Fantasy Draft: Post-Jordan Era (1998-Present) R1: TMACFORMVP vs Snakebites

[Fadeaway_J]

Here is a quick list of what you need in your writeup.

1. Specific years for each player on your team
2. Rotations and minutes for each player
3. Reasoning as to why your team will win and/or why people should vote for you.

Do NOT vote in this thread until TMACFORMVP and Snakebites have submitted their writeups.

**First to 5 votes advances**

[Snakebites]

PG: John Wall 2014-15 - 14.8 FGA
SG: Reggie Miller 1999-00 - 12.9 FGA
SF: Scottie Pippen 1999-00 - 10.5 FGA
PF: Tim Duncan 2002-03 - 17.2 FGA
C: Marc Gasol 2012-13 - 10.9 FGA

Bench:

Chris Mullin- 98-99 7.4 FGA
Andre Roberson- 15-16 3.9 FGA
Raef Lafrentz- 00-01 10.4 FGA

Wall (38)/Pippen (12)
Miller (38)/Roberson (10)
Pippen (23)/Mullin (25)
Duncan (28)/Lafrentz (20)
Gasol (38)/Duncan (10)

TMACFORMVP was the first buddy I ever made on the Realgm Trade board SEVEN YEARS AGO. Its great to see him involved in one of these again, and facing off with him feels like old times again. He's built an imposing team with some great talent on it, and we look forward to the challenge of taking him on.

Lets do this, may the best team win.

Defense:

Our team is simply head and shoulders above the rest in this regard. We believe we've built an elite defense here, possibly the best in the game, and this holds true both on the perimeter and up front. At least one of Gasol and Duncan will be on the floor at all times, and for a hefty chunk of the time BOTH will be on the floor together. That makes it extremely difficult for anyone who needs to create offense near the basket. This includes both of our opponents primary scorers.

Roy, while a capable shooter, actually took about half of his shots inside of 10 feet, and about a third of his shots (and most of the ones that kept his FG% relatively high) within TWO feet. Our interior defense puts a real hamper on that, and TMAC really doesn't have anyone that can pull my defenders out among his front court players. Pair that with the fact that we have Scottie Pippen, who still had versatility to guard a guard, especially a large guard not known for explosive quickness, like Roy, and I think we can make things tough for Roy. We also think Wall matches up well with Damian Lillard. He won't be guarding Roy the entire time, but will probably see time on him. especially in critical situations.

But really, this is about Shaq. Nobody can fully stop Shaq, even in his second best year (2000-01), but we genuinely think we can do as well against him as anyone. We've got Tim Duncan, the man who reached the finals TWICE during Shaq's peak with the Lakers, and in the selected year outplayed him in a 6 game WCF series, and for good measure we've got another defensive player of the year in Marc Gasol, and AK47 and PJ Brown don't have enough reliable range to draw them away from the basket.

Overall, we really like the way our team matches up with TMAC's defensively. He has some high powered offensive players but has run into a really tough matchup here, where we have the right defenders in the right places to handle what he throws our way.

Offense:

We feature a very balanced offense. John Wall and Scottie Pippen bring the playmaking. Pippen was in effect a point forward in his time with the Blazers, and John Wall is an elite floor general in this game. He'll be setting Reggie Miller up for many corner threes, and we see the two of them having incredible chemistry together, like a better version of the chemistry Reggie had with Mark Jackson in the selected year. Tayshaun Prince is our team's strongest defensive perimeter player. I'm not sure who he guards here, but we're fairly confident that our perimeter offense will be able to operate effectively.

In the post, we have two remarkably versatile players. Our spacing is greatly helped by both of our big men's ability to hit mid range shots and operate in the high post, and we also have Chris Mullin and Raef Lafrentz, who have remarkable gravity to draw opposing defensive players out. Its an offense that has attack points just about everywhere. Look for John Wall and Tim Duncan to partner in an effective pick and roll that should attack our opponent's defense effectively. Our offense should have the ability to hit lots of threes and score lots of high percentage shots as well.

Andrei Kirilenko is a strong defensive combo forward, but he's hit a tough luck matchup here. Both Duncan and Gasol have back to the basket games to use their size advantage on him to its fullest potential.

Overall: Not much else to say. TMACFORMVP's team is balanced and talented, but we feel like we match up very well with what he brings to the table. Thank you for voting!

[TMACFORMVP]

Rotation
PG - Lillard (36) - Roy (12)
SG - Roy (26) - Korver (22)
SF - Prince (28) - AK (14) - Korver (6)
PF - AK (23) - Brown (25)
Cc - O'neal (43) - Brown (5)

Picks:

Round 1 (Pick 2): Shaquille O'neal (2000-01) - 19.2 FGA
Round 2 (Pick 15): Andrei Kirilenko (2005-06) - 10.6 FGA
Round 3 (Pick 15): Brandon Roy (2008-09) - 16.9 FGA
Round 4 (Pick 2): Kyle Korver (2014-2015) - 8.0 FGA
Round 5 (Pick 2): P.J. Brown (2002-2003) - 7.7 FGA
Round 6 (Pick 15): Tayshaun Prince (2003-2004) - 8.8 FGA
Round 7 (Pick 15): Damian Lillard (2013-2014) - 15.9 FGA
Round 8 (Pick 2): Mark Madsen (2006-2007) - 0.8 FGA

I find it funny I'm facing Snake in the first round. We basically discussed strategy for most of the draft just like we used to in the good 'ole days. A big reason for me wanting to play this game...after a couple year hiatus was seeing that an old timer like Snakebites was still actively involved in this game. Heck, I even logged into AIM for the first time in 3 years so I could chat with the guy...so I'm definitely excited for this matchup. Snake per usual has built a great team that will be tough to beat.

May the best team win, which my team fully intends to do so.

Hope this isn't too long - lot of this explains how my team works/fits as well. So I hope ya'll read it!

How we matchup defensively

I think Wall limits Snake’s team offensively. Wall is a good player, but in the context of this game, I think he's a player we can exploit. He’s simply not a shooter we need to respect in this game – a .523 TS%, 30% from three, and 17.6% from 3 in the post-season isn’t going to cut it; this allows us to essentially back off Wall and force him to shoot. We’re going to have AK on the weakside and Shaq in the paint defensively to limit his drives and sag off him with Lillard and Roy to help on Reggie coming off screens or Duncan in the paint. I hate to point it out, but there’s a reason the Wizards in Wall’s chosen season were 22nd in ORTG and have never even been an average team offensively during Wall’s career. It’s similar to the Rondo effect that’s going on here with Wall's fit on the team. It doesn’t help that Wall in both his playoff tenures is sub 50 TS% shooter either with noticeably high volume for a defensive playmaking PG.

I also think it’s worth mentioning Pippen’s shooting. He was a sub 33% three-point shooter, 53 TS% and was also even worse in the playoffs (.300) and 52% TS in the post-season on increased attempts.

Our defense is spearheaded by Shaq in the paint defensively and AK roaming the court. Add Prince’s length and/or PJ’s man defense PLUS the ability now to let Roy and mainly Lillard to “zone” up will allow us to matchup much better defensively.

Look we won’t stop Duncan, nobody stops Duncan. But we have the personnel to make him work with different able bodied defenders (AK/Brown and extended doses of Shaq). We have long arms on the perimeter to make entry passes harder, and we can afford to send an extra defender or two without worry to force him to give up the ball. That’s all you can ask for…I hope P.J. Brown isn’t underrated as a defender, he was a very good man defender and he's going to be playing nearly 30 mins for our team. If anyone even needs a recent example, there’s a reason he played the 6th most minutes in the ’08 Finals for the Celtics as a 38 y/o – his defense on Pau Gasol in that finals was excellent. Again, Duncan’s stats against PJ are more than fine, if not great, but with guys like AK when he's playing the 3 and Shaq as help, and double teams, it’s a completely different animal.

A lot of the work defensively v. Reggie is done before he gets the ball. And I think that’s where we excel defensively as a team. AK was a hugely impactful defender, and the main reason I took him in the second round over the likes of Sheed/Bosh is because his versatility on defense to switch out to the perimeter. Basically AK can OWN a part of the court defensively, similar to an elite CB in football. We liked that Shaq could own the paint defensively while allowing AK to roam and switch on virtually anyone. He uses his long arms and basketball IQ to create havoc. With Shaq making things difficult in the paint, AK all over the place, and Roy/Korver/Prince's length doing the best they can on Reggie, it at least won't be a "easy" series. Adding Lillard & Roy being able to defend different parts of the court because of the lack of shooting will make it even harder for Reggie to get the ball in places he likes.

Overall, we have a very strong defensive team. We don’t have anyone I would classify as a noticeably below average defender (cept maybe Lillard), and I’d say we have 4 elite defenders. We have matchups we can exploit and are able to cover the entire court defensively. The main point in all of this is…we have 4/7 elite defenders and allow Lillard and Roy/Korver to become assets defensively as well due to the lack of shooting from Snake's team at those positions. This is the key in the series.


How we matchup offensively

Shaq. Shaq. Shaq. He’s unstoppable in this game. I know it’s a bit callous to say I don’t care who anyone has to defend him, but I really don’t. This is the guy who did 26/17 in the first round v. Sheed/Sabonis, 33/17 v. Divac in the 2nd round, 27/13 v. Duncan/Robinson in the WCF and 33/16 v. the DPOY Mutombo in the Finals. And the Lakers went 15-1 in this stretch.

We don’t have anyone nearly as poor a shooter as Wall for Snake to exploit.

One thing I’d like to point about AK’s fit with my team is his backdoor cutting ability, especially for a guy who will be playing half of his minutes at the 4. If I had more time, I would have loved to have extracted game clips to show how good AK is at recognizing and getting open via simple cuts to the rim. And Shaq was one of the best I’ve ever seen at recognizing cutters and give and go’s from the post to find players for easy layups. AK admittedly isn’t a long range shooter, but we have enough guys that need to be respected that AK’s cutting and slashing provides spacing in an entirely different way, ESPECIALLY with his ability to put the ball on the floor and PASS the ball. AK was a terrific interior passer, and a huge reason I liked him is because he’s a natural ball mover that can get the ball to Shaq.

While Sheed/Bosh are better long range shooters, neither are on the same level as AK in terms of their ability to create spacing via cutting or passing the ball. AK in ’04 was the anchor for those Jazz teams – look at that roster – it’s a miracle they somehow finished .500 and that was all AK’s impact on both ends of the court, particularly with how the Jazz ran their offense through AK. I chose AK’s ’06 season where he was still the Jazz’s second best perimeter playmaker behind Deron. Keep in mind, while AK isn’t a three-point shooter, he was still an efficient and well above average offensive player with his cutting ability and passing (56% TS).

Roy is going to play a similar “Kobe” role on this team next to Shaq. A well rounded dynamic perimeter player (Roy actually shoots 8% higher from 3 on similar attempts compared to 01 Kobe). It’s a shame what happened to Roy’s career, but at his peak, he was an offensive stud anchoring the #1 offense in the league as the defacto PG in a primarily half court offense (the Blazers were 30th in pace, making it even more impressive). He averaged 27-28 PPG on 56 TS% in the first round series against the Rockets, who were 4th in DRTG boasting the wing combo of Battier and Artest, BOTH of whom were all defensive team that year. It is also worth mentioning that Roy shot 47%(!) from three with 1.3 makes that post season as well.

The thing I like the most about Roy though…really was his basketball IQ, unselfishness and playmaking and this is why I felt I was able to afford Lillard, since he's CONSIDERABLY less volume than someone like Kobe. Damian is a prolific three-point shooter capable of playing off of Roy and Roy being able to play off him. I think they will work together taking turns for the Kobe role and I couldn’t pass up how prolific Lillard was from three and what that meant for teams trying to defend Shaq. 2.7 makes, 39% from three, and most interestingly 60% of his threes were assisted. He and LMA anchored the #2 ORTG team in the NBA – see the trend that’s growing here? My perimeter offensive players who are primarily handling the ball were key components for the TOP offenses in the NBA.

I think the best thing after this is…nobody else has to change their game offensively. Korver is one of the best shooters ever. The dude made 2.9 threes per game, shot 49% from distance and had a 70% TS. That’s unreal and can’t be overstated offensively the sort of spacing and threat he provides playing roughly 30 MPG. And that’s key, because of his ability to play big minutes, the spacing impact he’ll have is much larger than someone like Mullin could potentially have on this series. Korver was an all-star because of his shooting! Prince will do what he does defensively, but move the ball offensively and most importantly represent a mediocre, but not awful threat from behind the arc as well (36%). P.J. Brown was a good mid range shooter, he averaged double digit PPG on 59% TS in the chosen season. These two, including Prince and AK will essentially be able to do the same exact things they did efficient offensively their entire career.

Snake has an elite defensive team, but I think I think our offense is proven v. elite D. Shaq is dominant and nearly unstoppable in this 2 year stretch. Lillard and Roy are a handful on the perimeter and LaFrentz/Duncan/Gasol are going to have more problems than what's seen initially with AK cutting and slashing to the rim to make plays. This will open up our offense even more. Korver will feast, and overall we just have more firepower on this side of the court.

Overall

I think defensively, we have more areas where we can exploit with our personnel. And offensively, I think our team is noticeably more efficient and versatile with less apparent weaknesses.

Best of luck Snake!

[8on]

Marc is skilled on both ends, but Shaq is bigger and brawnier. If you put Duncan on Shaq, perhaps it's a slightly better situation for Snake. I don't trust old man Miller to guard Roy, who's an underrated all around player that can do it all. I favor TMAC's overall situation.

vote: TMACFORMVP

[Snakebites]

Marc is skilled on both ends, but Shaq is bigger and brawnier. If you put Duncan on Shaq, perhaps it's a slightly better situation for Snake. I don't trust old man Miller to guard Roy, who's an underrated all around player that can do it all. I favor TMAC's overall situation.

vote: TMACFORMVP

I guess I figured most would assume Duncan was guarding Shaq, as he did in the playoffs that year (when he pretty soundly outplayed Shaq and beat him).

Lesson learned, though I'm guessing that wouldn't have impacted your vote.

[BdeRegt]

I think this is a really bad match up for TMACFORMVP. He built his team around Shaq but is really small in the front court besides Shaq. AK was a great player but he was not a post defender capable of guarding Gasol or Duncan. PJ Brown was solid off the bench as well but still not big enough to handle the size of Snakebites in my mind. I think Gasol and Duncan will make Shaq work. TMACFORMVP has 4 players who are at the best with the ball in their hands. I think SnakeBites actually has the edge up front and it will be enough to get the win.

Vote: Snakebites

[8on]

Marc is skilled on both ends, but Shaq is bigger and brawnier. If you put Duncan on Shaq, perhaps it's a slightly better situation for Snake. I don't trust old man Miller to guard Roy, who's an underrated all around player that can do it all. I favor TMAC's overall situation.

vote: TMACFORMVP

I guess I figured most would assume Duncan was guarding Shaq, as he did in the playoffs that year (when he pretty soundly outplayed Shaq and beat him).

Lesson learned, though I'm guessing that wouldn't have impacted your vote.

Miller isn't the high impact shooter you think he is, with only 165 made 3's in the chosen season. You don't have enough offensive variety (especially in your starting lineup - whether AK or Prince guards Pippen, you're not getting 15 points per game out of him), efficiency, or ability to penetrate and create free throw attempts. I think the frontcourts are as close as they probably get, but it's TMAC's sublime backcourt that does it for me. I've always liked Dame more than Wall. He's the kind of aggressive shooter that actually puts the ball in the hole. Wall might be big but I question his tenacity on the defensive end.

[damecurry]

I see the 4 as where this series is decided. Marc definitely cannot handle Shaq on his own and O'neal will have a massive series, but Duncan is there to help and AK is not a big enough offensive threat to draw Duncan's full attention. Whereas on the other end Shaq will have to mostly stick on Marc and his excellent mid-range jumper while I just can't see AK holding up against Tim. I love AK47 as a small-ball 4 in the modern game or in most matchups but in a fantasy situation like this I just can't see him dealing with prime Duncan he's too small and doesn't have the physicality to handle that imo. Wall will nullify lillard, I think Roy has a small advantage on Miller but it doesn't compensate for Duncan's advantage which I think decides this series.

Vote: Snakebites.

[Statlanta]

I love what Snakebites' has here with Duncan and Gasol to cover Shaq. I think Duncan can provide great help D with the non-threat of Kirilenko. On the other side Roy and Lillard is a great back court duo to pair with Shaq as half-court initiators to his attack. I like his big forward trio as they can slide between positions seamlessly. In the end as much as I love John Wall I don't think he will have enough people to benefit off his passing. I feel the offense will just sputter if Snakebites' has to roll out a Wall-Roberson-Pippen-big-big lineup given the duplication of Wall and Pippen's talents. With a different backcourt matchup I can overlook this especially given Wall's speed and Duncan's non floor spacing teams pre-2007 but against Damian Lillard I can't trust it. Roy and Lillard simply take this over the top for me.

Vote: TMACFORMVP

[Quotatious]

I like the supporting cast around Duncan more than around Shaq here. Don't like the fact that TMACFORMVP's team has a weak defensive backcourt. I'm actually a big fan of Roy and Lillard, but I don't think they fit really well together. I would much rather see a better defender who doesn't take so many shots alongside one of these guys, rather than both of them together. A guy like Wes Matthews (another former Blazer, coincidentally), would fit better with Lillard, and a guy like Jrue Holiday or Eric Bledsoe would be a better fit alongside Roy.

Meanwhile, the team around Duncan fits extremely well, and is talented enough that I think it would override the impact that Shaq makes. Ball movement and playmaking on on team Snakebites would be just amazing. There are great defenders, too - Duncan, Gasol, Pippen (wow, I mean WOW, that frontcourt is fantastic defensively), Wall and Reggie fit perfectly in the backcourt, and Wall is a great playmaker with pretty good defense, too.

Wall's scoring would be the X factor here. He should be able to score against Lillard more consistently than vice versa (even though Lillard is normally a much better scorer - Wall's defense just counters Lillard's offense better than vice versa, and Roy or Korver guarding Wall is not a good idea.

Vote - Snakebites.

[Snakebites]

Marc is skilled on both ends, but Shaq is bigger and brawnier. If you put Duncan on Shaq, perhaps it's a slightly better situation for Snake. I don't trust old man Miller to guard Roy, who's an underrated all around player that can do it all. I favor TMAC's overall situation.

vote: TMACFORMVP

I guess I figured most would assume Duncan was guarding Shaq, as he did in the playoffs that year (when he pretty soundly outplayed Shaq and beat him).

Lesson learned, though I'm guessing that wouldn't have impacted your vote.

Miller isn't the high impact shooter you think he is, with only 165 made 3's in the chosen season. You don't have enough offensive variety (especially in your starting lineup - whether AK or Prince guards Pippen, you're not getting 15 points per game out of him), efficiency, or ability to penetrate and create free throw attempts. I think the frontcourts are as close as they probably get, but it's TMAC's sublime backcourt that does it for me. I've always liked Dame more than Wall. He's the kind of aggressive shooter that actually puts the ball in the hole. Wall might be big but I question his tenacity on the defensive end.

Haha "only 165". He was fourth in the league in made 3 pointers that year, and made 2 per game, just a nose below prime Ray Allen. The game has changed in the last few years where people take more threes than they used to. That doesn't mean there were no impact 3 point shooters before 8 years ago, though. That's just silly.

Again, I have no problem with your vote. I I will however factually correct where I see inaccuracies.

[8on]

I'm not saying there were no impact shooters. I'm saying you need than 165 at a decent percentage. If Pip is covered well by AK and Prince and Wall takes as many shots as is listed, you'll have problems offensively. Roy and Lillard are the kinds of players that can get Reggie in foul trouble quickly. They both have a greater impact on that end than just shooting. I think TMAC's team is more well rounded, and that's all I have to say about this

[Fadeaway_J]

Went back and forth on this, but in the end I prefer the defensive matchups for Snakebites. Duncan and Gasol is a strong pairing to combat Shaq, especially since AK-47 isn't an outside threat, meaning whoever is guarding him can double to their heart's content. Wall and Pippen have the chops to limit Roy and Lillard. On TMAC's side, I think Duncan will annihilate Kirilenko in the post, and I don't think either he or Prince is the type who can chase Reggie around screens all game long (if he were more of an isolation guy Prince would be perfect). I actually like the Roy-Lillard backcourt offensively and that's what's been giving me pause, but then Lillard's poor defense is a minus.

Vote: Snakebites

[Snakebites]

I'm not saying there were no impact shooters.

But that is pretty much what you are saying.

The only people who got more threes that year were Gary Payton (poor percentage) and Ray Allen/Lindsay Hunter, both of whom made a difference of LESS than 7 shots per game over Reggie.

So yeah, I know you didn't say there were no impact shooters in that year, but that's what you're saying effectively amounts to.

Again, I don't think that was the main reason you voted against my team, and that's fine. Everything else you said was fair, even if I don't agree with all of it. I just think looking at volume of threes isn't fair.

[8on]

Not what I'm saying. "Only 165 3's" as the best shooter on your team, relative to Lillard. That's all

[Snakebites]

Not what I'm saying. "Only 165 3's" as the best shooter on your team, relative to Lillard. That's all

Comparing volume across eras like that is wrong. That's been my point.

If you do that then the only impact shooters ever came in the last several years when people started using more threes. Strategy changes not ability are the cause of the higher volume seen in recent years.

But whatever. Clearly we disagree here even on basic premise, and this isn't even about the matchup anymore.

[poopdamoop]

Hate going against a Shaq/Roy duo, but I'm voting Snakebites here. The frontcourt duel should be a great one, but I'm not a huge fan of Lillard and Roy together defensively.

[TMACFORMVP]

Congrats Snake! I honestly said it at the time when I picked AK that I think other players that I could have picked will be viewed as considerably better by the masses at that pick, but I wanted to be a little different than the normal traditional approach next to Shaq and see how that worked out. I really enjoyed the draft and discussion process in this particular game - GREAT pace.

[Fadeaway_J]

Congrats Snake! I honestly said it at the time when I picked AK that I think other players that I could have picked will be viewed as considerably better by the masses at that pick, but I wanted to be a little different than the normal traditional approach next to Shaq and see how that worked out. I really enjoyed the draft and discussion process in this particular game - GREAT pace.

Kirilenko is very good, but unfortunately I don't think he would have had the impact he's capable of in a series like this. Not too many teams are trotting out a 4-5 combo with the size and skill of Duncan and Gasol.

[Snakebites]

Congrats Snake! I honestly said it at the time when I picked AK that I think other players that I could have picked will be viewed as considerably better by the masses at that pick, but I wanted to be a little different than the normal traditional approach next to Shaq and see how that worked out. I really enjoyed the draft and discussion process in this particular game - GREAT pace.

Kirilenko is very good, but unfortunately I don't think he would have had the impact he's capable of in a series like this. Not too many teams are trotting out a 4-5 combo with the size and skill of Duncan and Gasol.

Yeah, I thought it was a tough luck matchup, a different opponent could have really showcased the utility of a guy like AK47.

I didn't really have a problem with his fit with Shaq either, which is why I didn't mention it in my writeup.

Thanks to everyone who voted. I look forward to competing in round 2.