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Official John Wall Appreciation Thread

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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 

Post#1421 » by montestewart » Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:38 pm

AFM wrote:His assists in the SAC game were sick. I thought I was watching Rondo send a perfect bounce pass to a cutting Garnett rather than Wall to Nene. That pass to Nene for the and 1 was awesome. Great passes to the corner 3's for Beal (and Ariza but he missed all of his open looks). He really is a pure PG in a scoring PG's body.

Rondo, rather than Westbrook or Rose, is more the model he should try for.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 

Post#1422 » by jivelikenice » Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:39 pm

AFM wrote:His assists in the SAC game were sick. I thought I was watching Rondo send a perfect bounce pass to a cutting Garnett rather than Wall to Nene. That pass to Nene for the and 1 was awesome. Great passes to the corner 3's for Beal (and Ariza but he missed all of his open looks). He really is a pure PG in a scoring PG's body.


That's the issue though..ppl seem to want a scorign pg. I love how he's approached the game since he returned. Attacking the rim, making the right passes, and he is at least willing to shoot the J. Wall & Beal will be one of the top backcourts in the league in the very near future.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 

Post#1423 » by AFM » Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:41 pm

Yes. Although he has the size and athleticism of Westbrook/Rose. Rondo has a very crafty game to make up for his diminutive size. There's no reason John can't be better than Rondo in a few years with his natural athletic ability if he plays to his strengths.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 

Post#1424 » by montestewart » Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:54 pm

AFM wrote:Yes. Although he has the size and athleticism of Westbrook/Rose. Rondo has a very crafty game to make up for his diminutive size. There's no reason John can't be better than Rondo in a few years with his natural athletic ability if he plays to his strengths.

Wall's size and speed would still allow him to get to the rim and cover taller players, but if he could mimic the way Rondo can lead an offense without a decent shot, he would be much more effective.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 

Post#1425 » by tontoz » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:05 pm

Rondo actually did develop a decent shot though. Over the past 2 seasons he shot 40% on long 2s, 10% better than Wall. This year Rondo is shooting 49% on long 2s.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 

Post#1426 » by miller31time » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:06 pm

I think we have to be careful when addressing Wall and his jumpshot.

Yes, the mechanics are bad but the confidence is also low. We've seen Wall become a respectable jumpshooter when his confidence is high.

Getting upset with him and coaching him not to shoot jumpers anymore (or at a limited amount) may be rushing to judgement and quashing any potential Wall may have when it comes to becoming a jumpshooting threat.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 

Post#1427 » by Halcyon » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:06 pm

Rondo's style of play works when you have enough scorers though. I think Wall's being forced into a scorer since they don't really have great scorers on the team, like Rondo did at the beginning of his ascent. He's not a natural scorer at all, but on this team, he has to put on a few more hats than Rondo did.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 

Post#1428 » by montestewart » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:18 pm

Halcyon wrote:Rondo's style of play works when you have enough scorers though. I think Wall's being forced into a scorer since they don't really have great scorers on the team, like Rondo did at the beginning of his ascent. He's not a natural scorer at all, but on this team, he has to put on a few more hats than Rondo did.

Yes, and many (maybe most) of us assumed that any major moves would involve getting scorers rather than "veterans" to complement Wall. (Just like I thought there would be more big moves after #5 for Miller/Foye. Fool me twice.) Wall might develop a decent jumpshot, just like Rondo, Kidd, and others have, but he's had a summer, a preseason, and 2+ months of the regular season. It looks pretty much the same to me. How long to wait, and what should he/they/we do in the meantime?
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 

Post#1429 » by MDStar » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:37 pm

Admittedly, I am not a #'s guy but I see a lot around here that PER and other advanced metrics are the way that we are supposed to evaluate players.

In the 3 games that he has returned, he has posted the following #'s.
PPG APG RPG PER MIN TS%
13.3 6.7 2.0 24.54 22.3 .493

For a guy who still can't really shoot, he's still seems like a damn good player that we are lucky to have.

Honestly, I really believed that he worked on his shot and that probably it is better than he's currently showing. But when you're pressing, trying to prove the world wrong, getting back in shape, not to mention having the pressure of being the franchise player of a terrible team, that he may just have reverted back to whats comfortable and just needs to slow down a bit. He's not a shooter, never was and never will be. So for him, he has to really think about what he's doing when he's taking a jumpshot. To me, it just really seems like he trying to do too much but by the end of the season, we will see the improvement that we all hoped and expected.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 

Post#1430 » by GhostsOfGil » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:03 pm

I always felt that Walls stats over rate his over all impact. Right now his per 36 numbers are 22 and 11 with a PER of 24. :o

Even if he sustains those numbers, I'd still rate him in the 10-15 range (pgs only) in terms of overall impact.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 

Post#1431 » by Nivek » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:14 pm

Keep in mind that a player can boost his PER by taking more shots.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 

Post#1432 » by nuposse04 » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:28 pm

I wonder what would be more beneficial to John, and average mid range game, or an above average 3 pt shot. Sometimes I think with his speed a 3 point shot would do more for him as players would actually close out on him and he could just blow by them.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 

Post#1433 » by Nivek » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:43 pm

nuposse04 wrote:I wonder what would be more beneficial to John, and average mid range game, or an above average 3 pt shot. Sometimes I think with his speed a 3 point shot would do more for him as players would actually close out on him and he could just blow by them.


That's easy -- 3pt shot. The mid-range game is a sucker's bet, unless you're shooting 50% -- well, really 52% this season.

League average FG% on 2pt shots not at-rim: .378. League average 3pt%: .347. But, the 3pt shot obviously comes with that extra point. efg on 3pt shots: .520. Wall having an average 3pt shot would be far more valuable than even having a GOOD mid-range game.

And before folks start with the argument that 16-23 feet is really long-range and that mid-range is really 10-15 feet...league average from 10-15 feet is .400 this season. Average from 3-9 feet is .364.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 

Post#1434 » by CntOutSmrtCrazy » Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:07 pm

If he continues to put up similar numbers with increased minutes how in the hell can you say their are 10 betters PGs than Wall? That doesn't even factor in his defense.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 

Post#1435 » by dobrojim » Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:09 pm

how did DAL beat MIA (2011) and MIA beat OKC (2012)

by hitting 3s in the Finals
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 

Post#1436 » by nuposse04 » Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:13 pm

Nivek wrote:
nuposse04 wrote:I wonder what would be more beneficial to John, and average mid range game, or an above average 3 pt shot. Sometimes I think with his speed a 3 point shot would do more for him as players would actually close out on him and he could just blow by them.


That's easy -- 3pt shot. The mid-range game is a sucker's bet, unless you're shooting 50% -- well, really 52% this season.

League average FG% on 2pt shots not at-rim: .378. League average 3pt%: .347. But, the 3pt shot obviously comes with that extra point. efg on 3pt shots: .520. Wall having an average 3pt shot would be far more valuable than even having a GOOD mid-range game.

And before folks start with the argument that 16-23 feet is really long-range and that mid-range is really 10-15 feet...league average from 10-15 feet is .400 this season. Average from 3-9 feet is .364.


Clearly confidence is an issue for him. Although, I'm glad he's still attempting shots from long range, especially when the shot clock is running down. I don't want to say conditioning is a reason why his jumpshot has been off so far, but I'm willing to wait a couple weeks before showing signs of concern. He shot .296 from 3 pt land his rookie year...you would think...it shouldn't be that hard for him to get that up to say 34%.

Hell if Wall could shoot like AJ Price at this point I think he's be nightmare for any defense in this league.
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 

Post#1437 » by Nivek » Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:33 pm

I argued last season both here AND directly to folks in the Wizards front office that Wall shouldn't have stopped shooting the 3pt shot. He was just as bad on long 2s, but didn't get the bonus point.

He'd have been better off last season shooting 25% from 3pt range than 30% on long 2s.

Price this season is actually a good cast to look at. He's shooting .280 on long 2s and .325 from 3pt range. Obviously that 3pt range is less than ideal, but the efg is .488 on those shots. League average efg is .491. Wizards efg is .453.

Price is still taking too many mid-range shots for my liking, but he at least has a better mix of 3s and long 2s (80 3pt attempts and 40 long 2pt attempts).
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 

Post#1438 » by FAH1223 » Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:17 pm

I wish he shot the 3 more... he shot it a little bit his rookie year
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 

Post#1439 » by GhostsOfGil » Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:40 pm

CntOutSmrtCrazy wrote:If he continues to put up similar numbers with increased minutes how in the hell can you say their are 10 betters PGs than Wall? That doesn't even factor in his defense.


Based off how he's played in the 3 games so far, would you rate his impact in the top 10 (PGs only)?
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Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 

Post#1440 » by CntOutSmrtCrazy » Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:19 pm

That's a ridiculous question. I wouldn't make a judgement of a player based on a him coming back from 4 months of injury, only having played 3 games. Frankly, I think he's played great in limited minutes since his return, save two missed free throws. Yes the jumper has me a bit worried, but give him some time to get comfortable.

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