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Official John Wall Appreciation Thread

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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 

Post#1461 » by willbcocks » Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:56 am

So it's only been three games, but I don't agree with the praise that some have been giving Wall for his defense. I've seen below average defense. He keeps leaving his man, keeps gambling, and doesn't do very well on the pick-and-roll, which is imperative for a pg.

He looks like a lot of college players--a flurry of activity, but necessarily in a good way.

This is not to say that his defense won't get better, or to say that he can't be an outstanding defender one day. I just haven't seen any indication of that in these three games.

As far as pg skills, I don't think wall will ever be on the Paul/Rondo/Kidd/Nash level, but he's as good or better than anyone else in the elite pg category (Rose, Irving, Westbrook, Parker). I don't lose sleep over that part of his game.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 

Post#1462 » by JonathanJoseph » Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:08 am

willbcocks wrote:So it's only been three games, but I don't agree with the praise that some have been giving Wall for his defense. I've seen below average defense. He keeps leaving his man, keeps gambling, and doesn't do very well on the pick-and-roll, which is imperative for a pg.

He looks like a lot of college players--a flurry of activity, but necessarily in a good way.

This is not to say that his defense won't get better, or to say that he can't be an outstanding defender one day. I just haven't seen any indication of that in these three games.

As far as pg skills, I don't think wall will ever be on the Paul/Rondo/Kidd/Nash level, but he's as good or better than anyone else in the elite pg category (Rose, Irving, Westbrook, Parker). I don't lose sleep over that part of his game.


Wall's man-to-man defense is, at times, exceptional. I agree that his team defense is mediocre and he gets himself out of position looking for steals, but that gets back to my concern for his lack of basketball IQ. He seems to have no idea about the concept of winning basketball on either end of the floor. Wall's only good at the flashy stuff.

Wall would be the greatest And1 league player in their history, but I'm not so sure about his success in the NBA.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 

Post#1463 » by willbcocks » Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:36 am

I think that's unfair. Getting to the FT line and creating fast break opportunities, two things John is exceptional at, contribute to winning basketball.

There are just other parts of his game that don't contribute to winning basketball, or detract from winning basketball, and the two are pretty evenly balanced. If he wants to be an elite player, which is what he needs to become (both for the sake of our rebuild and to justify the inevitable paycheck) that balance has to swing dramatically in the positive direction.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 

Post#1464 » by dangermouse » Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:41 am

Should bring in The Glove for some pointers. He went from being a good shooter to being an elite 3pt guy by his ~4th year or so.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 

Post#1465 » by tontoz » Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:19 pm

Finally watched the Clippers game. Some of Wall's jumpers were off by a mile.

Wall's jumper isn't just bad. It would have to improve to be just bad. If there is a guard in the NBA who plays regular minutes and has a worse jumper than Wall i am not aware of it.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 

Post#1466 » by nate33 » Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:45 pm

tontoz wrote:Finally watched the Clippers game. Some of Wall's jumpers were off by a mile.

Wall's jumper isn't just bad. It would have to improve to be just bad. If there is a guard in the NBA who plays regular minutes and has a worse jumper than Wall i am not aware of it.

What's weird is that his FT% is rock solid for a guard. His set shot is solid, it's his jumper that is terrible because of the timing and his off hand being too far in front of the ball. I'm not sure if the jumper is fixable, but I do think Nivek is right that he should work on his 3-point shot.

Ultimately, the model may be Jason Kidd rather than Rondo or Westbrook. Rondo and Westbrook have developed a decent midrange jumper because their shot isn't fundamentally broke, but they don't have the accuracy to be 3-point shooters. Kidd was the other way around. He never developed a midrange jumper but did develop 3-point range, only it was a set shot.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 

Post#1467 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:04 pm

nuposse04 wrote:Are you sure Broussard wasn't asking some causticly hating RealGMers? I want to know what his sources were..."Eastern conference scout" my ass.

He does have flaws, but it isn't like they're impossibly difficult to amend.


It wasn't me. :lol:
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 

Post#1468 » by tontoz » Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:18 pm

nate33 wrote:
tontoz wrote:Finally watched the Clippers game. Some of Wall's jumpers were off by a mile.

Wall's jumper isn't just bad. It would have to improve to be just bad. If there is a guard in the NBA who plays regular minutes and has a worse jumper than Wall i am not aware of it.

What's weird is that his FT% is rock solid for a guard. His set shot is solid, it's his jumper that is terrible because of the timing and his off hand being too far in front of the ball. I'm not sure if the jumper is fixable, but I do think Nivek is right that he should work on his 3-point shot.

Ultimately, the model may be Jason Kidd rather than Rondo or Westbrook. Rondo and Westbrook have developed a decent midrange jumper because their shot isn't fundamentally broke, but they don't have the accuracy to be 3-point shooters. Kidd was the other way around. He never developed a midrange jumper but did develop 3-point range, only it was a set shot.



That is a good idea. He can't shoot a jumper but maybe he could shoot a set shot from 3. It seems like he was doing that his rookie year. I might have to start bugging him on twitter about that lol.

If they did a closeup of the backboard it would probably show Jerry West laughing at some of Wall's jumpers.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 

Post#1469 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:19 pm

miller31time wrote:I think we have to be careful when addressing Wall and his jumpshot.

Yes, the mechanics are bad but the confidence is also low. We've seen Wall become a respectable jumpshooter when his confidence is high.

Getting upset with him and coaching him not to shoot jumpers anymore (or at a limited amount) may be rushing to judgement and quashing any potential Wall may have when it comes to becoming a jumpshooting threat.


WINNER!

Wall was a better three point shooter as a rookie than Kidd. Kidd shot no better than .381 FG his first two NBA seasons. Where Wall deviated is in confidence and he was perhaps coached not to shoot the three. Going 3-42 3Pt in his second season was beyond terrible. It was like Vesely's FT shooting this season. Lack of confidence is certainly an issue, along with bad mechanics.

nate's right. Wall's shot is broken. I think he is not unlike a person who is totally clueless with math. Some people are really challenged when it comes to subjects like algebra. Something like trigonometry would blow them away with degree of difficulty. It's just not what they do well. Wall is terrific at getting to the basket but he's terrible on the perimeter.

Did Dennis Rodman ever become a complete player? Isn't he a 5-time NBA champion and HOF player.

People are bagging on Wall because his team lost to Cousins'. John choked on the FTs and he cannot shoot well from outside.

How has Tyreke Evans done since starting out a 20/5/5 player? A sophomore slump and injuries since have Tyreke's future with the Kings in doubt. Wall had if not a slump, but an uninspiring sophomore season. He's coming off an injury. People are now starting to question how good Wall is.

This is the John Wall Appreciation Thread. I stated where he shoots poorly but Wall might be so exceptionally good in a few things that like Rodman, he can still be a winner. (However, as a PG he has to be a great leader to become a great player). I think the Wizards need to add more around him for him to win OR they need to do as I have suggested in other threads before they pay him a max contract.

miller, for the time being I would tell Wall shoot the three when you're open but make sure you're as relaxed as can be. He went to Word Of God HS. I would say trust God when you shoot that even if you miss your teammates will get the rebound if you don't. I would tell Wall that J Kidd became an excellent 3Pt shooter over time and he was worse at it when he was 22 than John is. Shoot it like you think it's going in. (Crawford does this for sure!)

John is young and lacking confidence in his shot. It is hard for him to slow down and rise into that shot, too, IMO.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 

Post#1470 » by dangermouse » Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:24 pm

nate33 wrote:
tontoz wrote:Finally watched the Clippers game. Some of Wall's jumpers were off by a mile.

Wall's jumper isn't just bad. It would have to improve to be just bad. If there is a guard in the NBA who plays regular minutes and has a worse jumper than Wall i am not aware of it.

What's weird is that his FT% is rock solid for a guard. His set shot is solid, it's his jumper that is terrible because of the timing and his off hand being too far in front of the ball. I'm not sure if the jumper is fixable, but I do think Nivek is right that he should work on his 3-point shot.

Ultimately, the model may be Jason Kidd rather than Rondo or Westbrook. Rondo and Westbrook have developed a decent midrange jumper because their shot isn't fundamentally broke, but they don't have the accuracy to be 3-point shooters. Kidd was the other way around. He never developed a midrange jumper but did develop 3-point range, only it was a set shot.


Just an observation, but ive noticed Wall tends to hit more on those half-stepback jumpers moving to his right from the elbow of the keyway. Usually happens late in the clock. At least it seems that way to me.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 

Post#1471 » by Dark Faze » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:17 pm

I was at the first game Wall was back. Haven't seen the others, but his defense in the Hawks game was damn near error free. I was amazed by his man D in that one.

And after watching that Lakers game last night, I was actually thinking that "Man I'm glad we have John Wall", just seeing Nash struggle to penetrate and play defense showed how much we underrated what John brings to the table.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 

Post#1472 » by fishercob » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:17 pm

nate33 wrote:Everything was right about the article except the part about Wall being shoot first and pass second. That's absurd. Yes, Wall can't shoot. Yes, Wall is a straight line runner. Yes, Wall isn't the greatest decision maker. But not a PG? That's just stupid.

As we've discussed before, for Wall, it all boils down to his jumper. If he can get good enough to force teams to come around on top of the pick, Wall can be elite. If defenders can go under the screen, Wall will never be more than a 2nd tier PG. It's that simple.

The troubling thing is that his form barely looks any better. His shot is broken.


See, I disagree. While I'd obviously like to see his jumper improve, his decision-making and turnovers are an even bigger concern for me. Look at the career Andre Miller has had with essentially no jumper, and he's the polar opposite of Wall athletically. But anyway you slice it, John has a ton of work to do.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 

Post#1473 » by nate33 » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:41 pm

fishercob wrote:
nate33 wrote:Everything was right about the article except the part about Wall being shoot first and pass second. That's absurd. Yes, Wall can't shoot. Yes, Wall is a straight line runner. Yes, Wall isn't the greatest decision maker. But not a PG? That's just stupid.

As we've discussed before, for Wall, it all boils down to his jumper. If he can get good enough to force teams to come around on top of the pick, Wall can be elite. If defenders can go under the screen, Wall will never be more than a 2nd tier PG. It's that simple.

The troubling thing is that his form barely looks any better. His shot is broken.


See, I disagree. While I'd obviously like to see his jumper improve, his decision-making and turnovers are an even bigger concern for me. Look at the career Andre Miller has had with essentially no jumper, and he's the polar opposite of Wall athletically. But anyway you slice it, John has a ton of work to do.

Andre Miller has a good midrange game, just not out beyond 18 feet.

I think Wall's turnover problems will go away if he develops a jumper. The defense will have to play him honestly and it will open up more driving lanes and passing lanes.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 

Post#1474 » by GhostsOfGil » Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:11 pm

willbcocks wrote:So it's only been three games, but I don't agree with the praise that some have been giving Wall for his defense. I've seen below average defense. He keeps leaving his man, keeps gambling, and doesn't do very well on the pick-and-roll, which is imperative for a pg.

He looks like a lot of college players--a flurry of activity, but necessarily in a good way.

This is not to say that his defense won't get better, or to say that he can't be an outstanding defender one day. I just haven't seen any indication of that in these three games.


His first game, his defense was phenomenal. Been a slippery slope downwards since then.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 

Post#1475 » by Illmatic21 » Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:02 pm

^Granted, he just came back from injury. When he's at full strength I don't think we'll be complaining about his defense.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 

Post#1476 » by Upper Decker » Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:10 pm

While I don't think anyone can defense Wall's decision making during the past two seasons I don't think his decision making has been bad thus far this season--granted 3 games so small sample size. I think he's done a pretty good job reading the PnR with Nene and making high-quality difficult passes, as well as, deciding when to attack and finding open shooters, like he did with Webster and Beal in the 4th.

It's easy for anyone to look like a poor decision maker when they're on the floor with both Vesely and Ariza. Neither are even slightly respected by the opposition. All eyes are on him so no driving lanes, no passing lanes, and the offense totally stalls. It's not Walls fault Vesely is worthless and bogs down the half-court offense. How does that make him a bad decision maker?
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 

Post#1477 » by miller31time » Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:54 pm

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