The Amazingly Sucky Andray Blatche Thread

[closg00]

Read this and you will understand TGW why I wrote what I wrote, it will provide some context.
http://jayglassie.com/2012/04/24/the-last-straw/

[Ruzious]

Thanks for posting that, closg. I've heard Jay Glassie several times on the radio on AM 980 and wondered why I hadn't heard him for a while. He was maybe the most knowledgable media guy I ever heard who covered the Wiz. He's got credibility.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

http://www.netsdaily.com/2012/10/8/3472842/project-zero-the-rehabilitation-of-andray-blatche-going-well-for

Johnson recommended Billy King sign the 6'11" Blatche after working him out in Houston, following the same script he used with Green. While noting that Blatche has a "clean slate," he also said the Nets would work him in slowly, telling reporters, "With him, we don’t want to give him unrealistic goals. But we want to give him every opportunity to succeed and I think he’s really going to provide depth for us at the center and power forward position.

"He has pretty much a program that I have him on specifically, physically. There's some things mentally that we've talked about. Basketball on the court, off the court. He has his program. Keep me happy and then he'll be fine."

Johnson entrusted Blatche to Mario Elie, his tough-as-nails assistant. He offered public encouragement and a bit of praise. As camp began, Johnson said. "The kid has been terrific. He lost weight. He’s in phenomenal shape. And the feedback I’ve been getting from a lot of the guys (during voluntary workouts) when he’s on the floor he’s running the court well, he’s got good hands. He can shoot the ball well."

Now, the coach is basically unrestrained. Following Friday's scrimmage, Johnson cryptically told beat writers, "Brook Lopez needs to come out everyday for practice because Blatche thinks a lot of himself." Others inside said that indeed Blatche had played well on both ends of the court against Lopez. Now, Johnson is saying he "could be one of the steals of free agency."

I don't think he's a good shooter, but for the rest of that passage, I agree ...

Andray Blatche will probably have the typical response of players who leave the Wizards. With the exception of injured Gilbert Arenas, who no longer has the physical ability to perform his best, players tend to have career years once they get away from the Wizards.

Rip Hamilton was not highly-regarded by the Wizards around 10 seasons ago, when he was traded to Detroit. Ben Wallace went as an afterthought of the Wizards to Orlando; before becoming part of the Grant Hill trade to Detroit. How did those two ex-Wizards make out? Rip went on to become a focal scorer, passer, and much-improved defender on a team that won a championship and made another Finals. Big Ben became Defensive Player of the Year, but he had been an afterthought with the Bullet/Wizards. Those two were better players than Andray Blatche, but nonetheless, they reached their heights elsewhere. What about players on Andray's level? DeShawn Stevenson shot bricks worse than any guard I've seen his last season as a Wizard. He's no more talented than Andray at his position. Regardless, after DeShawn was traded by the Wizards, Rick Carlisle started him at SG on an NBA championship team. Brendan Haywood (who was a sub on the Mavs) and Caron Butler, along with Stevenson, turned their careers around in a hurray post-Wizards. I am amazed at their reversal of fortune once they got out of D.C. The three were on a 19-63 Washington in 2008-2009. Under Flip Saunder, the Wizards were 17-33 before all three were traded. After 36 wins, 99 losses, they went out in the first round of the playoffs the end of 2008-2009. In 2009-2010, Dallas went 57-25, and won the NBA title with three guys Washington cast away. All three are still prolific in the league. Blatche will have a nice career, too.

Andray Blatche no longer has to worry about being known for Lap Dance Tuesday, neck fat, being arrested, or having been shot. He's got a terrible reputation now, mostly earned. But the one thing people forget is that when in condition, he's at least an average NBA player. At his height, he is freakishly skilled as a ball handler and a passer. Andray has shown the ability to block shots early in his career. He has been a subpar finisher and of late a disinterested to poor rebounder. At the same time, he's had some awesome April performances that give a glimpse of a guy who could be a great sub on a good team.

With the Brooklyn Nets, I think Blatche is very likely going to have a nice bounceback season, just like Gerald Green. A coach like Avery Johnson can deal with him. Flip Saunders loved him some Andray Blatche. Now, Blatche will have a better group of teammates.

He is also a former Wizard now. Things will only get better for Blatche.

[payitforward]

The better Blatche is the quicker Ernie is fired.

(Ditto, btw, if Jan doesn't pan out)

[Ruzious]

Yawn. The real thing people forget is that the only time Blatche put up reasonable numbers was when the offense was run directly through him - probably moreso than any other PF in the game. And he still wasn't good enough to win with because of his poor efficiency. He's never been good, and there's zero reason to believe that will change.

[Nivek]

I don't think he's a good shooter, but for the rest of that passage, I agree ...

Andray Blatche will probably have the typical response of players who leave the Wizards. With the exception of injured Gilbert Arenas, who no longer has the physical ability to perform his best, players tend to have caree years once they get away from the Wizards:

The issue with Blatche would be WHY he performs better, if he does. From the stories out there, it sounds like he spent the summer doing what some of us have been saying for YEARS he needed to do -- humble himself, get in shape, work on his game. If he'd done that while he was a Wizard he'd still be a Wizard.

Ben Wallace went as an afterthought to Detroit.

The Wizards traded Wallace to Orlando. At the time, they wanted a "true" center so they packaged up Ben Wallace, Tim Legler, Terry Davis and Jeff McInnis for Ike Austin. Orlando then traded him a season later (along with Chucky Atkins) for Grant Hill.

That trade for Austin is/was amusing in many respects. Even Wallace out of the deal, it would have been a bad one for Washington -- McInnis played another 9 years in the NBA (as a decent backup PG and sometimes passable starter). Legler was on his last legs; Davis bounced around and actually came back to Washington for another tour of duty as a backup thug. Austin played one crummy season in Washington before moving on to play crummy seasons for other teams.

What amuses me most about the deal was the "we need to get a TRUE center" myopia. The Wizards, led by Wes Unseld -- perhaps the best unconventional center ever -- traded Wallace and others for Austin, who was supposed to be that true center. Wallace was 6-9 and 240 pounds of muscle. Austin was 6-10 and 255-275 pounds of mostly flab. Austin plays badly for Washington; meanwhile Detroit goes on to win a championship and be an elite team for several years with Wallace at center.

Rip Hamilton was not highly regarded around 10 seasons ago when he was traded to Detroit.Rip went on to become a focal scorer, passer, and much-improved defender on a team that won a championship and made another Finals.

Interesting player. He was bad defensively in Washington, but good in Detroit. Rick Carlisle said the difference was system and having Ben Wallace in the middle. I remember liking the trade for Stackhouse. I was wrong about that first because I didn't understand the importance of efficiency at that time, and second because Stackhouse was damaged goods (though no one knew it at the time).

DeShawn Stevenson shot bricks worse than any guard I've seen his last season as a Wizard. He's no more talented than Andray at his position, but Rick Carlisle started him at SG on an NBA championship team.

Best season of Stevenson's career was his first year in Washington. He was hurt his 2nd season, and he didn't have Arenas to open things up for him. He "started" in Dallas, but played just 16 minutes per game. The real SG was Jason Terry. Stevenson's defense in Dallas was good, but his offense wasn't especially considering the firepower around him. He did a decent job, but he doesn't fit your argument that players get better when they leave Washington.

...Brendan Haywood (who was a sub on the Mavs) and Caron Butler, the three turned their careers around in a hurray.

Haywood's best seasons were in Washington. His two full years in Dallas, were the least productive of his career.

Caron Butler's best seasons were also in Washington. His production dropped his last season in Washington, and then remained down in Dallas. He was bad last year for the Clippers.

Those three were part of a 19-63 Washington in 2008-2009. Under Flip Saunder, the Wizards were 17-33 with them. After 36 wins, 99 losses, they went out in the first round of the playoffs the end of 2008-2009. In 2009-2010, Dallas went 57-25, and won the NBA title with three guys Washington cast away. All three are still prolific in the league. Blatche will have a nice career, too.

You're conflating TEAM success with individual production. Each of those guys played roles on a good team, but none were primarily responsible for their team's success, and none performed better when they left Washington. They just went to a better team where they could play a role.

None of the three are prolific currently. None of the three were after leaving Washington.

Andray Blatche no longer has to worry about being known for Lap Dance Tuesday, neck fat, being arrested, or having been shot. He's got a terrible reputation now, mostly earned. But the one thing people forget is that when in condition, he's at least an average NBA player. At his height, he is freakishly skilled as a ball handler and a passer. Andray has shown the ability to block shots early in his career. He has been a subpar finisher and of late a disinterested to poor rebounder. At the same time, he's had some awesome April performances that give a glimpse of a guy who could be a great sub on a good team.

I think Blatche is very likely going to have a nice bounceback season, just like Gerald Green, with a coach like Avery Johnson. Flip Saunders loved him some Andray Blatche. Now, Blatche will have a better group of teammates. He is also a former Wizard now. Things will only get better for Blatche.

This might be the case. I hope for his sake that he's able to turn things around and be productive. He earned his way out of town, though. I'm sure there were things the Wizards could have done to help him develop and mature. Ultimately, the teacher is only as good as the student, though.

IF the stories are true, and IF the changes reported are sustained, then Blatche is being a better student and he should start to realize at least some of his potential -- a potential which has never been in dispute.

[Induveca]

Agree completely Blatche will have a solid career. The Wiz have a tendency to proclaim obvious backup/role players as future stars.....and refuse to back off that position until it implodes.

It hurts the team, the player's career, fan expectations and success of the team.

[nate33]

No matter how well Blatche plays in Brooklyn, I am at peace with the Wizards' decision to cut him.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Nivek, I woke up in the middle of the night and posted. You beat the edit. Yep, Ben went to Orlando then Detroit. Sorry for making you read what I should have caught earlier ...

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Agree completely Blatche will have a solid career. The Wiz have a tendency to proclaim obvious backup/role players as future stars.....and refuse to back off that position until it implodes.

It hurts the team, the player's career, fan expectations and success of the team.

+1

Induveca, that is exactly what is wrong with the Wizards. They have invested in the wrong players. Blatche is a guy I have always thought would be a good role player with a team like the Heat, or the Celtics, or the Lakers. The Wizards bring in Saunders, he proclaims Blatche the next KG. That was wrong from the start. Ernie gave Blatche a contract that made the Wizards go all in on a guy to carry the offense; when the only thing they should have done is make him part of the talent moving forward.

Holding that position and rewarding an average player with an above average salary; while not drafting players like Millsap and Faried, is what has put the Wizards in the shape they are in. They would rather pay top shelf for a hard-working, not-very-talented, veteran. (I agree, Nivek) They have to have a professional with a good attitude because they sunk costs into party animal, Andray. That is the Wizards way of doing things.

[LyricalRico]

Thanks for posting that, closg. I've heard Jay Glassie several times on the radio on AM 980 and wondered why I hadn't heard him for a while. He was maybe the most knowledgable media guy I ever heard who covered the Wiz. He's got credibility.

Glassie? Credible?! Ummm...were you missing the green font function?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

If you ever want to see my humbled (humiliated?) read below:

That trade for Austin is/was amusing in many respects. Even Wallace out of the deal, it would have been a bad one for Washington -- McInnis played another 9 years in the NBA (as a decent backup PG and sometimes passable starter). Legler was on his last legs; Davis bounced around and actually came back to Washington for another tour of duty as a backup thug. Austin played one crummy season in Washington before moving on to play crummy seasons for other teams.

What amuses me most about the deal was the "we need to get a TRUE center" myopia. The Wizards, led by Wes Unseld -- perhaps the best unconventional center ever -- traded Wallace and others for Austin, who was supposed to be that true center. Wallace was 6-9 and 240 pounds of muscle. Austin was 6-10 and 255-275 pounds of mostly flab. Austin plays badly for Washington; meanwhile Detroit goes on to win a championship and be an elite team for several years with Wallace at center.

I was posting on AOL back when the Ike Austin deal occurred. I think that was probably my most epic meltdown of any Wizards deal. I was absolutely livid. I remember Stats Inc had a stat that Ike Austin was the least efficient big man in the league. I knew about Ben Wallace's per-minute rebounds, blocks, and overall positive impact while he was on the court. Trading Ben Wallace was just flat out stupid, and for Ike Austin, the season he decided to go on Jenny Craig or Slim Fast….

Nivek, I didn't even consider how effective McInnis was for other teams. Ike Austin didn't even match him.

Interesting player. [Rip Hamilton} was bad defensively in Washington, but good in Detroit. Rick Carlisle said the difference was system and having Ben Wallace in the middle. I remember liking the trade for Stackhouse. I was wrong about that first because I didn't understand the importance of efficiency at that time, and second because Stackhouse was damaged goods (though no one knew it at the time).

The Stackhouse trade was probably my first RealGM "I told you so". I remember almost everyone here saying they liked the trade. I remember saying, "You don't know what you had." I felt for a while MJ was going to trade Rip away. I don't remember why I really didn't like Stackhouse at that time, but I felt Rip was getting better. He and Courtney Alexander had a promising March/April very similar to how last season the Wizard young players and recent acquisitions closed on a win streak. I thought it bode well for Rip.

Best season of Stevenson's career was his first year in Washington. He was hurt his 2nd season, and he didn't have Arenas to open things up for him. He "started" in Dallas, but played just 16 minutes per game. The real SG was Jason Terry. Stevenson's defense in Dallas was good, but his offense wasn't especially considering the firepower around him. He did a decent job, but he doesn't fit your argument that players get better when they leave Washington.

Nivek, once again you are right and I am wrong.

Stevenson didn't get better and he didn't play much in Dallas. Also, my perception of him beating Lebron's Heat in the Finals in 2011 was wrong. Stevenson harassed, talked crap, played about 16 minutes, but only had a PER of 7.2. I cannot say he got better. I can only say he enjoyed great success with Dallas. I really should have been more careful with my words.

Haywood's best seasons were in Washington. His two full years in Dallas, were the least productive of his career.

Caron Butler's best seasons were also in Washington. His production dropped his last season in Washington, and then remained down in Dallas. He was bad last year for the Clippers.

Okay, same as with Stevenson. They went to better teams.

You're conflating TEAM success with individual production. Each of those guys played roles on a good team, but none were primarily responsible for their team's success, and none performed better when they left Washington. They just went to a better team where they could play a role.

None of the three are prolific currently. None of the three were after leaving Washington.

This is starting to feel like a conversation with my dad. Can't win this one. pwned is a word my son uses…

Prolific was a bit of hyperbole. Dudes are still employed and even starting, for now, all three. Better? No, none of them got better with their new teams. Nivek is correct, per usual. ...

Good to see that something I posted Nivek might agree with:

Andray Blatche no longer has to worry about being known for Lap Dance Tuesday, neck fat, being arrested, or having been shot. He's got a terrible reputation now, mostly earned. But the one thing people forget is that when in condition, he's at least an average NBA player. At his height, he is freakishly skilled as a ball handler and a passer. Andray has shown the ability to block shots early in his career. He has been a subpar finisher and of late a disinterested to poor rebounder. At the same time, he's had some awesome April performances that give a glimpse of a guy who could be a great sub on a good team.

I think Blatche is very likely going to have a nice bounceback season, just like Gerald Green, with a coach like Avery Johnson. Flip Saunders loved him some Andray Blatche. Now, Blatche will have a better group of teammates. He is also a former Wizard now. Things will only get better for Blatche.

This might be the case. I hope for his sake that he's able to turn things around and be productive. He earned his way out of town, though. I'm sure there were things the Wizards could have done to help him develop and mature. Ultimately, the teacher is only as good as the student, though.

IF the stories are true, and IF the changes reported are sustained, then Blatche is being a better student and he should start to realize at least some of his potential -- a potential which has never been in dispute.

Blatche did that as 7-Day Dray. His only challenge on the court will be to remain injury free. I am pretty sure his play is no fluke. Of course, he cannot afford any missteps off the court.

[Nivek]

The concern I'd have if I was running a team and considering adding Blatche is that even in that 7-Day Dray, just got the starting job, hey look what I can do mode, he was STILL inefficient on offense. I don't think I have that spreadsheet anymore where I did the math, but his efficiency was still terrible -- he just shot more frequently.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

He's like Crawford with respect to efficiency. Not many bigs are less efficient.

Andray can maximize his productivity, and IMO be an asset to any team if his rebounding, shot blocking, and passing numbers are at their peak. When he plays team ball and does not try to be a #1, #2, or even #3 scoring option; then Andray can help a team. Nivek, he also is a bit streaky like Jordan Crawford. Every now and then Blatche will have defenders on skates. He has a Dream Shake and a host of moves. Blatche can hit a midrange shot. I suspect with better teammates he efficiency will go up.

[Zonkerbl]

Dray's above average hand-eye coordination makes him a good passer and a good finesse player around the basket. He has long arms which makes up for his lack of athleticism -- he's not a great jumper. It all adds up to about an average NBA starting PF, talent-wise, which is great for the 49th pick.

Dude seems to be prone to mental weakness. Maybe he's an alcoholic -- that would explain the inability to stay in shape -- alcohol has a lot of calories. Maybe he just parties too much. Maybe he's just LD like N1.

Maybe in his new home he'll kick out the homies that were getting him into trouble, buckle down and get his head together. It would be nice. I'm rooting for him to succeed. I never root for human beings to fail at life. That's different from, say, rooting for LeBron to fail in the playoffs. Blatche's woes aren't basketball failures, they're life failures, and I wish him the best.

[Ruzious]

Thanks for posting that, closg. I've heard Jay Glassie several times on the radio on AM 980 and wondered why I hadn't heard him for a while. He was maybe the most knowledgable media guy I ever heard who covered the Wiz. He's got credibility.

Glassie? Credible?! Ummm...were you missing the green font function?

Is there any particular reason you say that, or is that automatic when someone has the audacity to bad-mouth the genious that goes by the name of Ernest Grunfeld?

Poor Rico has Glassie confused with Classy Freddie Blassie.

[verbal8]

Maybe in his new home he'll kick out the homies that were getting him into trouble, buckle down and get his head together. It would be nice. I'm rooting for him to succeed. I never root for human beings to fail at life. That's different from, say, rooting for LeBron to fail in the playoffs. Blatche's woes aren't basketball failures, they're life failures, and I wish him the best.

It is mostly on Blatche if he is successful. I think at this point success would be defined as being a productive NBA player rather than a star. I think he would be best off if he tries to re-create his 2007-8 season. He was pretty much an average player that year usage around 20% and a PER around 15. He played every game and 20 mpg.

I think the Nets have a couple advantages. First off they are not the Wizards, so if he chooses to apply himself he does not have all the negative history he does with the Wizards. The second situation is I think in the rotations he will end up playing with Evans or Humphries as the other big a lot of the time. I think he compliments them well.

[LyricalRico]

Thanks for posting that, closg. I've heard Jay Glassie several times on the radio on AM 980 and wondered why I hadn't heard him for a while. He was maybe the most knowledgable media guy I ever heard who covered the Wiz. He's got credibility.

Glassie? Credible?! Ummm...were you missing the green font function?

Is there any particular reason you say that, or is that automatic when someone has the audacity to bad-mouth the genious that goes by the name of Ernest Grunfeld?

Poor Rico has Glassie confused with Classy Freddie Blassie.

Hey, I don't mind his opinions. People have every right to be wrong.

But he was absolutely terrible when he was on 980. I think there was a thread started with LaRon Profit got on the air and I wasn't the only one bashing Glassie.

[Nivek]

Glassie was okay, but I always thought he was kinda conventional wisdom more than anything else. He went off on Ernie and Ted in that piece.

Of the guys who have been the radio Wizards guy in recent years, I would rank them:

1. Scott Jackson
2. Laron Profit
3. Frank Hanrahan
4. Jay Glassie

I'm probably missing someone, but I'm drawing a blank right now.

[LyricalRico]

Glassie was okay, but I always thought he was kinda conventional wisdom more than anything else.

I definitely agree with the second part of that, he offered no insights or analysis to speak of. He basically echoed the opinions of whatever show had him on, which can be pretty uninformed on 980 when it comes to the Wizards.

I'd actually drop Glassie to 6th on your list:

3. Hanrahan
4. Static
5. Dead air
6. Glassie