Fantasy Draft: 90s & 00s Playoffs Round 2: dantley4prez vs square

[BdeRegt]

Here is a quick list of what you need in your writeup.

1. Specific years for each player on your team
2. Rotations and minutes for each player
3. Reasoning as to why your team will win and/or why people should vote for you.

Do NOT vote in this thread until both players have submitted their writeups.

**First to 5 votes advances**

[8on]

PG 1994-95 John Stockton (40) / 1997-98 Charlie Ward (8)
SG 1997-98 Eddie Jones (40) / 1997-98 Charlie Ward (8)
SF 2005-06 Shawn Marion (42) / 2006-07 Donyell Marshall (6)
PF 1991-92 Larry Nance (40) / 2006-07 Donyell Marshall (8)
C 1990-91 David Robinson (40) / 2007-08 Andrew Bynum (8)

Defensively, Stock should be able to put the clamps on Terry Porter, as Eddie should be able to do to Joe Johnson.

LeBron's main strength at this point in his career is driving to the hole and dishing out to shooters. With his shooters well defended by my backcourt, he'll have a harder time kicking out. We believe in Shawn Marion's ability to cover LeBron to the best of his ability. We also believe that interior defense will stop a number of LeBron's drives. Marion, Nance and Robinson are athletic and agile, and are all rim protectors. They should be able to contain LeBron inside. LeBron has never had to deal with a frontline this strong besides the one he faced in Orlando with Dwight Howard. He lost that series.

Offensively, Robinson should have his way over a smaller Ben Wallace. Amar'e won't really stop Nance's midrange jumpers. Porter and Johnson are average defenders, and with kickouts coming from Robinson, Nance and Marion, Jones and Stockton should have a great time shooting 3's.

Ultimately it comes down to the front court. Our best two way player is David Robinson. He should be able to derail LeBron's penetration as an elite rebounder, defender and rim protector. Ben Wallace is a great defensive player for smaller centers, but I don't see him stymying David Robinson's arsenal of efficient shots up to 18 feet.

Our frontcourt is primed to stop LeBron, plain and simple.

[Square]

Sorry, I'm traveling. I'll have a writeup up in a few hours when I can get to a computer. (Quick sneak preview: everything dantley said is wrong and my team is better.)

EDIT: Okay, the writeup is in below. Sorry for the delay.

[8on]

i think you meant to say

[pelifan]

I like the direction this match up is going.

[Square]

Team Square

Roster
G Terry Porter '91: 17 ppg, 4 rpg, 8 apg, 2 spg, 52/42/82 shooting, 63 TS%, +6.1 BPM, NBA All-Star
G Joe Johnson '05: 17 ppg, 5 rpg, 4 apg, 1 spg, 48 3P%
G Jason Terry '05: 12 ppg, 5 apg, 1 spg, 50/42/84 shooting, 61 TS%
G/F Aaron Mckie '97: 5 ppg, 3 rpg, 2 apg in 20 mpg, 40 3P%
F Lebron James '09: 28 ppg, 8 rpg, 7 apg, 2 spg, 1 bpg, 59 TS%, 32 PER, +13.0 BPM, All-D 1st team, All-NBA 1st team, NBA MVP
F Lamar Odom '09: 11 ppg, 8 rpg, 3 apg, 1 spg, 1 bpg in 30 mpg, 3rd in league in RAPM
F/C Amar'e Stoudemire '08: 25 ppg, 9 rpg, 2 bpg, 66 TS% (led league), All-NBA 2nd team
C Ben Wallace '03: 7 ppg, 15 rpg, 3 bpg, 1.4 spg, +5.1 BPM, +7 DBPM (most ever), All-D 1st team, All-NBA 2nd team, NBA DPoY

Rotation
G Terry Porter 26 / Jason Terry 22
G Joe Johnson 38 / Terry Porter 10
F Lebron James 40 / Aaron McKie 8
F Amar'e Stoudemire 28 / Lamar Odom 20
C Ben Wallace 38 / Amar'e Stoudemire 10

General Team Square Philosophy
'09 Lebron is a force of nature who put up the greatest individual statisical playoff run of all time (35/9/7/2/1, 62 TS%, 37 PER, +18 BPM, 0.4 WS/48). Pair him with peak Amar'e and you get a pick and roll that looks something like getting run over by two freight trains at once. Surround those guys with great shooters and passers -- Porter, JJ, Terry, Odom -- and you have a pretty unstoppable attack.

Defensively, we are anchored by peak Ben Wallace in a DPoY season, who had an incredible ability ro rebound and block shots while also stepping out to smother pick and rolls, force turnovers, and avoid fouls. The size and versatility of Lebron (All-D 1st team) and Odom (3rd in NBA in RAPM) is also key here, as is the size in our Porter/JJ backcourt. Even Amar'e is in his best defensive season, putting up 2 bpg.

Our bench has serious firepower with all three guys going on to win Sixth Man of the Year awards.

Matchup with dantley4prez's team

G 95 Stockton (40) / 98 Ward (8)
G 98 EJ (40) / 98 Ward (8)
F 06 Marion (42) / 07 Marshall (6)
F 92 Nance (40) / 07 Marshall 8
C 91 Robinson (40) / 07 Bynum (8)

Let's start here: Peak Lebron is the best player on the floor and the offense runs through him. He was capable of insane workloads at high efficiency and puts intense pressure on the defense. (I'm scratching my head a bit at dantley referencing the '09 ECF in his own favor, since (a) he has none of those players on his team, and (b) Lebron averaged 39/8/8/1/1 on 59 TS% in that series.) By the way, Lebron's career head-to-head numbers vs. Marion are 30/7/7 on 60 TS%.


The Lebron/Amar'e pick and roll with shooting around it is simply efficient and devastating. Yes, dantley has good shotblockers, but Lebron and Amar'e are two guys awesome at finishing through shot-blockers (witness Lebron's numbers vs. Dwight above, or Amar'e dropping 37 ppg on 61 TS% vs. prime Tim Duncan a couple of years earlier).

It's going to be especially hard for dantley to keep up with our scoring because Porter kills Stockton. Hilariously, dantley wrote that Stockton will "put the clamps on Terry Porter". In the '92 WCF vs. Stockton (Blazers won), Porter averaged 26/8 on 72 TS% (!) with only 1.3 turnovers/game. (Stockton averaged 14/11 on 54 TS% w/ 3.3 topg). In the '91 playoffs they had a closer duel, but Porter still averaged 22/7 on 63 TS%, Blazers winning again. What's the opposite of "clamps"?

We defend Robinson with Ben Wallace, an all-time great defender who can stay with DRob's face-up game off the bounce. Stockton and EJ get matched up with bigger guys in Porter and JJ to bother them. There's not as much playmaking on dantley's squad so we can really focus on Stockton/Robinson. On crucial late game possessions we can have Lebron smother Stockton as he did to Rose in the '11 playoffs (with Porter switching to EJ and JJ to Marion) -- I think this makes it pretty hard for dantley to score down the stretch.

Lastly I think we have an advantage on the bench. By '07 Donyell Marshall was a 17 mpg bench guy shooting 42%/35%. '09 Odom is a significantly better player. Prime Terry is better than Ward. Bynum at this point is 19 and not yet what he would become.

The best player on the floor plus: more playmaking, Porter killing Stockon, DPoY defense on Robinson, and a better bench. I think we take this.

[8on]

rebuttal:


second rebuttal:
referencing a bunch of irrelevant years (why would you use, for example, career LeBron vs. career Marion or '92 Porter? you're using '91 Porter. never seen anyone do that before) in an effort to spin the matchup your way? nice.

[damecurry]

Drob will be able to get his over the smaller but incredibly long and spry Ben Wallace, but so will lebron against marion. Both are good stoppers to at least contain those guys somewhat. Overall this is a tough matchup imo but I just like square's overall talent and fit a little better, he's got better depth too.

Vote: Square.

[Square]

second rebuttal:
referencing a bunch of irrelevant years (why would you use, for example, career LeBron vs. career Marion or '92 Porter? you're using '91 Porter. never seen anyone do that before) in an effort to spin the matchup your way? nice.

I quoted both the 91 and 92 playoffs in which Porter played great against Stockton -- you saying Stockton would "put the clamps on" Porter isn't an attempt to "spin the matchup your way"? I don't think either guy changed that drastically that the '92 WCF is irrelevant to '91 Porter vs. '95 Stockton.

[Laimbeer]

You almost have to have other compelling advantages to beat LeBron and I'm not seeing them here.

Vote: Square

[Fadeaway_J]

I don't think LeBron's head-to-head numbers against Marion are particularly relevant here. Peak Marion with Admiral and Nance as rim protectors is a different kettle of fish and I think they can do a solid job against LeBron. On the other hand, Amar'e as a roll man and good shooters in the backcourt is tough to combat, and Odom is the best bench player in this matchup. On the other other hand, Big Ben's offensive ineptitude will give Admiral more latitude to disrupt that action, and Nance is a good enough scorer to punish Amar'e's defensive lapses.

Dantley has a lot of guys who are more finishers than creators, but I guess I really trust Stockton's ability to get those guys quality looks, and defensively it's a really strong group from top to bottom.

Vote: dantley4prez

[poopdamoop]

If dantley4prez had one more star offensive player, like Mitch Richmond instead of Eddie Jones, he might have had my favourite team in the tournament. Even without that, I think he's got a small advantage at the guard positions and I don't think LeBron, Amare, and Odom can generate enough offense against a Marion/Nance/Robinson frontline.

Vote: dantley4prez

[wackbone]

I like dantley's team more defensively, but square's more offensively. Ultimately, I believe the difference here is playmakers. Who is taking the last shot? Who is creating that last shot. Maybe I'm naive, but dantley's only true creator is Stockton, whereas square has both JJ and Lebron. Additonally, square has a HUGE advantage in 3P%, which could also come into play. Add in Lebron and Wallace's elite defense. I love the Stockton/Robinson duo, definitely one of the best duos drafted, but I like square's overall team more.

Vote: square

[Timmaytime]

ughhhhh i've been dreading voting on this tbh...

Oh well.

Robinson's size advantage over Wallace will be significant, but Wallace will hold his own and Admiral doesn't have the pure strength to really make Wallace work harder. But who else is going to score on that team? Stockton isn't the kind of guy to go get his own. Marion on Lebron is about as good of a defender as you can ask for, especially with Robinson and Nance backing him up. Still, Lebron with shooters and an ideal PnR big who has a fairly favorable matchup as well (Nance isn't a great man defender) is pretty nasty...

In the end, elite offense with good enough defense prevails over elite defense with maybe not good enough offense.

Vote: Square

[DroppinDimes]

I'm going with Dantley here. LeBron is the best player in this series but I also like the overall D dantley has on this team. Jones/Marion/Nance with DRob prorecting the rim will make life tough for Bron. On the other side of the ball, he's got a good blend. Stockton can initiate the offense, EJ and DRob can create on offense and he's got shooting and post play. I believe wackbone knocked dantleys team saying only Stockton is a true creator on offense but Eddie Jones is more than capabale and DRob can create his own offense as well. Tough series but in the end, I like dantley's team more

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[goober]

I would vote Dantley in this matchup, I feel Marion in his prime gets pretty underrated. No one can stop LeBron, but Marion can certainly handle him. I like Dantleys fit a tiny bit more too

[Laimbeer]

Damn it's 4-4 isn't it?

[damecurry]

Damn it's 4-4 isn't it?

Yep need 1 more vote to decide.

[Fadeaway_J]

Come on, someone throw a vote in here so we can start the next round!

[BdeRegt]

Vote: Dantley

I really don't like the fit of LeBron/Amar'e/Ben/Odom in the front court. I think there is a lot of issues there and Dantley has a team to take advantage.