Warrick: Keep,S&T or let go?

[GrizzledGrizzFan]

{quote]The Griz have Mayo now, as well as Conley and Jaric.[/quote]

And it's not nearly enough.

Look, Warrick is what he is. The bottom line is that when he's been an significant component of the Grizz's offense over the years he's been here - they've lost. No, I'm not pinning it all on him, but he's limited - really limited - in a bad sort of way.

However, I do agree with you on Darko though. The Grizz aren't using him enough right now. He should (IMO) be paired with Marc as often as possible. They SHOULD be wreaking havoc on teams with their passing skills alone nightly. Honestly my only gripe with Darko's game is that he insists on finessing the ball when he's right at the rim, instead of finishing with authority. I've seen and sensed complete changes in other teams front lines attitudes when Darko comes out aggressively and dunks on people. The intimidation factor is huge. Yet, he seems to be in love with being cute and trying to wrist flick the ball in more often than not. But that's knit picking.

[SD2042]

[quote="rag-time4"]


Well Wright certainly wasn't only player playing his best while being undersized at the center position, because Stromile Swift also played center, and played better than Wright did. Remember how the team always got off to slow starts?? Howcome Swift isn't known for being tenacious and a great lunch pail guy when he was more effective than Wright was even though he was even more undersized?

I disagree that Wright was being played for defense. His offense and defense are both poor. I think he was being played for his toughness and physical play in the paint. As you said, he was the team enforcer if you will. I think that Jake is the same. Jake sucks offensively and defensively, just like Wright, but he's also a physical presence in the paint.

If Wright was still with the team in 06/07 I would have been all in favor of playing him at center with Swift at PF, rather than Swift at center and Warrick at PF. But they didn't have Wright, they had Jake.

[quote]

Stro played at center at times, but not nearly as much as Wright had to do during his few yrs with the Grizzlies. Stro was and is underweight to play the position on the nightly basis. Why else he barely had to play center for the Grizz. Only in rare matchup advantages the Grizz made had used Stro at the position if they felt there was a chance the mismatch could've been exploited.

As for Wright, his offensive production was ok at times. He didn't need to have the ball in his hands to be effective like that. As for his defense, maybe the reason why you're stating Ren's defense was poor is probably due to the matchups he would draw on game nights. Like I said earlier, he drew the best PFs' and Cs' like TD, Amare, Shaq, KG, and so on. Jake have the body size to be an impending force in the post. The problem is that he never learned how to utilized that to his advantage and that made him a liability overall.

As for the Darko issue. I have to agree with you on that. Darko is more comfortable being faced to the basket as he demonstrateed when he was with the Magic from three yrs ago. At least from that standpoint, his mid-range jumper was fluid enough to be consistant and spread out the offense. The Grizz here are doing a poor job utilizing his offensive set to the team's advantage. That's terrible that they aren't recognizing the mistakes the coaching staff continues to make.

[rag-time4]

Stro played at center at times, but not nearly as much as Wright had to do during his few yrs with the Grizzlies. Stro was and is underweight to play the position on the nightly basis. Why else he barely had to play center for the Grizz. Only in rare matchup advantages the Grizz made had used Stro at the position if they felt there was a chance the mismatch could've been exploited.

As for Wright, his offensive production was ok at times. He didn't need to have the ball in his hands to be effective like that. As for his defense, maybe the reason why you're stating Ren's defense was poor is probably due to the matchups he would draw on game nights. Like I said earlier, he drew the best PFs' and Cs' like TD, Amare, Shaq, KG, and so on. Jake have the body size to be an impending force in the post. The problem is that he never learned how to utilized that to his advantage and that made him a liability overall.

As for the Darko issue. I have to agree with you on that. Darko is more comfortable being faced to the basket as he demonstrateed when he was with the Magic from three yrs ago. At least from that standpoint, his mid-range jumper was fluid enough to be consistant and spread out the offense. The Grizz here are doing a poor job utilizing his offensive set to the team's advantage. That's terrible that they aren't recognizing the mistakes the coaching staff continues to make.

Stro played center in the vast majority of games he played in during the glory days. Remember when Wright would come out, Swift would come in.

Offensively, Wright had more shot attempts per game than Swift back in those days, yet Swift shot a higher percentage and got to the foul line more. Swift showed more aggression and tenacity than Wright did offensively, yet the media was always calling Wright the hard hat guy...

As for Wright's defense, it's his team defense that I really didn't like. His shot blocking and overall defensive presence was a lot weaker than Stro's was. I always thought the best thing that Wright was good at was his rebounding and being a factor on the glass, which I think is the same thing Jake was best at. I would take either of them over Warrick as a big man though.

Look, Warrick is what he is. The bottom line is that when he's been an significant component of the Grizz's offense over the years he's been here - they've lost. No, I'm not pinning it all on him, but he's limited - really limited - in a bad sort of way.

However, I do agree with you on Darko though. The Grizz aren't using him enough right now. He should (IMO) be paired with Marc as often as possible. They SHOULD be wreaking havoc on teams with their passing skills alone nightly. Honestly my only gripe with Darko's game is that he insists on finessing the ball when he's right at the rim, instead of finishing with authority. I've seen and sensed complete changes in other teams front lines attitudes when Darko comes out aggressively and dunks on people. The intimidation factor is huge. Yet, he seems to be in love with being cute and trying to wrist flick the ball in more often than not. But that's knit picking.

You're right that they've lost when Warrick's been a big factor. However, it's always at the PF or C position. He's never had the chance to be a big part of the offense while playing SF.

And I remember that about Darko's finessing the ball haha! Good call there.

Maybe part of the problem and the reason they use Darko so much as a post player is that they don't see anyone else being better, as inconsistent as Darko is in that role. But then they haven't played Warrick at SF.

The Griz have a bunch of unorthodox players. They need to stop trying to force them into a conventional basketball system.

[jefe]

What about Wright made him tenacious? His terrible help defense? His constant cursing whenever he made a poor play (which was often)? He wasn't aggressive enough offensively and didnt get to the line enough. Lots of soft half-hooks and mediocre mid range shots.

The Griz would have been much better off starting Gasol at C and Swift at PF back in the glory days, but they were intent on babying Pau and giving him the luxury of a smaller defender and a smaller matchup on the glass. Gasol has played a lot of center for the Lakers and they got to the finals. I always have seen Wright as a scrub who got way more minutes than he deserved and held back the team from greater success. I don't see him being any better than Jake, and I certainly think Swift and Jake would have worked out better than Swift and Warrick, which was a disaster, though Swift didn't even play all that much.

What made Ren tenacious was is ability to become the enforcer the Grizz desperately needed at the center position. He was playing undersized and underweight for the position, but he didn't let that stop him at all. He brought that sense of leadership, fierce maddog mentality to the team when they had no one else capable of playing the position at the best ability that he did. Ren main purpose wasn't to the offensive end as it was to the defensive end. Most games, yes he would be at the mercy of your Shaqs' TDs' your Amares' and so on. Ren could only do so much given he was already undersize and weight to play the center position in the first place. And playing at the position in those conditions takes a toll on the body. Don't believe me, ask Brian Grant. He was forced to be in the same situation as Ren due to Alonzo Mourning's kidney sickness. And Grant is only 6'9 and 230lbs compare to Ren's 6'10 and 235-240lbs. What did Jake Tsakalidis brought to the table? Next to nothing.

Well Wright certainly wasn't only player playing his best while being undersized at the center position, because Stromile Swift also played center, and played better than Wright did. Remember how the team always got off to slow starts?? Howcome Swift isn't known for being tenacious and a great lunch pail guy when he was more effective than Wright was even though he was even more undersized?

I disagree that Wright was being played for defense. His offense and defense are both poor. I think he was being played for his toughness and physical play in the paint. As you said, he was the team enforcer if you will. I think that Jake is the same. Jake sucks offensively and defensively, just like Wright, but he's also a physical presence in the paint.

If Wright was still with the team in 06/07 I would have been all in favor of playing him at center with Swift at PF, rather than Swift at center and Warrick at PF. But they didn't have Wright, they had Jake.

His outside shot is good enough! Play him at SF with the current Griz roster and he becomes the best post-up player on the team.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you here. One thing Warrick currently has in his favor offensively is that he's typically guarded by 4's. When he's guarded by 3's his outside game evaporates.

One thing I'd revise in my position is that if we could keep Hak very inexpensively as a rotation filler and he was happy, go for it. 3 years at $9 million I could see, anything beyond that - no.

Warrick has always been good at exploiting his quickness advantage over other 4's, I'll give you that. But if he is played at 3 who cares about his outside game? The Griz have Mayo now, as well as Conley and Jaric. If Darko was allowed to play more, he's a good perimeter center on offense.

Actually I've noticed that the Griz use Darko as a low post player far too often. He seems more comfortable as a face up player further from the basket. Play Warrick at SF and use him as a low post player. He could be effective even against zone defenses, because he has experience playing against bigger defenders.

Say whatever you will about Ren, Stro and Tsak, but the fact is that Ren is currently a veteran lockerroom leader on a championship contender - despite being well past his best playing days - while Stro and Tsak are out of the league right now.

Honestly, it's the same old song and dance with you: Stro is/was always better than the guys that played in front of him - despite almost 9 years of changes in teams, coaches, players, systems, organizations, and scenery around him that indicate the contrary. I guess it's good for Stro that he has fans that have kept the faith after all these years of mediocrity from a number 2 overall pick, but I'm really astonished by your zeal in this regard.

[rag-time4]

Say whatever you will about Ren, Stro and Tsak, but the fact is that Ren is currently a veteran lockerroom leader on a championship contender - despite being well past his best playing days - while Stro and Tsak are out of the league right now.

Honestly, it's the same old song and dance with you: Stro is/was always better than the guys that played in front of him - despite almost 9 years of changes in teams, coaches, players, systems, organizations, and scenery around him that indicate the contrary. I guess it's good for Stro that he has fans that have kept the faith after all these years of mediocrity from a number 2 overall pick, but I'm really astonished by your zeal in this regard.

HA! Were scrubs like Bill Wennington and Will Perdue, or old guys like Robert Parrish and John Salley 'locker room leaders' on the great Bulls teams? That's absurd! Certainly you could say the same for Stromile in that case -- that he was a locker room leader on all the teams that have benched him! I thought he was the emotional leader of the Griz while I watched them... his passion off the bench consistently gave the team a lift, while the starting group consistently got the team off to slow starts.

The fact that the Griz suffered so much losing after drafting him was due in large part to not playing him. They were a bad team, used a number 2 overall pick on him, then hardly played him! How smart is that?

[SD2042]

Offensively, Wright had more shot attempts per game than Swift back in those days, yet Swift shot a higher percentage and got to the foul line more. Swift showed more aggression and tenacity than Wright did offensively, yet the media was always calling Wright the hard hat guy...

As for Wright's defense, it's his team defense that I really didn't like. His shot blocking and overall defensive presence was a lot weaker than Stro's was. I always thought the best thing that Wright was good at was his rebounding and being a factor on the glass, which I think is the same thing Jake was best at. I would take either of them over Warrick as a big man though.

Offensively yeah, Stro at times showed more aggression offensively than Wright did when he was motivated to show off on the court. The media made out Wright to be the hard hat guy simply due to his dediaction to do the best he could at the center position despite the disadvantages that faced him. As for Wright being a shot blocker, since when he was attempting to be or let alone was known to be a shot blocker? Warrick can't be conisder a big man due to his tweener status. He continously gets a team killed defensively. We know that along with a 6'5 Ruben Patterson when he wore out Hak in a game against the Bucks three yrs ago.

[Prospect Dong]

His outside shot is good enough! Play him at SF with the current Griz roster and he becomes the best post-up player on the team.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you here. One thing Warrick currently has in his favor offensively is that he's typically guarded by 4's. When he's guarded by 3's his outside game evaporates.

One thing I'd revise in my position is that if we could keep Hak very inexpensively as a rotation filler and he was happy, go for it. 3 years at $9 million I could see, anything beyond that - no.

I think that's just about bang on - ideally I'd want him signed to a contract starting at no more than 2.5 mil. It's obvious that he's been forced into a bigger role than his talents warrant, and that's going to remain the case wherever he goes. As an 8th man, playing maybe 15mpg behind a much better pf, I'd be happy to have him at half the MLE. And i actually think that, in this market, he won't command a great deal more than that, though he may want to sign with a winner and discourage the griz from matching, in which case I'm happy to let him go.