Jordan Crawford

DaRealHibachi · Post #61 » by **DaRealHibachi** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:03 pm

RolloTommasi wrote:Talented Ballhog

I do notice Wall's assists taking a huge hit since playing with Crawford...

dobrojim · Post #62 » by **dobrojim** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:50 pm

talented ball hog isn't too far off the mark right now
however...
given the structure of the team, who else should be
shooting?

I like his swagger. His very good preseason game against
us looks less like it was a complete fluke after getting
52 in the last 2 games.

RIght now the league is adjusting to him more than him
to the league which is good for a youngster. The real
issue is what will happened halfway through next year
when the first book on him has been written. How is
he going to adjust to the league when that becomes
necessary. The kid has some game.

jimij · Post #63 » by **jimij** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:12 pm

DaRealHibachi wrote:
RolloTommasi wrote:Talented Ballhog

I do notice Wall's assists taking a huge hit since playing with Crawford...

I don't really buy this. I'd argue that his assists are taking a hit because nearly everyone on the team who can actually shoot is out injured.

I'm not sure I love the Wall/Crawford combo but I definitely wouldn't get big dollars to keep Nick around when we have Nick, Jr in Crawford here as insurance.

Illuminaire · Post #64 » by **Illuminaire** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:19 pm

Yeah - it's hard to rack up dimes when you're on the court with Seraphin, Yi, Booker, and Mo Evans.

hands11 · Post #65 » by **hands11** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:20 pm

dobrojim wrote:talented ball hog isn't too far off the mark right now
however...
given the structure of the team, who else should be
shooting?

I like his swagger. His very good preseason game against
us looks less like it was a complete fluke after getting
52 in the last 2 games.

RIght now the league is adjusting to him more than him
to the league which is good for a youngster. The real
issue is what will happened halfway through next year
when the first book on him has been written. How is
he going to adjust to the league when that becomes
necessary. The kid has some game.

I would say as a back up PG/SG, that won't be much of an issue. He is going to be a great back up because he is a blend of Wall and Nick ( a Gil type ) so he can fill in where needed in case of injury but his primary roll should be without Wall. When everyone is healthy, he will lead the second unit.

Nick has already gone through this process of team adjusting to him and plays well with Wall. So if you have that as your 1 and 2, then Crawford looks like a boat load of gravy coming off the bench and fills that hole nicely. Everyone knew Kirk wasn't going to be around forever. They cashed in on him and found a more appropriate back up with upside on a cheaper contract. HOME RUN for EG holding out until they added Crawford to the trade for Kirk. Huge upgrade over Mastufa.

Wall, Nick and Crawford is a vary talented set of guards and each brings something slightly different and all are young. Now they just have to decide what the last piece will be. Do you keep Martin cheap as a three point shooter ? He shoots .400%. Or can they find a better 3 pt shooting vet at around the same price ? ( Not likely ) Or is there a pure shooter in the draft. ( adjustment period )

Martin is 26 6-7 220 and can be signed reasonably cheap. He is mature and is shooting .400 from 3. They can maybe get him signed for about 1M on maybe a 1 year contract. This could be the right move for one more year as they develop or maybe he fills the role nicely and they keep him around ala a Mason. He should be shooting nothing but 3s this off-season and working on his D. No reason to sign a 4th guard longer than 1 year at this point.

I think they are going to want to see what this looks like for at least 10 games, so as soon as Nick can get his knee well enough to finish the season, we will see.

Wall((36)/Crawford(16)
Nick(32)/Martin(12)

I like the Wall/NY pairing better with each doing what they do best. They compliment each other.
Crawford is more of a Gil stayed PG/SG so I would rather see him doing that with Martin or Nick on the wing. Martin should be grooming himself to be a pure shot up shooter with range. Wall and Crawford can handle the primary drive moves. Craw would get 12 minutes of PF/SG with Martin floating on the 3 line and 4 minutes with Wall just to fun.

The Consiglieri · Post #66 » by **The Consiglieri** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:29 pm

zaRdsAndZeRos wrote:
hands11 wrote:
zaRdsAndZeRos wrote:crawford just needs to work on his shot selection. other than that, he looks like he will be a great complement to wall in a few years. imo rookie crawford has been more impressive than rookie nick young. i may be the only one who thinks this, but moving forward, i think we should look to build with wall and crawford rather than wall and young.

And you determined this after how many games exactly ?

just my opinion mate. i remember a lot of us writing nick young off due to his poor shot selection and inability to drive to the hoop, and look how hes improved. my only point was that imo, i think crawford has more potential then rookie nick young and can be a great complement to wall, given time.

It's also worth noting that for a little while anyway, Nick's teammates included 3 or 4 experienced NBA players with all star capability, or at least legit starting capability in Arenas, Jamison, Butler and Haywood, while Crawfords been playing with teammates that are essentially manure, or totally young, inexperienced and anything but proven. I have no idea what he's going to become, nothing, quality bench player, borderline starter, good player? I have no idea. I do like that we turned a player that was going to not be involved in our future into a relatively decent pick and a player that looks at least like he belongs in the league, and may be better than just a "belong" type player.

hands11 · Post #67 » by **hands11** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:01 am

I'm not sure which direction you are taking Nick playing with more vets comparison.

If you are saying that had Nick come to the team and coach as it is now like Crawford did, that he would have played just as good, then yeah, that is true. Nicks actually played pretty well right out of the gate as I recall. His problem was trying to not shot jack and trying to fit into structure and getting benched with he didnt.

Had Nick came into this situation where he was the best scoring option with a green light, he would have been lighting up 30 and 40 pt meaningless games right out of the gate.

Post #68 » by **Rafael122** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:50 pm

Am I out of place when I suggest that the Wizards should let Young walk and put Crawford in the 2 hole? Maybe using that money we'd save on Nick, on other pieces like a center or something.

Halcyon · Post #69 » by **Halcyon** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:03 pm

Rafael122 wrote:Am I out of place when I suggest that the Wizards should let Young walk and put Crawford in the 2 hole? Maybe using that money we'd save on Nick, on other pieces like a center or something.

No, I don't disagree. Nick is definitely a better shooter, but I think Crawford can shoot at a good clip from the outside, and has shown waaay more in terms of a balanced floor game than Nick ever has. I love how Nick has developed into a more consistent player, but I think he'll be paid way more than he's worth in the open market. Crawford has shown enough for me to at least think that his upside is a fringe starter/6th man, which I think is the best role for Nick as well.

pancakes3 · Post #70 » by **pancakes3** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:32 pm

and have who back up the guards? shakur and martin? and what center can we pick up with the extra 3 million? johann petro? no thanks.

verbal8 · Post #71 » by **verbal8** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:04 pm

Halcyon wrote:
Rafael122 wrote:Am I out of place when I suggest that the Wizards should let Young walk and put Crawford in the 2 hole? Maybe using that money we'd save on Nick, on other pieces like a center or something.

No, I don't disagree. Nick is definitely a better shooter, but I think Crawford can shoot at a good clip from the outside, and has shown waaay more in terms of a balanced floor game than Nick ever has. I love how Nick has developed into a more consistent player, but I think he'll be paid way more than he's worth in the open market. Crawford has shown enough for me to at least think that his upside is a fringe starter/6th man, which I think is the best role for Nick as well.

If Nick Young can be kept on a reasonable deal, the Wizards should do it. However if they have to overpay for a shooting guard, I think it would be better to overpay a vet for a season or 2(a BOYD would be ideal).

Post #72 » by **Rafael122** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:17 pm

pancakes3 wrote:and have who back up the guards? shakur and martin? and what center can we pick up with the extra 3 million? johann petro? no thanks.

That's why you have free agency and the draft. Just because Young is having a solid year doesn't mean we need to bend over and pay him an absurd amount of money. If Crawford can fill that role for $4 million less, you do it.

tontoz · Post #73 » by **tontoz** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:36 pm

Rafael122 wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:and have who back up the guards? shakur and martin? and what center can we pick up with the extra 3 million? johann petro? no thanks.

That's why you have free agency and the draft. Just because Young is having a solid year doesn't mean we need to bend over and pay him an absurd amount of money. If Crawford can fill that role for $4 million less, you do it.

Young is a career 38% shooter from 3 who can shoot off the dribble and play D. He has been doing those things since he came into the league. The spacing is bad enough in this offense without getting rid of the only 3 point threat on the team.

How is Wall going to be able to get in the lane, finish and/or set other guys up with any success if there are no shooters around him to space the floor?

The Wizards needs more scorers even with Young and Crawford. It doesn't make sense to hope to luck out in the draft or sign a free agent who would cost just as much if not more than Nick.

Dat2U · Post #74 » by **Dat2U** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:51 pm

Rafael122 wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:and have who back up the guards? shakur and martin? and what center can we pick up with the extra 3 million? johann petro? no thanks.

That's why you have free agency and the draft. Just because Young is having a solid year doesn't mean we need to bend over and pay him an absurd amount of money. If Crawford can fill that role for $4 million less, you do it.

Agreed. Young is the classic 1st option on a terrible team. Anyone remember Courtney Alexander? He was shooter, an athletic freak and not the most efficient player in the world either. He had some monster games when he had the green light to shoot.

So what happens when Nick Young no longer has that green light? Can he do enough other things to be an effective starter on a playoff contender? My guess is no right now.

If you don't see Nick as a starter on a playoff contender then he shouldn't be re-signed. The last thing a terrible team early in the rebuilding process needs to do is break the bank for guys who aren't core pieces or who aren't legit starters to build around.

Post #75 » by **nate33** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:55 pm

I want a young starting shooting guard with deadeye 3-point range. That's not Crawford. I'd like to either resign Nick Young or sign Aaron Afflalo, which ever turns out to be the better value. Crawford looks like a 3rd guard to me.

GhostsOfGil · Post #76 » by **GhostsOfGil** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:29 pm

funny thing is nick young wasnt a good 3point shooter until his final year at usc, where jordan had two solid shooting seasons in college. im not disagreeing with you, but theres still reason to think that crawford will develop into a very good 3 point shooter

NbdyBeatsTheWiz · Post #77 » by **NbdyBeatsTheWiz** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:55 pm

nate33 wrote:I want a young starting shooting guard with deadeye 3-point range. That's not Crawford. I'd like to either resign Nick Young or sign Aaron Afflalo, which ever turns out to be the better value. Crawford looks like a 3rd guard to me.

Yeah I've had my eye on Afflalo ever since I heard he's a free agent this summer. I'd take Afflalo over Young or Crawford starting at the two, with Young or Crawford backing him up. Crawford strikes me as the ideal guy to come off your bench and get large minutes backing up both Wall and whoever we have at the 2. And in my mind Afflalo > Young. He shoots a much better percentage from 3 and almost 50% from the floor overall. Plus he does the little things better, including defense. And he does all this effectively for a winning team.

I'm not knocking Young, but if he and Afflalo came at the same price tag, I'd go Afflalo.

Severn Hoos · Post #78 » by **Severn Hoos** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:38 pm

Sad part is, Young & Afflalo were available for the same price: the 16th pick in the 2007 Draft. But then Afflalo was another of those "low-ceiling role players" that we should shy away from in the first round. ;-)

dobrojim · Post #79 » by **dobrojim** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:43 pm

interesting 'debate' given the cross-town rivalry thing too.

USC vs UCLA (iirc)

tontoz · Post #80 » by **tontoz** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:02 pm

Severn Hoos wrote:Sad part is, Young & Afflalo were available for the same price: the 16th pick in the 2007 Draft. But then Afflalo was another of those "low-ceiling role players" that we should shy away from in the first round.

Not really sure why it is sad. Afflalo has had only 1 season with a PER over 11 while Nick has only 1 season with a PER less than 11. Denver gives up 3 more ppg when Afflalo is playing.