Official John Wall Appreciation Thread

[nate33]

Everything was right about the article except the part about Wall being shoot first and pass second. That's absurd. Yes, Wall can't shoot. Yes, Wall is a straight line runner. Yes, Wall isn't the greatest decision maker. But not a PG? That's just stupid.

As we've discussed before, for Wall, it all boils down to his jumper. If he can get good enough to force teams to come around on top of the pick, Wall can be elite. If defenders can go under the screen, Wall will never be more than a 2nd tier PG. It's that simple.

The troubling thing is that his form barely looks any better. His shot is broken.

[AFM]

Yeah. The Steve Francis comparison was boggling.

[Illmatic21]

I can excuse most of the asinine comments in that article as coming from people who just don't bother watching Wizards games. But to call him a shoot first PG? That's actually hilarious. Wall himself would laugh at that, he can't even shoot.

Since when does a shoot first PG average 14 attempts per game (to go with 8 assists)?

[hands11]

http://bkref.com/tiny/46551

Comparison to Rondo, The Glove, and Kidd 2nd years.

Personally, I'm not really concerned with this jump shot and I don't think it is the determining factor for him. It will come in time. He is a good FT shooter. Eventually he will extend his range.

Wall being great or better or whatever you want to call it is going to start happening this year and its going to happening from experience, hard work and greatly based on his having better options.

He is a pass first PG who seemed to be focused on being a great defender. He talks with the Glove. He can one man fast break and hit open targets. He can drive and finish. He gets to the line a lot. More then any of those other 3 did in their second years. He is a great passer.

When you look at what he did last year with no catch and shoot options and Nene for only the end of the year....

Just wait and see what he does with some options.

His numbers look good when you compare them to other great PGs in their 2nd years.

[JonathanJoseph]

Geez. Whether it's me or some unnamed NBA scouts, a lot of denial and shooting the messenger going on here. Needless to say, a nerve was touched. Honestly, I think even less of Wall than the unnamed scouts.

As for the shoot first criticism, I've never seen a PG who goes "1-on-5" more than Wall, ever, on any level of basketball. Next game, count the number of times that Wall is the only player to touch the ball on offense before a shot goes up. It's something that just doesn't happen with other PGs who understand that their 1st job is to run the offense, not to score.

[willbcocks]

So it's only been three games, but I don't agree with the praise that some have been giving Wall for his defense. I've seen below average defense. He keeps leaving his man, keeps gambling, and doesn't do very well on the pick-and-roll, which is imperative for a pg.

He looks like a lot of college players--a flurry of activity, but necessarily in a good way.

This is not to say that his defense won't get better, or to say that he can't be an outstanding defender one day. I just haven't seen any indication of that in these three games.

As far as pg skills, I don't think wall will ever be on the Paul/Rondo/Kidd/Nash level, but he's as good or better than anyone else in the elite pg category (Rose, Irving, Westbrook, Parker). I don't lose sleep over that part of his game.

[JonathanJoseph]

So it's only been three games, but I don't agree with the praise that some have been giving Wall for his defense. I've seen below average defense. He keeps leaving his man, keeps gambling, and doesn't do very well on the pick-and-roll, which is imperative for a pg.

He looks like a lot of college players--a flurry of activity, but necessarily in a good way.

This is not to say that his defense won't get better, or to say that he can't be an outstanding defender one day. I just haven't seen any indication of that in these three games.

As far as pg skills, I don't think wall will ever be on the Paul/Rondo/Kidd/Nash level, but he's as good or better than anyone else in the elite pg category (Rose, Irving, Westbrook, Parker). I don't lose sleep over that part of his game.

Wall's man-to-man defense is, at times, exceptional. I agree that his team defense is mediocre and he gets himself out of position looking for steals, but that gets back to my concern for his lack of basketball IQ. He seems to have no idea about the concept of winning basketball on either end of the floor. Wall's only good at the flashy stuff.

Wall would be the greatest And1 league player in their history, but I'm not so sure about his success in the NBA.

[willbcocks]

I think that's unfair. Getting to the FT line and creating fast break opportunities, two things John is exceptional at, contribute to winning basketball.

There are just other parts of his game that don't contribute to winning basketball, or detract from winning basketball, and the two are pretty evenly balanced. If he wants to be an elite player, which is what he needs to become (both for the sake of our rebuild and to justify the inevitable paycheck) that balance has to swing dramatically in the positive direction.

[dangermouse]

Should bring in The Glove for some pointers. He went from being a good shooter to being an elite 3pt guy by his ~4th year or so.

[tontoz]

Finally watched the Clippers game. Some of Wall's jumpers were off by a mile.

Wall's jumper isn't just bad. It would have to improve to be just bad. If there is a guard in the NBA who plays regular minutes and has a worse jumper than Wall i am not aware of it.

[nate33]

Finally watched the Clippers game. Some of Wall's jumpers were off by a mile.

Wall's jumper isn't just bad. It would have to improve to be just bad. If there is a guard in the NBA who plays regular minutes and has a worse jumper than Wall i am not aware of it.

What's weird is that his FT% is rock solid for a guard. His set shot is solid, it's his jumper that is terrible because of the timing and his off hand being too far in front of the ball. I'm not sure if the jumper is fixable, but I do think Nivek is right that he should work on his 3-point shot.

Ultimately, the model may be Jason Kidd rather than Rondo or Westbrook. Rondo and Westbrook have developed a decent midrange jumper because their shot isn't fundamentally broke, but they don't have the accuracy to be 3-point shooters. Kidd was the other way around. He never developed a midrange jumper but did develop 3-point range, only it was a set shot.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Are you sure Broussard wasn't asking some causticly hating RealGMers? I want to know what his sources were..."Eastern conference scout" my ass.

He does have flaws, but it isn't like they're impossibly difficult to amend.

It wasn't me.

[tontoz]

Finally watched the Clippers game. Some of Wall's jumpers were off by a mile.

Wall's jumper isn't just bad. It would have to improve to be just bad. If there is a guard in the NBA who plays regular minutes and has a worse jumper than Wall i am not aware of it.

What's weird is that his FT% is rock solid for a guard. His set shot is solid, it's his jumper that is terrible because of the timing and his off hand being too far in front of the ball. I'm not sure if the jumper is fixable, but I do think Nivek is right that he should work on his 3-point shot.

Ultimately, the model may be Jason Kidd rather than Rondo or Westbrook. Rondo and Westbrook have developed a decent midrange jumper because their shot isn't fundamentally broke, but they don't have the accuracy to be 3-point shooters. Kidd was the other way around. He never developed a midrange jumper but did develop 3-point range, only it was a set shot.

That is a good idea. He can't shoot a jumper but maybe he could shoot a set shot from 3. It seems like he was doing that his rookie year. I might have to start bugging him on twitter about that lol.

If they did a closeup of the backboard it would probably show Jerry West laughing at some of Wall's jumpers.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I think we have to be careful when addressing Wall and his jumpshot.

Yes, the mechanics are bad but the confidence is also low. We've seen Wall become a respectable jumpshooter when his confidence is high.

Getting upset with him and coaching him not to shoot jumpers anymore (or at a limited amount) may be rushing to judgement and quashing any potential Wall may have when it comes to becoming a jumpshooting threat.

WINNER!

Wall was a better three point shooter as a rookie than Kidd. Kidd shot no better than .381 FG his first two NBA seasons. Where Wall deviated is in confidence and he was perhaps coached not to shoot the three. Going 3-42 3Pt in his second season was beyond terrible. It was like Vesely's FT shooting this season. Lack of confidence is certainly an issue, along with bad mechanics.

nate's right. Wall's shot is broken. I think he is not unlike a person who is totally clueless with math. Some people are really challenged when it comes to subjects like algebra. Something like trigonometry would blow them away with degree of difficulty. It's just not what they do well. Wall is terrific at getting to the basket but he's terrible on the perimeter.

Did Dennis Rodman ever become a complete player? Isn't he a 5-time NBA champion and HOF player.

People are bagging on Wall because his team lost to Cousins'. John choked on the FTs and he cannot shoot well from outside.

How has Tyreke Evans done since starting out a 20/5/5 player? A sophomore slump and injuries since have Tyreke's future with the Kings in doubt. Wall had if not a slump, but an uninspiring sophomore season. He's coming off an injury. People are now starting to question how good Wall is.

This is the John Wall Appreciation Thread. I stated where he shoots poorly but Wall might be so exceptionally good in a few things that like Rodman, he can still be a winner. (However, as a PG he has to be a great leader to become a great player). I think the Wizards need to add more around him for him to win OR they need to do as I have suggested in other threads before they pay him a max contract.

miller, for the time being I would tell Wall shoot the three when you're open but make sure you're as relaxed as can be. He went to Word Of God HS. I would say trust God when you shoot that even if you miss your teammates will get the rebound if you don't. I would tell Wall that J Kidd became an excellent 3Pt shooter over time and he was worse at it when he was 22 than John is. Shoot it like you think it's going in. (Crawford does this for sure!)

John is young and lacking confidence in his shot. It is hard for him to slow down and rise into that shot, too, IMO.

[dangermouse]

Finally watched the Clippers game. Some of Wall's jumpers were off by a mile.

Wall's jumper isn't just bad. It would have to improve to be just bad. If there is a guard in the NBA who plays regular minutes and has a worse jumper than Wall i am not aware of it.

What's weird is that his FT% is rock solid for a guard. His set shot is solid, it's his jumper that is terrible because of the timing and his off hand being too far in front of the ball. I'm not sure if the jumper is fixable, but I do think Nivek is right that he should work on his 3-point shot.

Ultimately, the model may be Jason Kidd rather than Rondo or Westbrook. Rondo and Westbrook have developed a decent midrange jumper because their shot isn't fundamentally broke, but they don't have the accuracy to be 3-point shooters. Kidd was the other way around. He never developed a midrange jumper but did develop 3-point range, only it was a set shot.

Just an observation, but ive noticed Wall tends to hit more on those half-stepback jumpers moving to his right from the elbow of the keyway. Usually happens late in the clock. At least it seems that way to me.