACL and missed the next 9 months. Kinda hard of you to argue that the injuries weren't the turning point when he had the most significant surgery of his career immediately after he won his last Major.

If you look at his career, you see that he had two "peak" periods - 1997-2002 and 2005-2008. Both of those peak periods ended due to surgery on his left knee. He recovered well after the first one. But after the second, more serious surgery, he has not only not fully returned to form, but he has started to see other parts of his body break down, which is very common when you try to compensate for a problem in one spot, especially a knee.

Also, lets look at his performances in Majors around the time of the scandal.

2009 PGA Championship was in August - he finished 2nd. The scandal hit between November 2009 and February 2010. In his next two Majors - 2010 Masters and US Open - he finished tied for 4th. Kind of hard to argue that the scandal was the major turning point when his performances at the majors surrounding the event were so similar.

So lets sum up....

Two surgeries on his left knee, both of which ended periods of tremendous productivity. And since his last Majors win, he has started to experience injuries to other parts of his body, a sign that things are starting to break down physically. Meanwhile, in terms of his performance at the time, the scandal appeared to have absolutely no impact.

Until/unless he wins another major, you cannot argue that conclusively. I'm not saying injuries do not impact any athlete, but his fall from grace was cumulative in terms of confronting what happened to his family, then the public, sponsors dropping him, the stress from all of that public scrutiny, from his polished reputation being severely tarnished, his divorce, you really believe, had NOTHING to do with his game? It's not just his performance at the time, we're talking about his play since until now. No majors. No doubt injuries contribute, but being in a position where your world has been exposed and you have to do a serious life shift, I have no doubt, also impacted on course results.
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Re: OT: Is Tiger Woods considered disgraced? 

Post#28 » by God Squad » Mon Aug 4, 2014 3:26 pm

Heffernan wrote:Image

Does the whole scandal, the recent injuries, and the inability to make a noteworthy impact in his sport to overshadow the scandal make him disgraced? Should newspapers refer to Tiger as "the disgraced golfer"? I know it's not Raptor talk, but it's pretty dry on here right now.

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Re: OT: Is Tiger Woods considered disgraced? 

Post#29 » by Hot Water » Mon Aug 4, 2014 3:47 pm

Kevin Willis wrote:
Hot Water wrote:How can he not be considered disgraced?

Went from the most dominant athlete in sports that was streamlining towards every significant golf record (including the crown jewel of Jack's major record), not to mention the world's first billionaire athlete with an ironclad brand… to having his entire image come crumbling down around him in a wild and shocking sex scandal, losing hundreds of millions of dollars in a messy and public divorce, losing virtually all of his major endorsements, and struggling on the golf course to come anywhere close to his previous standards of success.

And yes I understand that he's still a threat to win from week to week when he's healthy (which also rarely happens these days) but this was still a stunning and unprecedented fall from grace.


You are equating FALL FROM GRACE with DISGRACE. A top money manager for a brokerage earning 10 million a year for 10 yrs is the darling of the investment industry. Golden child, untouchable. If he has two years of only making 1 million a year after a bitter divorce then yes he FELL FROM GRACE because he is no longer this untouchable golden child but he's not a DISGRACE. He still making 1 mill a year which is considerably better than most ppl. A DISGRACE would be if Tiger lost all his money and resorting to stealing from the players pension fund or became John Daly.

He's a child prodigy that became a nympho. But he at least lived up to his prodigy status unlike say, Michelle Wie, and is fairly well-liked on tour by his fellow golfers.


Tiger Woods is not 'fairly well-liked on tour by his fellow golfers', and in fact, is pretty notorious for being something of an **** to anyone who is outside of the chosen few that he considers himself to be friends with.

And when I hear the term 'disgraced', I think it encompasses a lot more than just his on the course play. He didn't just 'go through a divorce' like in your investment banker analogy. He went from being one of the richest and most powerful people in sports to getting attacked by the mother of his children with a golf club and crashing his SUV on their front lawn, having literally dozens and dozens of women come forward with tales of their sexual escapades (ranging anywhere from Denny's waitresses to porn stars), having XXX parody films produced with aforementioned porn stars, having aforementioned porn stars leak racy texts, have another woman make a claim of a love child with Tiger, multiple awkward and humiliating press conferences where he had to face this music publicly, and big company after big company sending out news releases to announce that they no longer wanted anything to do with him… all while it played out on the cover of virtually every tabloid magazine across the entire world for close to a year straight.


You really think Michelle Wie falling short of her early expectations makes her more disgraced than all of that? Yikes.
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Re: OT: Is Tiger Woods considered disgraced? 

Post#30 » by bakafool » Mon Aug 4, 2014 3:55 pm

Tiger just has to get healthy. Maybe hook up with Butch Harmon again to fix his broken drive.
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Re: OT: Is Tiger Woods considered disgraced? 

Post#31 » by gamer4Life » Mon Aug 4, 2014 4:03 pm

Golf is boring to watch.
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Re: OT: Is Tiger Woods considered disgraced? 

Post#32 » by HeartBreaking » Mon Aug 4, 2014 4:06 pm

you have to be naive to think that he hasn't been disgraced in some way as a human being. The dude had one of the cleanest images ever, the scandal changes the perception people have for him as a person.
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Re: OT: Is Tiger Woods considered disgraced? 

Post#33 » by Geddy » Mon Aug 4, 2014 4:16 pm

Even though he isn't doing well at the moment (injured again) he is still the biggest name in the sport. All it takes is a major win and everyone will forget the past.
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Re: OT: Is Tiger Woods considered disgraced? 

Post#34 » by chargerxthirty » Mon Aug 4, 2014 4:24 pm

The "Scandal" is irrelevant to me and it should be to anyone else as well.

Looking at the person as an athlete and a golfer, he's the best.... even STILL... he got back to #1 as a Shadow of his former self so get **** real if you think this guy is disgraced.

As for Elin Nordegren or however you spell that twats name.... am I supposed to feel bad for her? There's a solid chance she got involved in that marriage knowing what Tiger was like already hoping to make a big score.

The only dumb move buddy ever made was getting married otherwise he'd probably still be dominating the planet and plowing his way through more hot trim....

This is why I got so angry that Jonas is a moron... can't believe that dude got married already... what is he.. 21, 22? smh....
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Re: OT: Is Tiger Woods considered disgraced? 

Post#35 » by Kevin Willis » Mon Aug 4, 2014 4:32 pm

Hot Water wrote:
Kevin Willis wrote:
Hot Water wrote:How can he not be considered disgraced?

Went from the most dominant athlete in sports that was streamlining towards every significant golf record (including the crown jewel of Jack's major record), not to mention the world's first billionaire athlete with an ironclad brand… to having his entire image come crumbling down around him in a wild and shocking sex scandal, losing hundreds of millions of dollars in a messy and public divorce, losing virtually all of his major endorsements, and struggling on the golf course to come anywhere close to his previous standards of success.

And yes I understand that he's still a threat to win from week to week when he's healthy (which also rarely happens these days) but this was still a stunning and unprecedented fall from grace.


You are equating FALL FROM GRACE with DISGRACE. A top money manager for a brokerage earning 10 million a year for 10 yrs is the darling of the investment industry. Golden child, untouchable. If he has two years of only making 1 million a year after a bitter divorce then yes he FELL FROM GRACE because he is no longer this untouchable golden child but he's not a DISGRACE. He still making 1 mill a year which is considerably better than most ppl. A DISGRACE would be if Tiger lost all his money and resorting to stealing from the players pension fund or became John Daly.

He's a child prodigy that became a nympho. But he at least lived up to his prodigy status unlike say, Michelle Wie, and is fairly well-liked on tour by his fellow golfers.


Tiger Woods is not 'fairly well-liked on tour by his fellow golfers', and in fact, is pretty notorious for being something of an **** to anyone who is outside of the chosen few that he considers himself to be friends with.

And when I hear the term 'disgraced', I think it encompasses a lot more than just his on the course play. He didn't just 'go through a divorce' like in your investment banker analogy. He went from being one of the richest and most powerful people in sports to getting attacked by the mother of his children with a golf club and crashing his SUV on their front lawn, having literally dozens and dozens of women come forward with tales of their sexual escapades (ranging anywhere from Denny's waitresses to porn stars), having XXX parody films produced with aforementioned porn stars, having aforementioned porn stars leak racy texts, have another woman make a claim of a love child with Tiger, multiple awkward and humiliating press conferences where he had to face this music publicly, and big company after big company sending out news releases to announce that they no longer wanted anything to do with him… all while it played out on the cover of virtually every tabloid magazine across the entire world for close to a year straight.


You really think Michelle Wie falling short of her early expectations makes her more disgraced than all of that? Yikes.




I think you took the broker analogy a little too literally. What I meant was he went through a life changing event that would impact a regular person's ability to perform. Being a freak is not a crime. You never met a nympho I guess, it's more of a compulsion similar to gambling. Probably related to being a child prodigy and the pressures involved, many child prodigies have substance dependencies and erratic behaviour as adults. So listing all his digressions mean little to me - it all addresses one behaviour and since I haven't met a perfect human being I think he can be forgiven of it.

I never said she Michelle Wie was a disgrace. I said, and I quote, 'But he at least lived up to his prodigy status'. In that case Michelle Wie did not and Tiger did. As a golfer he became the best of our generation. Don't twist my words...
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Re: OT: Is Tiger Woods considered disgraced? 

Post#36 » by Hot Water » Mon Aug 4, 2014 4:45 pm

Kevin Willis wrote:
Hot Water wrote:
Kevin Willis wrote:
You are equating FALL FROM GRACE with DISGRACE. A top money manager for a brokerage earning 10 million a year for 10 yrs is the darling of the investment industry. Golden child, untouchable. If he has two years of only making 1 million a year after a bitter divorce then yes he FELL FROM GRACE because he is no longer this untouchable golden child but he's not a DISGRACE. He still making 1 mill a year which is considerably better than most ppl. A DISGRACE would be if Tiger lost all his money and resorting to stealing from the players pension fund or became John Daly.

He's a child prodigy that became a nympho. But he at least lived up to his prodigy status unlike say, Michelle Wie, and is fairly well-liked on tour by his fellow golfers.


Tiger Woods is not 'fairly well-liked on tour by his fellow golfers', and in fact, is pretty notorious for being something of an **** to anyone who is outside of the chosen few that he considers himself to be friends with.

And when I hear the term 'disgraced', I think it encompasses a lot more than just his on the course play. He didn't just 'go through a divorce' like in your investment banker analogy. He went from being one of the richest and most powerful people in sports to getting attacked by the mother of his children with a golf club and crashing his SUV on their front lawn, having literally dozens and dozens of women come forward with tales of their sexual escapades (ranging anywhere from Denny's waitresses to porn stars), having XXX parody films produced with aforementioned porn stars, having aforementioned porn stars leak racy texts, have another woman make a claim of a love child with Tiger, multiple awkward and humiliating press conferences where he had to face this music publicly, and big company after big company sending out news releases to announce that they no longer wanted anything to do with him… all while it played out on the cover of virtually every tabloid magazine across the entire world for close to a year straight.


You really think Michelle Wie falling short of her early expectations makes her more disgraced than all of that? Yikes.




I think you took the broker analogy a little too literally. What I meant was he went through a life changing event that would impact a regular person's ability to perform. Being a freak is not a crime. You never met a nympho I guess, it's more of a compulsion similar to gambling. Probably related to being a child prodigy and the pressures involved, many child prodigies have substance dependencies and erratic behaviour as adults. So listing all his digressions mean little to me - it all addresses one behaviour and since I haven't met a perfect human being I think he can be forgiven of it.

I never said she Michelle Wie was a disgrace. I said, and I quote, 'But he at least lived up to his prodigy status'. In that case Michelle Wie did not and Tiger did. As a golfer he became the best of our generation. Don't twist my words...


You've completely lost me. Didn't you use John Daly - a man with his own addictions and substance abuse issues - as an example of someone who is truly disgraced?

And I was under the impression that disgraced basically meant to bring shame or dishonour upon. I don't think behaviour that is caused by impulses or addictions automatically gets absolved from this label.
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Re: OT: Is Tiger Woods considered disgraced? 

Post#37 » by will » Mon Aug 4, 2014 4:45 pm

OP done been spoiled by the greatness of Tiger. Saying he's disgraced. SMH
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Re: OT: Is Tiger Woods considered disgraced? 

Post#38 » by TorontoBaller » Mon Aug 4, 2014 5:02 pm

Green Backpack wrote:Tiger needs to stop trying to be a good guy and go buy some hookers. He needs to get his mojo back


this, this and this.

he needs to say

F*** IT!

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And go win some ****.
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Re: OT: Is Tiger Woods considered disgraced? 

Post#39 » by mrsocko » Mon Aug 4, 2014 5:31 pm

'He couild be referred to disgraced if the golf writers had any balls and wrote about his steroid abuse. He's been linked with docors involved wth steroid investigations and nobody gets into that. PGA is afriad to cook there golden goose so they try to cover this up. This more than the cheating makes him a dispicable human being
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Re: OT: Is Tiger Woods considered disgraced? 

Post#40 » by bballsparkin » Mon Aug 4, 2014 5:52 pm

hankscorpioLA wrote:Perspective? I dunno...you seem to have the hate on pretty hard for Tiger.

I mean...you have posted three times about his "failure" to catch Jack Niklaus, yet you haven't mentioned injuries once.

Well here is the full tally:

2002 - left knee ACL surgery
2007 - ruptures left knee ACL
2008 - left knee ACL surgery
2008 - two stress fractures in left tibia
2008 - reconstructive surgery on left knee ACL
2008 - ruptures achilles tendon in right leg
2010 - withdraws from TPC with neck pain
2010 - receives cortisone for right achilles
2011 - sprain of left knee MCL and achilles
2011 - misses US Open
2012 - injures left achilles
2013 - left elbow injury
2014 - surgery to repair a pinched back nerve
2014 - re-injures back

The first time Jack Niklaus had surgery was when he was 44.


I don't follow golf. But why the heck does Tiger have so many injuries? Yeesh. Over use? I guess I get the back issues. The one time I went golfing my back ached big time after.

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