Wall > Rose?

[TheHottestHand]

Is Wall the freshest of them all?

[nate33]

It's pointless to discuss it now. Let's wait until Wall plays some games first.

[DCsOwn]

It's pointless to discuss it now. Let's wait until Wall plays some games first.

Agreed.

We can, however, compare Wall and Rose when they were prospects about to enter the league. In that case, recent draftee Rose and contemporary John Wall are pretty even in terms of overall impact on a game. There, of course, are areas of the game that Rose held an advantage over Wall, even at that nascent stage in his career (strength, first step quickness (slightly), ability to finish at the rim and the ability to generate offense in the half court set), and there are aspects of the game that Wall was superior to Rose coming out of college (height , length, defensive prowess, transition ability (slightly), passing and vision.) Other areas of their games are a wash at that stage imo (shooting, overall athletic ability (leaping, agility, speed), overall intangibles.) A GM's predilection would've determined who he would've selected if they had both been in the same draft pool I think.

[MJG]

Sure, maybe.

[sfam]

It's pointless to discuss it now. Let's wait until Wall plays some games first.

While logical, if we went with this rationale for everything it relates to, we'd have about 14% of the offseason posts left in this forum.

[Legendary 33]

It's pointless to discuss it now. Let's wait until Wall plays some games first.

Agreed.

We can, however, compare Wall and Rose when they were prospects about to enter the league. In that case, recent draftee Rose and contemporary John Wall are pretty even in terms of overall impact on a game. There, of course, are areas of the game that Rose held an advantage over Wall, even at that nascent stage in his career (strength, first step quickness (slightly), ability to finish at the rim and the ability to generate offense in the half court set), and there are aspects of the game that Wall was superior to Rose coming out of college (height , length, defensive prowess, transition ability (slightly), passing and vision.) Other areas of their games are a wash at that stage imo (shooting, overall athletic ability (leaping, agility, speed), overall intangibles.) A GM's predilection would've determined who he would've selected if they had both been in the same draft pool I think.

+1

[alucryts]

It's pointless to discuss it now. Let's wait until Wall plays some games first.

Agreed.

We can, however, compare Wall and Rose when they were prospects about to enter the league. In that case, recent draftee Rose and contemporary John Wall are pretty even in terms of overall impact on a game. There, of course, are areas of the game that Rose held an advantage over Wall, even at that nascent stage in his career (strength, first step quickness (slightly), ability to finish at the rim and the ability to generate offense in the half court set), and there are aspects of the game that Wall was superior to Rose coming out of college (height , length, defensive prowess, transition ability (slightly), passing and vision.) Other areas of their games are a wash at that stage imo (shooting, overall athletic ability (leaping, agility, speed), overall intangibles.) A GM's predilection would've determined who he would've selected if they had both been in the same draft pool I think.

you have won this thread. congratulations. there is literally nothing to be added here lmao

[lovecats]

It's pointless to discuss it now. Let's wait until Wall plays some games first.

Agreed.

We can, however, compare Wall and Rose when they were prospects about to enter the league. In that case, recent draftee Rose and contemporary John Wall are pretty even in terms of overall impact on a game. There, of course, are areas of the game that Rose held an advantage over Wall, even at that nascent stage in his career (strength, first step quickness (slightly), ability to finish at the rim and the ability to generate offense in the half court set), and there are aspects of the game that Wall was superior to Rose coming out of college (height , length, defensive prowess, transition ability (slightly), passing and vision.) Other areas of their games are a wash at that stage imo (shooting, overall athletic ability (leaping, agility, speed), overall intangibles.) A GM's predilection would've determined who he would've selected if they had both been in the same draft pool I think.

At least, we can see that Rose does not develope to be a super star. And wall has the chance to be.

[Wizardspride]

It's pointless to discuss it now. Let's wait until Wall plays some games first.

Agreed.

We can, however, compare Wall and Rose when they were prospects about to enter the league. In that case, recent draftee Rose and contemporary John Wall are pretty even in terms of overall impact on a game. There, of course, are areas of the game that Rose held an advantage over Wall, even at that nascent stage in his career (strength, first step quickness (slightly), ability to finish at the rim and the ability to generate offense in the half court set), and there are aspects of the game that Wall was superior to Rose coming out of college (height , length, defensive prowess, transition ability (slightly), passing and vision.) Other areas of their games are a wash at that stage imo (shooting, overall athletic ability (leaping, agility, speed), overall intangibles.) A GM's predilection would've determined who he would've selected if they had both been in the same draft pool I think.

At least, we can see that Rose does not develope to be a super star. And wall has the chance to be.

Imo, they both have superstar potential.

[doclinkin]

Measurables:
Rose: 6' 2.5" in shoes; Weight 196; Wingspan 6' 8"; Reach 8'2.5"; No step Vert 34.5; Max vert 40"; Lane agility 11.69 secs; 3/4 Court sprint 3.05 secs

Wall: 6' 4" in shoes; Weight 196; Wingspan 6' 9.5"; Reach 8' 5.5"; No step Vert 30.0 ; Max vert 39"; Lane agility 10.84 secs; 3/4 Court sprint 3.14 secs

Narrower of frame Wall is less sturdy than Rose, which may be concerning since his attacking style and lack of pure jumper tends to lead him into contact. Still he seems to have a strong core, appearing more willowy than he is due to the long arms vs narrow shoulders. Raw athleticism is comparable, Wall's long arms and quick feet ought to translate to superior defense against quick guards; Rose may prove tougher to back down by post-up guards. Both are fast as all get-out in a dead sprint.

Freshman year stats are similar.
The two had nearly identical shooting ratios,
TS% for both: .56%
eFG% Rose .52, Wall .50.
Wall posted slightly higher rate of Free Throws per FG attempt (.53 vs .47 -- still pretty good for both). Rose showed the better outside shot.

Passing rates showed Wall to be the more willing passer (Assists per FG attempt Wall: .55; Rose: .43).
Rose proved the more efficient passer (ast/to rate 1.77 Rose vs 1.62 for Wall).

Both compared well to other high usage freshman PGs over the past 5 years. Stef Curry outranked most. Ty Lawson posts well. JWall, DRose, and Tyreke Evans are all in the conversation. JWall posts slightly lower than the others in most efficiency metrics (PER, WS/40) due to the slightly elevated TOs and the low rebound rate.

[rosebulls4life]

i really like john wall but i got 1 comment for that guy who said rose will not be a superstar and john wall is


derrick rose
season 1 rookie of year 16 pts 6 ast 4 rbs
season 2 allstar 21 pts 6 ast 4 rbs

he came in our best player and got us to playoffs both yrs he knows how to run a team cause hes had weak ones.....this year expect huge leaps specially in ast and deeper playoff runs.

with that said i hope your organization do good with your kid and build around well but first step is getting rid of arenas

[Dr Genius]

They both have the physical tools to be superstars in this league. But, they need the right mindset and work ethic to get there.

I don't know much about Wall yet, so I can't make a def statement about his chances. However, after having watched Rose for the past two seasons, he def does have the right mindset and work ethic to get to that superstar level.

[no D in Hibachi]

i really like john wall but i got 1 comment for that guy who said rose will not be a superstar and john wall is


derrick rose
season 1 rookie of year 16 pts 6 ast 4 rbs
season 2 allstar 21 pts 6 ast 4 rbs

he came in our best player and got us to playoffs both yrs he knows how to run a team cause hes had weak ones.....this year expect huge leaps specially in ast and deeper playoff runs.

with that said i hope your organization do good with your kid and build around well but first step is getting rid of arenas

I don't think PPG will be a good metrics for Wall to Rose to Evans comparisons. Washington has two scorers on the team better than anyone on the Bulls by a mile, sans Rose. The best two scorers the last few seasons on the Bulls teams were Deng and a horribly inefficient Salmons before he was traded for Joe Alexander. Arenas and Blatche are much more advanced scorers, which will severely limit Walls attempts. In fact, I think it will be a detriment to the team if Wall is 1st or 2nd in FGA's for the Wiz.

[God Squad]

Rose is better than Wall. From what I KNOW Rose can defend the best of pgs. Wall has yet to defend any NBA ready guards. But I believe they will be quite similar on offence. Except Rose will have a far better shot compared to Wall..

[Wizardspride]

i really like john wall but i got 1 comment for that guy who said rose will not be a superstar and john wall is


derrick rose
season 1 rookie of year 16 pts 6 ast 4 rbs
season 2 allstar 21 pts 6 ast 4 rbs

he came in our best player and got us to playoffs both yrs he knows how to run a team cause hes had weak ones.....this year expect huge leaps specially in ast and deeper playoff runs.

with that said i hope your organization do good with your kid and build around well but first step is getting rid of arenas

I don't think PPG will be a good metrics for Wall to Rose to Evans comparisons. Washington has two scorers on the team better than anyone on the Bulls by a mile, sans Rose. The best two scorers the last few seasons on the Bulls teams were Deng and a horribly inefficient Salmons before he was traded for Joe Alexander. Arenas and Blatche are much more advanced scorers, which will severely limit Walls attempts. In fact, I think it will be a detriment to the team if Wall is 1st or 2nd in FGA's for the Wiz.

Don't forget Josh Howard.

[Legendary 33]

I can say with utter confidence that they both have potential to be top 5 players in the league, and should be the two best PG's in the league in their primes.

[no D in Hibachi]

Rose is better than Wall. From what I KNOW Rose can defend the best of pgs. Wall has yet to defend any NBA ready guards. But I believe they will be quite similar on offence. Except Rose will have a far better shot compared to Wall..

This is the worst argument in the world. No **** he has yet to defend any NBA ready guards. He's never bleepin played in the NBA. It's like Knick fans saying Ray Felton is better than Wall because Wall has never played in the NBA and Felton has.

[Dat2U]

I don't think the two a really comparable. They are different players although they both display elite athleticism for their position. Rose I think really compares favorbly with Steve Francis. Now this is not a bad comparison, I'm not knocking Rose. Francis was heckuva player his first 6 years in the league before injuries & attitude took their toll. But Francis was more a lead guard than a true PG and I feel the same way about Rose. Both had a unique combo of strength & athleticism to overwhelm opposing PGs and consistently get into the lane to create or finish at the rim. Francis may have been a touch better as an outside shooter but both mainly excelled from mid-range and in.

With Wall, its hard to find a comparison for him but I definitely see a guy who is PG first and a scorer 2nd. He just seems to have the mentality of running a team. Whereas Francis & Rose had to learn when to pick there spots & when to get their teammates involved, that just seems to come naturally for Wall. He some instinctive traits that the others don't. He's more Deron Williams or Chris Paul than Rose. But honestly he's not like them either. Wall really doesn't have a true comparable.

[verbal8]

With Wall, its hard to find a comparison for him but I definitely see a guy who is PG first and a scorer 2nd. He just seems to have the mentality of running a team. Whereas Francis & Rose had to learn when to pick there spots & when to get their teammates involved, that just seems to come naturally for Wall. He some instinctive traits that the others don't. He's more Deron Williams or Chris Paul than Rose. But honestly he's not like them either. Wall really doesn't have a true comparable.

I think a young Jason Kidd may the closest comparison. Wall has the tools to be a defensive threat and a similar leadership mentality as Kidd. His biggest weakness is a lack of a consistent jumper. One difference is that I think that Wall can still be a scorer, which Kidd never was(every season except 2 under 15 pts/36 min). I also see a mirror image of D Wade as another comparison. Wade is a great SG and scorer with very good PG skills. I can see Wall as great PG and distributor with very good scoring ability.

[doclinkin]

I don't think the two a really comparable. They are different players although they both display elite athleticism for their position. Rose I think really compares favorbly with Steve Francis. Now this is not a bad comparison, I'm not knocking Rose. Francis was heckuva player his first 6 years in the league before injuries & attitude took their toll. But Francis was more a lead guard than a true PG and I feel the same way about Rose. Both had a unique combo of strength & athleticism to overwhelm opposing PGs and consistently get into the lane to create or finish at the rim. Francis may have been a touch better as an outside shooter but both mainly excelled from mid-range and in.

With Wall, its hard to find a comparison for him but I definitely see a guy who is PG first and a scorer 2nd. He just seems to have the mentality of running a team. Whereas Francis & Rose had to learn when to pick there spots & when to get their teammates involved, that just seems to come naturally for Wall. He some instinctive traits that the others don't. He's more Deron Williams or Chris Paul than Rose. But honestly he's not like them either. Wall really doesn't have a true comparable.

I think Rajon Rondo is in a similar mold. A set-up player with a great handle, mediocre jumper but quicks and slashing attack and clutch instincts. Johnny Balls showed equivalent defensive focus in Summer ball. Rondo is somewhat stronger, but it's probable that JWall's wiry strength can develop further. As of right now (and until his jumper improves) JahWall's potential upside tops out as a more athletic Rajon Rondo. And that's really saying a mouthful.

Where he falls short in this comparison (and with JKidd especially) is that he's somewhat lacking as a rebounder right now. Mosl;ty he could get by without this emphasis, relying on Patterson and Cousins to do the work. With emphasis and muscle this can improve a ton, if not quite matching the rebound rate of Kidd/Rajon. He's got the instincts for the ball, long arms, atheticism, etc. I suspect he'll post a few trip dubs in his career.